Philips Debt Collection Letter re Council Tax

[paulamcb]

Myself and my husband live in a house that we pay council tax for but my husband has a £300 debt on a previous address which he agreed to pay £10 a week to the council...he was paying this but since getting married in april we have completely overlooked it and not paid it.The original bill was over £500 so he has paid a chunk of it.

 

He has had no reminder letters from the council regarding this.

 

Today we have a letter hand delivered from philips bailiffs saying they have been to seize goods and if he fails to pay immediately they may reattend with a locksmith and seize goods wether we are in or not.

 

If we are unable to pay in full immediately we have to call the bailiff personally on the number provided.

 

 

Please help, its not a massive debt but we have not got £300 to pay immediately, not sure what to do first

[postggj]

have they put that bit about returning with a locksmith in writing

 

if they have then thats a no no and they cant do that action

 

how much of the original £500 couincil tax bill has he paid

 

the baliff can only charge i believe £25 for the first letter

[paulamcb]

The original debt was £537.26

 

He paid £10 week but not paid since april.

 

The debt is now £301.76.

 

The letter states 'please note we may re-attend your premises with a locksmith to remove any seized goods (as in accordance with the law) even in your abscence'

[dx100uk]

in this case philips are acting as bailiffs not debt collectors............

 

there is NO POWER to force

 

Question can he break into my house while im out if no one is in, he has never been in my house before ---End Quote---

To be able to force entry to your home he needs the following:

1 - he must have gained previous peaceful entry and made a valid levy on goods.

2 - next time he calls you must have denied him entry following a default on a payment due.

3 - he must get the approval of the Council to apply for a forced entry, and they MUST agree FIRST

4 - he must apply to the Magistrates Court for an Order allowing him to force entry - very rarely given

5 - he must write to you giving you a date and time of when he is coming

6 - if you are then not in he may make a forced entry

thus 99.9% of the time - So you are a long, long way from this happening - not that it will, and as you have paid up to date minus his fees then no application to force entry will succeed.

Any hassles with the Bailiff do no disappear overnight and it does take a long time to resolve. As said previously the Council cannot wash their hands of this and if they insist they can do nothing then they leave themselves wide open. As you no longer reside within the same authority then you must complain at the highest level ie the CEO. It would do no harm to also inform the Leader of the Council and his opposite number of what is going on also. As for the Bailiff themselves you must also challenge the fees they are trying to claim. As you paid after the levy was made you may indeed be liable for some fees but definitely not what they are claiming.

 

 

i would phone the council concerned and find out if you have an LO against you

 

dx

[paulamcb]

They have only said charges may be incurred, they are just trying to collect the debt my husband owes the council.

Also we still live within the same authority.

 

Do we ring the bailiff?

[postggj]

to be honest i would try and deal with the council direct

 

whatever you do

 

refuse the baliff entry to your property and never sign anything the baliff gives you

[paulamcb]

I have a feeling the council will say its now out of their hands and we have to deal with the bailiff!!

[brassnecked]

You can pay the council direct using their online payment system and do it regularly at a level you can afford, to build up a paymemnt record, if the bailiff has no levy he can only add about £42.50 for first and second visit fees, I think if he had a levy at your husbands previous address it would now be invalid, although this is only my opinion and others will know more. If you pay direct i would add the first and second visit fees on to the amount you pay in but others can give a more detailed advice.

[hallowitch]

can you confirm that you did not live at the address philips are chasing council tax for

 

did your husband let the bailiffs into his previous address to levy goods

[paulamcb]

We do not live at the same address they are chasing money for (but it is the same council), my husband lived there over 3 years ago

 

He did not let them into his previous property

[brassnecked]

We do not live at the same address they are chasing money for (but it is the same council), my husband lived there over 3 years ago

 

He did not let them into his previous property

 

There will be hopefully no levy then, keep the bailiff out and hide any cars, and pay the council direct but add the first & second visit fee imho

[hallowitch]

We do not live at the same address they are chasing money for (but it is the same council), my husband lived there over 3 years ago

 

He did not let them into his previous property

 

as you did not live at the address with him they cant levy your goods for his debt doesn't matter if it the same council

if they have not levied previously for this debt your bailiff fees will be 1st visit fee £24.50 and 2nd visit fee £18

 

you need to send for a breakdown of charges from Philip's to establish exactly what you have paid them and what fees they have charged

 

Name

Address

Bailiff Ref: Account No: 123456

Council Ref No: 435672

Date

Dear Sir,

With reference to the above account please provide me with a breakdown of all fees charged and payments made for the above account

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - The reason for the fee.

c - The name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - The name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - The date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10.

The National Standards for Enforcement Agents state that if a written request is made an itemised account of fees will be provided.

Please provide the information requested within 14 days of this E-mail /recorded delivery letter

Yours faithfully

Ripped off customer"

[tomtubby]

I am assuming that this was a debt that was owed by your husband BEFORE your were married. If so, then you have NO responsibility for paying.

 

The only problem that he would have is if your husband has a car and this is outside of your home as the bailiff can levy upon it.

 

If he does not have a car ( or expensive items OUTSIDE of the home on which the bailiff could levy upon) then the only way in which a levy can be made is by way of "peaceful entry" into the property.

 

However, there is no legal right to allow a bailiff into your home.

 

You would need to be very careful indeed if you are minded to allow the baiiff entry into your home. This is because, even now, your husband cannot afford to pay £300. The bailiff would charge a levy fee (according to scale) which would be approx £25 and a walking possession fee of £12.00. Just these two fees alone would increase your debt by another 10% which will make your financial circumstances much worse. This is a very good reason for refusing to allow a bailiff entry into your home and is one that we use all of the time.

 

Without a levy, the ONLY fees than can legally be charged are just £24.50 for "attending to levy" (where no levy was made) and a 2nd such visit fee can be charged at just £18.00.

 

Unless a levy can be made on goods belonging to your husband, NO FURTHER FEES CAN BE CHARGED.

[caledfwlch]

have they put that bit about returning with a locksmith in writing

 

if they have then thats a no no and they cant do that action

 

how much of the original £500 couincil tax bill has he paid

 

the baliff can only charge i believe £25 for the first letter

 

To my knowledge a certified bailiff enforcing a council tax liability order cannot charge a penny for sending a letter.

[fork-it]

Myself and my husband live in a house that we pay council tax for but my husband has a £300 debt on a previous address which he agreed to pay £10 a week to the council...he was paying this but since getting married in april we have completely overlooked it and not paid it.The original bill was over £500 so he has paid a chunk of it.

 

He has had no reminder letters from the council regarding this.

 

The law says the council must send you a "final notice" or a "reminder" by post to your current address before making an application to a magistrate for a Liability order against you. As there is compelling evidence the council failed to do this, you can ask the council to roll the case back to pre-liability order stage and cease enforcement action immediately.

 

The law is Section 33(3) and 34(1) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992, http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/regulation/33/made

 

Contact the council and ask them to comply with Regulation 33(3) and 34(1), but if they are unable or unwilling to do so, then ask the council to revoke the Liability Order under Section 82 of the Local Government Act 2003 because the summons was sent to the wrong address. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/26/section/82

 

If the council does not cooperate then you can ask the Local Government Ombudsman to intervene. You can even ask for compensation, the award of this type of non-compliance by a council is typically about £100. Awards can be more if you received a bailiff or paid money to one.

 

Also, contact your local councillor and get him on side and show him the above information.

[fork-it]

Today we have a letter hand delivered from philips bailiffs saying they have been to seize goods and if he fails to pay immediately they may reattend with a locksmith and seize goods wether we are in or not.

 

 

Philips normally collect court fines, and this is their MO for it.

 

Council tax might be new to them and they are using their existing MO.

 

It is an offence under Section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 to threaten a householder with breaking and entering unless they have permission by a Magistrate to do so. You might want to show that document to the police and ask they investigate and provide you with a crime number for insurance purposes.

 

Also they cannot remove goods in your absence.

 

Khazanchi & Anor v Faircharm Investments Ltd & Ors [1998] EWCA Civ 471 : On 17 March 1998 Lord Justice Morritt in the High Court ruled that bailiffs having a Walking Possessions Agreement cannot remove anything whilst the debtor is absent unless it is pre-arranged by appointment and with an Order signed by a Judge. The Judge also said in his conclusion,

 

However it should be noted that in cases such as these there may be a sanction pursuant to Section 1 of the Criminal Damage Act l971. In other cases the provisions of Section 6 of the Criminal Law Act may apply also.

Source: http://vlex.co.uk/vid/ur-judge-cox-52584219

[busby999]

just to add to this i was in the same situation as this , i telephoned council but they refused to intervene with the bailiff action , i then emailed head of revenues attaching an expenditure sheet also telling them that i was a vulnerable case & i wasn't going to allow bailiffs peaceful entry , lo & behold had an email this am council have agreed a payment plan with me & called off bailiff action :whoo:i strictly advise you to follow advice of these guys on here, i did & it helped me , by the way thanks guys

[busby999]

if they have not gained peaceful entry previously they are not allowed to do this , under no circumstances let them in ,

[Bhuna76]

Hi guys. I have a similar situation,These posts have explained a few things BUT, I still have worries. I just received a REMOVAL NOTICE from 'Philips' Hand Delivered, regarding council tax from a previous address. It contains today's date,what it regards, who the debt is due to(Council), the Bailiffs FIRST name only and a mobile number. It does state the OUTSTANDING AMOUNT, nor does it have a REFERENCE NUMBER. It does state that bit about 'Re-attending with a locksmith etc'. The Tenancy Agreement is in my girlfriends name and she owns all the valuable items in the house. As the House is in her name, would Philips be able to get a court order to enter the property and seize goods for a debt that is in my name? Also, I have NO INCOME whatsoever due to my JSA benefit being stopped(GF works full time) How do they expect me to pay it?. Any advice welcome. GF is panicking. Thanks. (p.s. tried to post a new thread for this but wasn't allowed)

[brassnecked]

Hi guys. I have a similar situation,These posts have explained a few things BUT, I still have worries. I just received a REMOVAL NOTICE from 'Philips' Hand Delivered, regarding council tax from a previous address. It contains today's date,what it regards, who the debt is due to(Council), the Bailiffs FIRST name only and a mobile number. It does state the OUTSTANDING AMOUNT, nor does it have a REFERENCE NUMBER. It does state that bit about 'Re-attending with a locksmith etc'. The Tenancy Agreement is in my girlfriends name and she owns all the valuable items in the house. As the House is in her name, would Philips be able to get a court order to enter the property and seize goods for a debt that is in my name? Also, I have NO INCOME whatsoever due to my JSA benefit being stopped(GF works full time) How do they expect me to pay it?. Any advice welcome. GF is panicking. Thanks. (p.s. tried to post a new thread for this but wasn't allowed)

 

Hi Bhuna76

 

The bailiff cannot seize goods belonging to your GF so if she swears a Statutory declaration as to her ownership it may help

 

Anyway to help you get the best advice you need a thread there is one started for you here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=168