HSBC no CCA

[PriorityOne]

I mean my SAR went to the data protection section at HSBC, do I send there or the accounts place

 

Thanks for replies so far.

 

Just send wherever your CCA request went (by rec. delivery)... and it'll will be fine....

[spartathisis]

Thanks. Had another letter confirming they do not have a copy of CCA after demanding they stop being idle and go and check their storage facilities for my records.

 

They still insist it was taken out in 1996 (Mastercard took over) and theres me thinking I had an Access card for 10yrs prior to that

[Bazooka Boo]

Game over IMO.

 

No CCA = No pay. They cannot enforce this in court or take any further legal recourse, and if they are still processing your data on your CRF I would make a formal complaint to the ICO and say that they are in breach of the DPA.

[spartathisis]

Cheers.

 

I know have 3 letters from different people (all managers) in different departments stating they do not have the CCA and that it was opened in 1996. UUmm, I was unemployed 1996 and had been for 6 months prior to that and that damned Access card I had been using for years must have been a gift then

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

What was the slogan Access Gives You Freedom:madgrin:

[spartathisis]

And they have sent a letter telling me they have increased my credit limit to £8500!!!! Irresponsible lending or what

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Unbelievable:madgrin:

[spartathisis]

I`m sure its old age, but I cant find the Account in dispute template, yes I have searched and gone into the letters library but still cant see it. Could someone post the link please?

 

Thank you

[spartathisis]

Ok, I have found the template, but have a slight problem with it.

 

I have not sought a copy under s78, so the relevance to that is not appropriate and the account being in dispute due to non compliance also refers to s78. I cant go saying the account is in dispute due to non production under s78 request, so any ideas?

 

Help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[cab1ne]

And they have sent a letter telling me they have increased my credit limit to £8500!!!! Irresponsible lending or what

 

"LMFAO"

 

also, check out carey regarding varied agreements "DOUBLE STUFFED" or what

 

dave

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I would just compose a simple letter saying what

you are disputing and why, this will often get

a better response than a template, which is

really only intended to give guidance and ideas

how to format your letters.

[spartathisis]

Could folks have a look at this and give me some input please, bare in mind info was sought through a SAR NOT s78 and the account was pre 2006 (they say 1996, I know it was some 7/8 yrs earlier).

 

Thanks.

 

 

I made a formal request for all the documentation you hold on the above account, you have failed to comply fully with my request, and as such I now regard the alleged account to be in default.

 

**** has confirmed on three separate occasions that there is no credit agreement relating to the alleged account in existence, this has therefore rendered this alleged account unenforceable in a court of law. *1 & *2

 

For your reference:

 

CCA 1974

s.61

"(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless -

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner”

 

S.127

Enforcement orders in cases of infringement

(1) In the case of an application for an enforcement order under -

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1) (a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner)."

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be seen as unlawful and vexatious, furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment. *3

 

I have not requested a copy under s78 of the CCA 1974, therefore a reconstituted copy (as defined by HHJ Waksman in Carey v HSBC et al) cannot be produced as a substitute.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any Credit Reference Agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must, within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I will accept this as your agreement to remove all such data by yourselves and those held by any credit referencing agencies.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

me

 

 

 

*1

Dimond v. Lovell [2000] UKHL 27; [2000] 2 All ER 897; [2000] 2 WLR 1121 (11th May, 2000)

 

Parliament intended that if a consumer credit agreement was improperly executed, then subject to the enforcement powers of the court, the debtor should not have to pay.

 

*2

The Vice Chancellor Lord Justice Chadwick in the Supreme Court of Judicature Court of Appeal (Civil Division) on Appeal from Epsom County Court (HHJ Hull)

 

Wilson v First County Trust [2000] EWCA Civ 278 (3 November 2000)

 

26. The question arises from the terms of s.61 (1), 65 and 127 to which I have referred in paragraphs 9 and 10. It is apparent from the terms of s.61 (1) that there are several grounds on which a regulated agreement may be "not properly executed" so as to require enforcement by court order under s.65. The restrictions on such enforcement contained in s.127 are in two forms; the first (s.127(1) and(2)) leaves it to the discretion of the court, the second contained in s.127(3) is an absolute bar if the regulated agreement did not contain the prescribed terms.

 

*3

Protection from Harassment Act 1997

1. - (1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct-

(a) Which amounts to harassment of another, and

(b) Which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other.

 

(2) For the purposes of this section, the person whose course of conduct is in question ought to know that it amounts to harassment of another if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Well it looks good to me, I'll bump it

to get you other opinions.

 

Brig.

BUMP:bump2:

[spartathisis]

Thanks, the more the merrier

[PriorityOne]

Hi Spart..... you don't need to go into the ins and outs of various Acts. Let them deal with this as a complaint; leaving ample room for them to trip themselves up in writing. My suggestion is below. If they get sh*tty with you however, please don't forget that a CCA request can place an account "in dispute" in the legal sense but a SAR (which you've sent) does not. It can raise a dispute.... but does not place an account "in dispute"..... The fact that you haven't sent one might come back to bite you in the butt.... but facts are still facts (they don't have an Agreement) so it's no big deal at the moment.

 

COMPLAINT

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Your Ref: xxxxx

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

 

On xx/xx/xxxx, I made a formal request under the Data Protection Act 1998; for all documentation you hold pertaining to myself. xx days have now elapsed and you have failed to comply fully with my request. I am still waiting for xxxxxxxxxx

 

**** has confirmed on three separate occasions that there is no credit agreement pertaining to myself in relation to the above referenced account and as such, it is legally unenforceable (Consumer Credit Act 1974; sec 127 (3). Should you decide to issue legal proceedings in defiance of the Act however, your actions will be considered both unlawful and vexatious. Those actions will also be vigorously defended on a number of grounds, notwithstanding the above and reported to the relevant authorities without any further notice.

 

As you appear to have no signed authority to process my data at all (CCA 1974), please consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to cease processing any data in relation to myself and this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from any records with Credit Reference Agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must, within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

I await your considered response.

 

Yours faithfully

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I think a complaint like this needs to be escalated past

the ''customer service'' reps up to the Compliance manager'director

who is responsible for the conduct of the company in respect of law

and regulation, in my experience it gets better and quicker results.

[spartathisis]

Cheers P1, spot on.

 

With regards to the lack of a s78 request, what could be the consequences?

[PriorityOne]

Cheers P1, spot on.

 

With regards to the lack of a s78 request, what could be the consequences?

 

The account is not "in dispute" in the legal sense.... so they may still chase you, despite stating that there's no Agreement. On the other hand, CPUTR is mentioned in the complaint in my last post, so they can't mislead you either.

 

Hard to say which way this will swing at the moment.... but if they do chase you, just send a CCA request!

[spartathisis]

Chase or attempt to go to court do you think? Not bothered about them chasing in the slightest.

[PriorityOne]

Chase or attempt to go to court do you think? Not bothered about them chasing in the slightest.

 

Some will; some won't.... but you'll get a solicitor's letter beforehand anyway. It's doubtful at the moment to be honest.

[spartathisis]

AAHH, I can quote the SRA code of conduct on not misleading the court and then complain about them

 

If there is no CCA, how can they justify passing my details onto a 3rd party?

[Bazooka Boo]

Dear Bill&Ben,

 

Thank you for your letter dated dd/mm.yyyy, the contents of which have been laughed at and forwarded to the OFT & TS & my local MP to have a giggle at.

 

Your failure to comply with my SAR has now been made a formal complaint, therefore until the ICO has carried out their investigation into your incompetent immature company, I will not enter into any further protracted willy waving.

 

See you in court.

 

[PriorityOne]

Dear Bill&Ben,

 

Thank you for your letter dated dd/mm.yyyy, the contents of which have been laughed at and forwarded to the OFT & TS & my local MP to have a giggle at.

 

Your failure to comply with my SAR has now been made a formal complaint, therefore until the ICO has carried out their investigation into your incompetent immature company, I will not enter into any further protracted willy waving.

 

See you in court.

 

 

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Not sure that they have the right equipment to comply

with your suggestion BB certainly no BA**S IMHO:madgrin:

[postggj]

I am just putting my nose in on this one ref s.77 to s.79 requests for agreements

 

as we know, a creditor can send a reconstructed agreement to comply with the request

 

but that reconstructed agreement must be a doppel ganger of the original agreement to satisfy that request

 

if you dispute the recon agreement is duff

 

just send a cpr 31.16 request for the original or on the reconstructed agreement,

 

get them to certify its a copy of the original

 

no agreement, no enforceable debt

 

thats the way i see it