Barclaycard Fightback

[DebtFighter4Eva]

Hi,

 

I need some advise on what steps I should take to combat Barclaycard and put up a bit of a fight.

 

The Story:

 

Towards the end of 2010 I found myself in financial difficulty, my bank was hitting me hard with return payment charges and so I decided to cancel all of my direct debits and switch to paying things manually as and when I had the money. This worked and I found myself able to pay most of my debts each month, however I missed a couple of payments to Barclaycard and they sent in the dogs.

 

From mid December, right through Christmas they started calling me and at first I tried to deal with them. They wouldn't accept any of my proposals and they wouldn't accept the fact that I didn't have any money with which to improve my proposals. I then ignored the calls because it seemed pointless to have the same conversation with a different person every other day.... so they decided to increase the calls upwards of 10 times a day 7 days a week. It got to such an extent that they would fill up my voicemail and my phone operator couldn't handle the call volume and my mobile phone would actually stop receiving calls.

 

Thankfully when I moved house I never gave out my home number except to friends and family so they were only able to harrass me when I left he mobile phone on. The phone calls continued right up until the end of March begining of April (I wish I had kept a log of them all).

 

In terms of debt collection, since January the debt has been passed to Mercers, then onto Calder, then onto CSL... all of which sent various threatening letters and all of which I ignored based on the reading I have done on this forum because they are all in-house debt companies.

 

My aim through doing the ignore all in-house collectors was that the debt would be sold off to an actual DCA with whom I could negotiate a payment arrangement, stop interest and actually get the account closed.

 

Some Facts:

 

 

• This account was opened in 2002. I have retained 98% of the statements, I lost a couple here and there when moving homes, but otherwise I have them all. However the year that the account was opened leads me to beleive that they won't have the original credit agreement.
  
• I have been self-employed since 2000 until present day. This account was sold with PPI until I canceled it in 2006, I only canceled it to reduce costs as the whole PPI thing hadn't kicked off then to my knowledge. There is no way that they didn't know I was self-employed so I think I would have a valid case against them in this respect.
  
• I have not made any kind of payment on this account since my financial difficulties began. After all of their ridiculous games with phone and letter abuse they dropped to the very bottom of my list of debts. As a result of non payment, the debt has virtually doubled due to charges.
  

 

Everything was pretty quiet until a couple of weeks ago I took a call from CSL. It was an accident as I was expecting a call back from my Dad:

 

Me: Dad, how do I stop this bloody stop-cock from leaking, it's ****ing out water everywhere.

CSL: (Long pause) Um, Hi, can I speak to xxxx.

Me: Who is it?

CSL: xxx from CSL. I'm calling about...

Me: (Cuts in) Who?!?

CSL: xxx from CSL (Sounded a little bit angry). I'm calling about your Barclaycard account.

Me: Oh, your not my Dad. Sorry, I don't wish to discuss it.

CSL: Can I ask why?

Me: I don't want to and I don't have to. If you want to discuss something put it in writing.

CSL: Well we have tried that and didn't get a response. The last time we sent...

Me: (Cuts in) Try again. (Hangs up)

 

A few days later I received a formal demand for payment from Barclaycard advising me that as I haven`t complied with the default notice (I didn't get one) that the full balance is due, I would no longer be sent any statements and all the usual stuff about credit agencies.

 

Fast forward 20 days to today when I receive a formal demand from Risk Management Alternatives with pretty much the same thing as the Barclaycard letter said. The letter was not dated and there was no postmark on the envelope. It opens with "We act as agents for Barclays Bank plc trading as Barclaycard" so I am assuming that this is yet another in-house firm?

 

So I am not sure whether to put the debt in dispute by asking for my credit agreement or if I should go after them for PPI (would that put it in dispute). Should I send letters to Barclaycard or should I use the Barclays address which is on this latest letter. There is no address shown at all for RMA.

 

Any other advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

PS: If you refer to letters please use links. I have just been in that section for the first time and it is huge!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi welcome to CAG.

 

Yes do the CCA request to CCL it costs £1 send a postal order unsigned they have 12 +2 days

to comply, only if they fail to supply the copy of the agreement can put the account in dispute,

if this occurs the ONLY sanction is that they cannot issue a court claim until they provide

the agreement or since changes in case law an appropriate reconstituted agreement which are

being accepted by the courts especially if this is supported by statement showing activity on the account,

similarly a signed application form with statements are being accepted also.

There is a template letter in the library here is the link //

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Can any one post the link to the CCA letter please mine are not

working it seems.

Brig,

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?414-CCA-request-letter

 

If that doesnt work, then just click on the library link at the top of the page.

 

I would also start your spreadsheet for reclaiming the PPI. If you were self employed then the chances of them paying out were slim to nil

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Thanks CB , the site is giving some weird results

messages coming in 20 to 30 at a time,threads

showing web page unavailable ..

[citizenB]

Debtfighting.. you might also want to have a read of Harrison v Link in respect of telephone harrassment

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Thank you CB, very much appreciated, you'll know what I mean.

 

Brig.

[citizenB]

Thank you CB, very much appreciated, you'll know what I mean.

 

Brig.

 

[rebel11]

Hi debt

 

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 in my signature, plenty of info

ask if in doubt.

[DebtFighter4Eva]

Thanks for your replies.

 

I have this morning checked my post to find a nice little card from RMA to confirm that they will be contacting me on wednesday between 8am and 8pm. I know that they won't actually come to my home based on other threads about them that I have read, but, the card does have their address on it unlike the letter they sent previously.

 

So I have printed off my CCA letter and will now send it to RMA seeing as they are the current chasers. I'm off to the post office either tomorrow or Wednesday so I'll get it sent off recorded delivery then.

 

Thank you for all the links rebel! I'll get reading through that little lot this evening and get to work on my PPI figures.

[DebtFighter4Eva]

Wow, I can't beleive it was back in July when I started this thread!

 

Anyway, an update. RMA completely ignored me, they did not respond to my CCA request nor did I receive any further letters from them.

 

Eventually the debt was moved along to Moorcroft and as soon as I started getting letters from them I sent off yet another CCA request. On November 10th they sent a letter back acknowledging my request and collection activity on the account was being put on hold until documentation has been supplied by their client.

 

Said documentation was sent by Barclaycard on the 19th of December. Including was a blank agreement (no signature) and their current terms and conditions. This I was expecting from them based on what others on this forum have had from them. Interestingly the balance was reduced by £1 on their letter... the same value of the postal order which was sent for the CCA request and not to be used towards this balance.

 

The last item I received was a letter from Moorcroft sent on the 5th and received by me on the 13th of January. This was just a basic letter saying they beleive their client has completed the request and could I now contact them to discuss options for repaying the debt... etc.

 

So I am now a little stuck for ideas of what to do next. Should I negotiate with Moorcroft and set up a repayment plan that I can afford monthly. If so can I do that by letter and include a cheque as the first payment as I really don't want to talk to them on the phone. Or can I continue to make them jump through any hoops seeing as they took the £1 when they shouldn't have or the fact they didn't give me a signed copy?

 

On a side note, thanks to all the links you guys sent me earlier in this thread I have now collected together all of my statements and I am ready to proceed against them with a PPI claim. I still have a couple of questions in this area. Should I open a new thread in the PPI section of the forum or should I ask those questions here and keep it all together?

 

Thanks again for all your help.

[citizenB]

Debtfighter.. this thread is in the Debt Collection Industry Forums, so it might be a better idea to start a new one in the PPI forums which are

 

HERE

 

That way the PPI guys wont miss you

[Happyhippy1959]

Brig

A quick question to your court and CCA's. I have in writing three letters each for Credit cards sold to Crapbot. It states that due to not being able to supply the original CCA that they cannot enforce in an English court, but that the debt remains and they can blah de blah de blah.

 

Now just to sum or check as I have been away a lot for the past couple of weeks, pre 2007 agreements originals needed for court ???? post 2007 reconstructed will suffice with evidence of expenditure etc.

 

Right or wrong..

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Hippy, Correct in both areas, no agreement no court, but

'normal' collection activity can continue, recons satisfy CCA sect 77/78

etc., but must strictly conform to the case law, if used in court.

 

Brig.

[Happyhippy1959]

Thanks Brig, just what I thought as four companies have now confirmed that they cannot ENFORCE and under English Law that is obtaining a county court order. So pre 2007 agreements must have the original if they go to court. Post 2007 which I have only two is Recon for court but must be WATER TIGHT.

 

Nice to see your well and busy Brig.... quick one again Brig but it does not worry me, ( never want credit again ) if as I am doing now and not paying those who have failed to supply agreements will this stay forever and a day on my credit file. I must point out that I only challenge when the debt is sold for peanuts to a organisation like say Crapbot... who then have the cheek to charge 12% interest, ???? ¬!!!!!!!!!! amazing greed... even if they would have produced the original in pristine fashion and set in a tablet of stone what's the use in paying as your token payment just gets swallowed up.

[citizenB]

Happy hippo.. no, once 6 years has been reached, it should drop off your credit file

[debbbbsy]

So I am now a little stuck for ideas of what to do next. Should I negotiate with Moorcroft and set up a repayment plan that I can afford monthly. If so can I do that by letter and include a cheque as the first payment as I really don't want to talk to them on the phone. Or can I continue to make them jump through any hoops seeing as they took the £1 when they shouldn't have or the fact they didn't give me a signed copy?

 

Your spot on about Barclayacrd sending out blank agreements, as if that constitutes compliance with a CCA request . What idiots.

 

Its now quite straight forward...... barclaycard don't have a credit agreement with your signature on it.....ignore these morons....we have been doing this since we recieved the same response in 2008. It will be passed back and forth to every crappy DCA who has absolutely no knowledge of what has occurred previously, they'll threaten immediate action if you don't phone and make a payment within 7 days....just bin the letters. If they phone, give them what for.

[DebtFighter4Eva]

citizenB, thanks, I'll get a thread started over there shortly for the PPI.

 

debbbsy, so as my account was opened in 2002 and based on happy hippo's questions to Brig the fact that they don't have a signed copy means that they could never take me to court to get a CCJ against me? Or maybe they do have the original and they just sent a recon. to me so that I would let it go to court? Is there some sort of letter that I can fire off ala non compliance with the CCA or do I just flat out ignore anything that comes regarding this debt from now on?

 

Would I not be admitting to the debt when I take them for the PPI and could they not then use that against me to get to court?

 

I will pay the debt if I have to, I'll just give them as little as possible and make it take as long as possible, my main goal was to give them as much grief as they have given and caused me. However if I can get away with out giving them a penny then thats even better! I'll gladly stick that to them as I hate them with a vengeance after the way they have treated me over the past two years.

[debbbbsy]

If Barclaycard had the agreement, they would have sent it. Send the letter that puts the account in dispute.

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Date:

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/78. This was signed for as delivered on the **DATE**

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE** (12+2 working days after you made the initial request).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become currently unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 21 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

 

I look forward to hearing from you. This should be in writing, I have no wish to correspond by telephone.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Send it recorded so you have proof of service, and keep copies because this will be passed to every DCA, and you will inform them officially that Barclaycard do not have the agreement. No DCA will waste any money issuing court proceedings on an account that cannot be enforced, they'll just pass it on.

 

Putting the account in Dispute simply means that they can't instigate any legal proceedings, they can bark as much as they want, but they have no bite.

 

If you want to pay it back, this puts you in a position of strength to negotiate on your terms, interest frozen, charges removed, a payment amount that you can afford......if you take this route, then I suppose you can reclaim the PPI.

[tosh1]

subbing

[Happyhippy1959]

Exactly Debbbsy,,, Pre-2007 No agreement = No Court... I have kept the letters from Crapbot and others saying we can Bark at the moon till hell freezes over Hippy but yes Mr Hippy you and those motley debt dodgers on CAG are right, we can't put you in front of a Judge. ( Now that is my reading of there letters between the lines ) we know most DCA's monitor this site, we know in what little induction new employees get that CAG and other sites like this are used by only Debt dodgers ( totally wrong ) I paid my token payments to the OC's without fail. But as soon as they sell on and a company try's to charge me 12% interest then its lets see the CCA agreement to see if you can do that. My number one Morons are Argoose, they claim I have no right to see my agreement and say they have fulfilled there obligations with a blank document Well if that is the Case Argoose why did Freds return it to you and Mr Carter..... Now RMA are offering me a SUBSTANTIAL DISCOUNT but I must phone within 7 days as it is in the hands of there and I quote PRE-SUE department. ( thought it was a affiliated Native American Charity at first ) !!!!!! Silly Hippy, too much Borkum Riff in me younger days.

 

So hold out there, Barclaycard would have sent it if they had got it.. Same as Argoose, they sent me a lady from Wales agreement...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They could not even get it right... Data protection commissioners office informed...!!!!!!!! Oh by the way I am awaiting two Barclaycard CCA's' Crapbot tell me the one was a goldfish card, never had a Goldfish card in me life, had one in a bowl when I was a kid. Think they mean the Old Morgan stanley card,,,,, Well good luck with that bad boy...... MBNA sold my virgin off,,, have now waited 30 plus days for a CCA, Allied told NO PAYMENT ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE.

[DebtFighter4Eva]

Hi Happy,

 

Thanks for the follow up, it certainly sets my mind at ease.

 

I did send the letter that Debbbys provided, by recorded, but I have had nothing back so I suspect that they have gone back to Barclaycard to find out what was sent to me. Shall be interesting to see what they do come back with. I did get a letter in between from Moorcroft telling me they had a substantial discount offer, no details of what that offer was but I had to call within 7 days.... er no

 

I too have a MBNA Virgin account that was just sold, I got a letter from them telling me it had been sold and asking me to keep up my repayments... I wasn't making any and I have heard nothing from the company that bought it. I can't wait for them to get in touch as I know they won't have the CCA as that account was opened pre-2000.

 

I'll pop back and keep this thread updated when I next hear something from Barclaycard / Moorcroft.

[Mulberry08]

Two years after sending a SAR request to barclaycard and now my debt being transferred to Lowells they have suddenly found my 1995 agreement! Surely if they had the agreement they should have sent it two years ago! I have agreed to pay £5 per month am I dong the right thing? Haven't paid anything for 2 years as sent letter to Barclaycard to say in dispute!

[walkinthepark]

I should scan and post your agreement up here so people can see if it's legit or not.

[Mulberry08]

Should I pay the £5 per month? Do I have to pay this forever?