Ingeus

[jasta11]

I remember walking into the job centre for my usual signing and it was lashing down outside and cold...I had a hat on and a hood covering the hat and I staggered into the JC dripping wet and freezing.......and some security jobsworth told me I would not be allowed into the JC if I didnt remove the hood

 

Should have told him you were a Jedi and that he was making a religious attack on you. One lad did it years ago and the JC had to apologise to him for asking him to take off his hood, as 'Jedi' is now a recognised religion.

[LMO]

Should have told him you were a Jedi and that he was making a religious attack on you. One lad did it years ago and the JC had to apologise to him for asking him to take off his hood, as 'Jedi' is now a recognised religion.

 

Do they make covered women take off their scarves? What happens when a woman turns up wearing a chador do they make her uncover her face?

[dyfed]

A few druggies and drunks? When I went there it was full of them, I couldn't help but think that's what the place was for...people who didnt want to work and it would kick them up the backside, just my opinion

 

Hey Im a drunk.

Dont you think that these so called "druggies and drunks" are actual ill people? Who may have mental health problems?

Look I didnt choose to be an alcoholic. I didnt choose to be kicked out of the army and leave my wife and son. Nothing was more important to me than getting my drink. It left my life in ruins and alone. I tried to take my life twice and spent a lot of time in hospital and on a mental health unit.

I dont think its fair to stereotype people. I am sure that your "druggies and drunks" have some other issues, which is the majority of them.

Just thank your lucky stars you are not one of us.

I blame society for their problems. Geez with the way us ill, disabled and unemployed are being put through the wringer and condemned by government and media is it any wonder that people turn to drink or drugs to escape from it all?

[estellyn]

Hey Im a drunk.

Dont you think that these so called "druggies and drunks" are actual ill people? Who may have mental health problems?

Look I didnt choose to be an alcoholic. I didnt choose to be kicked out of the army and leave my wife and son. Nothing was more important to me than getting my drink. It left my life in ruins and alone. I tried to take my life twice and spent a lot of time in hospital and on a mental health unit.

I dont think its fair to stereotype people. I am sure that your "druggies and drunks" have some other issues, which is the majority of them.

Just thank your lucky stars you are not one of us.

I blame society for their problems. Geez with the way us ill, disabled and unemployed are being put through the wringer and condemned by government and media is it any wonder that people turn to drink or drugs to escape from it all?

 

Yes, addiction IS an illness, and is often linked with mental health issues. I've assisted lots of addicts with benefit issues, and they are real people with real issues. Most people who haven't suffered with addiction find it very difficult to get their head around. How many times have I heard judgemental people say 'well why don't they just stop?' - as if it was that easy. They really don't understand. Addiction IS NOT a moral failiing, it is not a character flaw, it is an illness with genetic, social psychological, emotional and most importantly psysiological components.

[LMO]

Hey Im a drunk.

Dont you think that these so called "druggies and drunks" are actual ill people? Who may have mental health problems?

Look I didnt choose to be an alcoholic. I didnt choose to be kicked out of the army and leave my wife and son. Nothing was more important to me than getting my drink. It left my life in ruins and alone. I tried to take my life twice and spent a lot of time in hospital and on a mental health unit.

I dont think its fair to stereotype people. I am sure that your "druggies and drunks" have some other issues, which is the majority of them.

Just thank your lucky stars you are not one of us.

I blame society for their problems. Geez with the way us ill, disabled and unemployed are being put through the wringer and condemned by government and media is it any wonder that people turn to drink or drugs to escape from it all?

 

I have been there in that dark place myself many years back...for 30 years........now 16 years clean from booze...I discovered that the only "problem" that druggies and drunks have is themselves..pointing the finger of blame at other circumstances is a big one and resentment is No 1 offender

 

......but I have to say at one JC 3 years ago I was victimised by JC staff even though I've been clean for years I got treated like ****. (long story).

 

I have had some really tough times and yes I find life hard at times I've also been homeless 3 times, twice here, and once abroad during that 16 years of cleanliness... I've had no end of job losses people dying on me etc etc but throughout I never touched the stuff. I know the problem is ME I have trouble with people places and things and have to navigate my sensitive little self through these minefields on a daily basis.

 

Granted some people might have mental health problems I dont dispute that and be using as well, but the majority will find the mental health stuff they think they have will go away once they stop pumping their bodies with poisons and using every damn unfortunate circumstance, that happens to non-drinkers too,... as an excuse to be a bum.

[estellyn]

I have been there in that dark place myself many years back...for 30 years........now 16 years clean from booze...I discovered that the only "problem" that druggies and drunks have is themselves..pointing the finger of blame at other circumstances is a big one and resentment is No 1 offender

 

......but I have to say at one JC 3 years ago I was victimised by JC staff even though I've been clean for years I got treated like ****. (long story).

 

I have had some really tough times and yes I find life hard at times I've also been homeless 3 times, twice here, and once abroad during that 16 years of cleanliness... I've had no end of job losses people dying on me etc etc but throughout I never touched the stuff. I know the problem is ME I have trouble with people places and things and have to navigate my sensitive little self through these minefields on a daily basis.

 

Granted some people might have mental health problems I dont dispute that and be using as well, but the majority will find the mental health stuff they think they have will go away once they stop pumping their bodies with poisons and using every damn unfortunate circumstance, that happens to non-drinkers too,... as an excuse to be a bum.

 

Actually, it's well known that schizophrenics will often self medicate with alcohol as it helps their symptoms and they find it easier than the side effects of normal medications. I believe there are other mental health disorders where the mental health issue comes first and then alcohol or non prescription drugs are used as a way to cope - depression is another example.

 

Congratulations on getting clean, that is a huge achievement, but you need to understand that everyone is different, and the truths you discovered about yourself may apply to some other addicts, but won't apply to all.

[LMO]

Actually, it's well known that schizophrenics will often self medicate with alcohol as it helps their symptoms and they find it easier than the side effects of normal medications. I believe there are other mental health disorders where the mental health issue comes first and then alcohol or non prescription drugs are used as a way to cope - depression is another example.

 

Congratulations on getting clean, that is a huge achievement, but you need to understand that everyone is different, and the truths you discovered about yourself may apply to some other addicts, but won't apply to all.

 

Yes I thought I was different from everyone else too

[antone]

Yes I thought I was different from everyone else too

 

OK, enough. We're not here to squabble about who is or is not genuinely ill and in need of help.

 

The idea that addiction and mental illness can be a vicious and downwards spiral is not exactly controversial - however it starts.

[estellyn]

Yes I thought I was different from everyone else too

 

Luckily I'm not an addict, so I'm speaking as an impartial observer. And it's not surprising finding someone who is in recovery being so............zealous regarding their opinion of how to successfully recover, and also what causes the issue in the first place. I understand that.

 

But a lack of understanding in addiction by JCP and work programme advisers can cause much difficulty, and indeed exacerbate issues.

 

For instance, an adviser can have a guy in front of them, 10 am, obviously been drinking - what is that adviser thinking? How might they treat that person? With understanding or derision? The likelihood is they will just see that person as a drunk, and that if they made the effort they would be able to stop - a common view by those without experience of addiction. But if the adviser had talked to the guy about it, they might find that the person is schizophrenic, had bad side effects on his meds, and with poor mental health provision in his area, he didn't take this up with a professional. Instead he found the voices were quieter when he drank, so he drank more and more of the time. Another 10am appointment and a woman at her appt, obviously been drinking - again the only thing given her is judgement. But the young woman suffers with depression and self harms following an abusive childhood - it's how she copes with the low self esteem an feelings of shame an guilt.

 

The way the work programme should run, is that people should be assessed and referred for the help they need. In these examples, the guy isn't going to be able to have effective alcoholism treatment without getting his meds right and help from a psychiatrist and monitoring from a CPN or support worker. The young woman will need intensive therapy, possibly medication and an alcohol recovery programme. They also need to want to get better - I'm sure you're well aware of the terror of giving up that crutch whether it be alcohol, drugs, gambling, food etc.

 

But until funding, resources and will are available, these people will continue to be looked at in jobcentres and work programmes with scorn and anger. Underneath every addiction is a story, an individual, deserving of help and respect, and not everyone has the resources or strength to be able to deal with their issues at that time.

 

The whole 'I did it, therefore everyone else can do it and should right now' opinion makes me crazy. It shows a lack of empathy and understanding.

[joeski]

Luckily I'm not an addict, so I'm speaking as an impartial observer. And it's not surprising finding someone who is in recovery being so............zealous regarding their opinion of how to successfully recover, and also what causes the issue in the first place. I understand that.

 

But a lack of understanding in addiction by JCP and work programme advisers can cause much difficulty, and indeed exacerbate issues.

 

For instance, an adviser can have a guy in front of them, 10 am, obviously been drinking - what is that adviser thinking? How might they treat that person? With understanding or derision? The likelihood is they will just see that person as a drunk, and that if they made the effort they would be able to stop - a common view by those without experience of addiction. But if the adviser had talked to the guy about it, they might find that the person is schizophrenic, had bad side effects on his meds, and with poor mental health provision in his area, he didn't take this up with a professional. Instead he found the voices were quieter when he drank, so he drank more and more of the time. Another 10am appointment and a woman at her appt, obviously been drinking - again the only thing given her is judgement. But the young woman suffers with depression and self harms following an abusive childhood - it's how she copes with the low self esteem an feelings of shame an guilt.

 

The way the work programme should run, is that people should be assessed and referred for the help they need. In these examples, the guy isn't going to be able to have effective alcoholism treatment without getting his meds right and help from a psychiatrist and monitoring from a CPN or support worker. The young woman will need intensive therapy, possibly medication and an alcohol recovery programme. They also need to want to get better - I'm sure you're well aware of the terror of giving up that crutch whether it be alcohol, drugs, gambling, food etc.

 

But until funding, resources and will are available, these people will continue to be looked at in jobcentres and work programmes with scorn and anger. Underneath every addiction is a story, an individual, deserving of help and respect, and not everyone has the resources or strength to be able to deal with their issues at that time.

 

The whole 'I did it, therefore everyone else can do it and should right now' opinion makes me crazy. It shows a lack of empathy and understanding.

 

 

people can also turn to alcohol and drugs if they suffer from things like anxiety and lack of confidence. one of my friends suffers from anxiety and has very little confidence, he turned to drink to help him feel less anxious although he has now come of the drink.

WP advisers really need to remember the saying 'what comes around, goes around'.

[LMO]

Luckily I'm not an addict, so I'm speaking as an impartial observer. And it's not surprising finding someone who is in recovery being so............zealous regarding their opinion of how to successfully recover, and also what causes the issue in the first place. I understand that.

 

But a lack of understanding in addiction by JCP and work programme advisers can cause much difficulty, and indeed exacerbate issues.

 

For instance, an adviser can have a guy in front of them, 10 am, obviously been drinking - what is that adviser thinking? How might they treat that person? With understanding or derision? The likelihood is they will just see that person as a drunk, and that if they made the effort they would be able to stop - a common view by those without experience of addiction. But if the adviser had talked to the guy about it, they might find that the person is schizophrenic, had bad side effects on his meds, and with poor mental health provision in his area, he didn't take this up with a professional. Instead he found the voices were quieter when he drank, so he drank more and more of the time. Another 10am appointment and a woman at her appt, obviously been drinking - again the only thing given her is judgement. But the young woman suffers with depression and self harms following an abusive childhood - it's how she copes with the low self esteem an feelings of shame an guilt.

 

The way the work programme should run, is that people should be assessed and referred for the help they need. In these examples, the guy isn't going to be able to have effective alcoholism treatment without getting his meds right and help from a psychiatrist and monitoring from a CPN or support worker. The young woman will need intensive therapy, possibly medication and an alcohol recovery programme. They also need to want to get better - I'm sure you're well aware of the terror of giving up that crutch whether it be alcohol, drugs, gambling, food etc.

 

But until funding, resources and will are available, these people will continue to be looked at in jobcentres and work programmes with scorn and anger. Underneath every addiction is a story, an individual, deserving of help and respect, and not everyone has the resources or strength to be able to deal with their issues at that time.

 

The whole 'I did it, therefore everyone else can do it and should right now' opinion makes me crazy. It shows a lack of empathy and understanding.

 

Long term alcohol abuse - mimic's schizophrenia and also causes depression. In recovery you learn to differentiate between whether you have an addiction to alcohol or you have a true mental illness. AA advises you to seek out help for other problems you have in your life. I have had sponsorship and recovery experience since 1992. The "I have done it and so can you" is the whole theme of AA. Have you ever attended an AA meeting dear. Then I suggest you pop along to an open meeting its a real eyeopener.

 

I had a guy say to me in the JC (I was homeless and living in the YMCA at the time) when giving me a sanction for something petty and when I confronted him that he was discriminating against me because I was in the YMCA...he laughed and said " why would I want to be victimising you? I still get my salary at the end of the month so why would I do that?(that comment took him to a Tribunal).

 

I did not smell of drink (being in recovery) I looked normal and ok...and still this guy found something to LORD it over me for regardless....having grey hair is another one...........JC staff are not counsellors or sponsors they are just there to shuffle paperwork....but I agree people could do without the comments and the judgement and the discrimination which is bestowed upon anyone who walks through that door. Having said all that I changed my job centre and got much better treatment from the new one at the time...

[joeski]

at the end of the day ingeus advisers need to learn to have more respect, there is no excuse for not showing empathy for people who need help with issues in their lives.

[Mr.P]

Not just Ingeus staff, but all advisers, be they WP provider or JCP/DWP staff.

 

Note: The majority of the front line staff that I have had contact with at my local JCP office have been sympathetic to my situation, and most have wanted to help as best they could.

[estellyn]

Long term alcohol abuse - mimic's schizophrenia and also causes depression. In recovery you learn to differentiate between whether you have an addiction to alcohol or you have a true mental illness. AA advises you to seek out help for other problems you have in your life. I have had sponsorship and recovery experience since 1992. The "I have done it and so can you" is the whole theme of AA. Have you ever attended an AA meeting dear. Then I suggest you pop along to an open meeting its a real eyeopener.

 

I had a guy say to me in the JC (I was homeless and living in the YMCA at the time) when giving me a sanction for something petty and when I confronted him that he was discriminating against me because I was in the YMCA...he laughed and said " why would I want to be victimising you? I still get my salary at the end of the month so why would I do that?(that comment took him to a Tribunal).

 

I did not smell of drink (being in recovery) I looked normal and ok...and still this guy found something to LORD it over me for regardless....having grey hair is another one...........JC staff are not counsellors or sponsors they are just there to shuffle paperwork....but I agree people could do without the comments and the judgement and the discrimination which is bestowed upon anyone who walks through that door. Having said all that I changed my job centre and got much better treatment from the new one at the time...

 

Please don't try and patronise me by calling me 'dear'. I've spent 20 years working with the poor and vulnerable in one capacity or another and have seen and helped people with a broad spectrum of issues including addiction, homelessness, criminal behaviour, mental health problems, learning difficulties etc. Yes, I've been to several AA meetings with clients, and I've also seen when AA doesn't work, and I have issues with certain aspects, I agree it can be very effective for a lot of people, but not so good for others.

 

Sadly, as JCP and WP advisers are people, their attitudes can vary wildly, and quite frankly some are prejudiced simply because the person in front of them is unemployed. Most of us make internal judgements about people all day every day (positive, negative or neutral ones), but I feel there is no room for giving voice or action to prejudice or personal bias when working in a professional capacity.

[Mr Happy77]

Hi, been reading through this forum for a bit and it seems like the right place for a bit of info.

 

I've been on the WP with Ingeus for about 6 months now, regularly attend every two weeks for a 20 minute conversation which I won't bore you with the details of. Recently received a letter confirming my next appointment and what I have to do next time. It states attend appointment, provide evidence of job search and arrange effective js workshop.

 

Now it's the latter part which I wanted info on. This letter was the first I'd heard of it and was wondering what it is, is it worth my while and if not do I have to attend.

 

Any advise would be appreciated.

[Bakatcha]

Hi, been reading through this forum for a bit and it seems like the right place for a bit of info.

 

I've been on the WP with Ingeus for about 6 months now, regularly attend every two weeks for a 20 minute conversation which I won't bore you with the details of. Recently received a letter confirming my next appointment and what I have to do next time. It states attend appointment, provide evidence of job search and arrange effective js workshop.

 

Now it's the latter part which I wanted info on. This letter was the first I'd heard of it and was wondering what it is, is it worth my while and if not do I have to attend.

 

Any advise would be appreciated.

It's mandatory (awful word that you'll hear a lot) so unless you want a sanction doubt raised then you should attend all mandatory appointments.

I think the word "arrange" should be "attend"? It's not up to you to arrange their courses for them! They can mandate you to attend a course (provided it's reasonable for you) and they mandate you correctly. Correct mandation has been covered many times in this thread so look back to see what they should be doing and what your rights are.

[Chester6]

Js most likely isn't worthwhile - if it was they'd talk about it instead of tedious pointless sessions that waste time

 

I'm stuck with that pointless nonsense

[G4C389]

Hey Im a drunk.

Dont you think that these so called "druggies and drunks" are actual ill people? Who may have mental health problems?

Look I didnt choose to be an alcoholic. I didnt choose to be kicked out of the army and leave my wife and son. Nothing was more important to me than getting my drink. It left my life in ruins and alone. I tried to take my life twice and spent a lot of time in hospital and on a mental health unit.

I dont think its fair to stereotype people. I am sure that your "druggies and drunks" have some other issues, which is the majority of them.

Just thank your lucky stars you are not one of us.

I blame society for their problems. Geez with the way us ill, disabled and unemployed are being put through the wringer and condemned by government and media is it any wonder that people turn to drink or drugs to escape from it all?

I would often see them outside wIth cans of stella at 9am, so people are going to think that way, , i turned to drinking heavily while I went there, but people in there will always look down their nose at people unfortunately

Edited May 19, 2013 by G4C389

[joeski]

I would often see them outside wIth cans of stella at 9am, so people are going to think that way, , i turned to drinking heavily while I went there, but people in there will always look down their nose at people unfortunately

 

what comes around, goes around! these advisers wanna take this saying and instill it in their little brains..anyone can fall on hard times!

[dyfed]

Stella at nine in the morning outside the joke shop.

I used to drink a 1/4 bottle of vodka every morning before driving to work and then continued to drink through the day whilst driving a hgv vehicle or the camps CO (I was in the army).

 

When I see these guys drinking in the street during the day I feel sorry for them. It deeply hurts me to see it. I have helped many people with duel diagnosis (drink and mental health issues) over the past few years as a volunteer.

 

I guess even those without MH issues are struggling without hope. Britain is broken. Poverty is on the rise. Its a sad state of affairs.

[Lorise]

Well got a text off my advisor to attend a pre screen job interview for poundland at their office, do any of you guy/gals know what that may involve? i have been to one they did for Asda and we had a competition to see who could build the tallest towers out of paper cups and paper was wondering if it will be the same sort of rubbish like that, was told i need my birth cert/passport and my bank details (well i know for sure i ain't giving anyone my bank details). Thanks in advance.

[osdset]

Poundland are pre screening for jobs? Who do they think they are, Goldman Sachs?

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Poundland are pre screening for jobs? Who do they think they are, Goldman Sachs?

We are talking about Welfare To Work Clerks.....who more than likely aspire to work for Poundland themselves, but who couldn't make the grade.

[signmaker]

Can't Poundland get volunteers? the drones are slacking.

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[Lorise]

Poundland are pre screening for jobs? Who do they think they are, Goldman Sachs?

 

Hahaha....I think it is more that Ingeus are doing the pre screening to see who would be best to put forward ( or in other words they can claim the credit for) i have no problems working for poundland, love shop work, just hope this pre screening thing is legit and not just Ingeus putting together a daft group session to look good on paper and it ends up being a waste of time.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Lorise
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