Failed ATOS medical, next steps, please help

[katrina123]

hi

Ive just found out ive failed the atos medical (UK) for ESA.

Ive called up my job centre to ask for the medical report.

I cant believe i scored 0 points on both questionnaire and medical. This is not right, i filled in the questionnaire very thouroughly referencing the descriptors and i was confidant i would score over 10 points at least.

The medical interviewer told me he didnt even read the questionnaire i had filled in, saying i wrote too much and basically he couldnt be bothered.

 

just wondered my next steps.

the letter says 'you will get a further letter explaining how they made decision'. So i should wait until i receive this?

 

So i presume my ESA has stopped now.

when will it be re-instated? when i make an appeal?

the letter says i can ask for explanation, reasons, ask them

to look at it again, and finally appeal. Shall i do all of these in order, one at a time, or all together immediately?

 

thanks

[Life-Goes-On]

Appeal, your ESA will continue at the assessment rate until the end of the appeal.

I wouldn't worry about the zero points ATOS are liars and that's been proved time and time again.

[honeybee13]

Hello there, welcome to the forum.

 

There is a sticky in my name about appeals and tribunals if you feel able to read it and I hope it will help you. To find stickies, exit this thread using the back arrow, then scroll up through the thread titles to the yellow section, which is the stickies.

 

If you have more questions after that, please repost and we'll do what we can.

 

My best, HB

[katrina123]

thankyou all.

 

went to CAB. They have confused me further.

The guy told me to do something which was slightly diff to what ive read here. He said this initial stage is NOT the tribunal thing, its just an appeal, and he said no need to go through the detailed medical report and pointing out all things i disagree with, he said just write a sentence or two on gl24, send it in, and the appeal will be done in about 2 months or less, just a few weeks, he said its an internal procedure and if they stick with decision, THEN it can go to tribunal and THEN i can dispute all the things in medical report.

 

But others say onilne to go through the report and list all things i disagree with NOW, making a multi page appeal/gl24.

 

The complaint i sent to ATOS, they have sent me a letter saying they will investigate it.

 

CAB told me that if i lose the appeal, i may have to pay back the ESA money. Is this true? Has this happened to anyone?

would you be require to pay back ALL ESA payment from the very beginning, or just from when they stopped it and you appealed? this sounds like a nightmare, hearing this makes me want to forget about ESA and maybe go on JSA. How can they expect you to pay back ESA payments...

 

Now im not sure how to fill out gl24, quick short and simple, or very detailed with many notes.

 

Also when the appeal is in, i guess the DWP will say you are entitled this x amount of money while appealing, it could be less than assessment rate i hear, so then i tell this new rate to housing benefit, correct? no point telling housing benefit now as i do not know what my next rate will be.

I once was in a transition from one benefit to another, and i informed them straight away and the payments were stopped as i could not prove the new benefit paperwork and learnt my lesson that only inform of changes when they are all provable and sendable with documents.

 

So the appeal process is NOT the tribunal process? these are two distinct diff stages? if i fail the appeal, can i apply for ESA again : i know they say you have to wait 6 months, is it 6 months from original decision or 6months from the appeal hearing?

 

the one month deadline to get appeal in.

say if my decision letter is dated 20th may. but it says they have stopped ESA from 15th may. Does my month deadline to get appeal in, begin from 15th may or 20th may?

 

thankyou

[Life-Goes-On]

What CAB are talking about is a reconsideration.

The DWP will do a reconsideration (look at it again) if they do not change the decision then it goes to appeal.

It's the date on the letter, but if you ask for a statement of reasons, then I believe you get an extra two weeks. (hopefully someone can confirm this.

 

As long as you get a doctors fit/sick notes, you can still claim ESA while appealing.

[honeybee13]

To add to what LGO has said, which I agree with. You only go to tribunal if the DWP reconsider their decision and uphold it. Most of the time, they seem to and then you're in the tribunal system.

 

I understood while you are appealing, you receive the assessment rate.

 

I hope people with other insights will be along to advise you.

 

My best, HB

[leemack]

It sounds like you got a bad CAB adviser - it does happen.

 

The appeal process starts with putting in a GL24 and ultimately ends with a tribunal hearing. In between that time the appeal can be ended by the DWP changing their decision or you withdrawing the appeal. The initial stage of the appeal is where the DWP will pass your case to an appeals officer who will look at your case again to see if the decision can be changed - it very rarely is. Once this initial stage is over your case is then sent to the Tribunals service who eventually set a date for the hearing.

 

You can chose to appeal with as little or as much detail as you like. But yes, the best thing to start with is to write a few lines on the GL24 and send that in asap - this ensures your appeal is registered within the time limit and gets you paid ESA while appealling. You can also either send in any information you want either with the GL24 or within a few weeks of sending in so that it can be considered by the DWP when they look at their decision again. Many advisers don't bother though, and wait to provide additional evidence and a submission (your statement of your case, including tearing apart the atos report) for the tribunal itself.

 

You DO NOT have to pay back the ESA you receive while appealling - I'm quite concerned that CAB advisers are telling people this - its flat wrong and could discourage people from appealling. You receive the assessment rate while appealling.

 

The one month time limit runs from the date on your decision letter - so if this is the 20th of May then you need to get your GL24 in by 19th June.

 

If you fail the appeal you will be able to reapply for ESA based on the same condition, 6 months from the date on your decision letter. It is likely the appeal process will take longer than 6 months.

 

I'm really disappointed in your CAB adviser - all this should have been made clear to you.

 

Edit to add - with ESA a statement of reasons is pretty pointless. Just put a short GL24 in saying you think you should have scored in excess of 15 points, and then your choice either to follow it quite promtly with all the information and submission or to wait and provide it to tribunal.

[Nystagmite]

I was under the impression that tribunal and appeal are the same thing?

[honeybee13]

I was under the impression that tribunal and appeal are the same thing?

 

No they're not. I'm confident about that. The posts above should explain the difference.

 

My best, HB

[ErikaPNP]

They are the same. That's why you will often see me specifically asking people who haven't completed a GL24 and appealed by letter whether they have included the word 'appeal' or otherwise made it clear that it's a tribunal they want in their letter. If they haven't, all they will get is a reconsideration.

 

A reconsideration is an integral part of the appeals procedure and is performed as a matter of course when a person submits a duly made appeal. If the reconsideration results in a favourable result to the claimant, the appeal lapses. If the reconsideration results in an unfavourable result for the claimant, the matter will continue on to tribunal so long as they have either completed a GL24 or made it clear that they are appealing. If they haven't made it clear, or haven't completed a GL24, the matter will stop at reconsideration and the person will need to submit either a GL24 or otherwise duly made appeal if they want to go on to tribunal.

 

A reconsideration can be done without an appeal but an appeal cannot be done without a reconsideration.

 

It's also why you will see me telling people that there is no right to an appeal in some cases. Social Fund Crisis Loan for example. There is no right to an appeal as an appeal tribunal do not hear these cases. There is however the right to an internal review and a further right to another review by the independent review service. To a lay person they may appear the same thing, but they are not. An Appeal Tribunal is a legal process; the independent review service is not.

[leemack]

They are the same. That's why you will often see me specifically asking people who haven't completed a GL24 and appealed by letter whether they have included the word 'appeal' or otherwise made it clear that it's a tribunal they want in their letter. If they haven't, all they will get is a reconsideration.

 

A reconsideration is an integral part of the appeals procedure and is performed as a matter of course when a person submits a duly made appeal. If the reconsideration results in a favourable result to the claimant, the appeal lapses. If the reconsideration results in an unfavourable result for the claimant, the matter will continue on to tribunal so long as they have either completed a GL24 or made it clear that they are appealing. If they haven't made it clear, or haven't completed a GL24, the matter will stop at reconsideration and the person will need to submit either a GL24 or otherwise duly made appeal if they want to go on to tribunal.

 

A reconsideration can be done without an appeal but an appeal cannot be done without a reconsideration.

 

It's also why you will see me telling people that there is no right to an appeal in some cases. Social Fund Crisis Loan for example. There is no right to an appeal as an appeal tribunal do not hear these cases. There is however the right to an internal review and a further right to another review by the independent review service. To a lay person they may appear the same thing, but they are not. An Appeal Tribunal is a legal process; the independent review service is not.

 

Erika, I was just going to say some of this stuff, but you got there first - and said it better than I would:-)

[honeybee13]

Hi Erika and Leemack. I hadn't appreciated the subtleties of the terminology. I'll try to say 'reconsideration' in future. It makes more sense to me anyway:). It's still largely a waste of time though.

 

My best, HB

[leemack]

It's still largely a waste of time though.

 

My best, HB

 

Agreed!

[katrina123]

leemack : thanks, yes i did think the cab person was not speaking facts and it was questionnable.

 

thanks to all here, really helpful stuff. just getting to write appeal today.

 

can we refer to official descriptors in appeal form, and actual wording from them? or are we not supposed

to have the descriptors anyway? ive got some descriptor pdf but not sure if its old or up to date.

 

I dont have to go to the tribunal hearing do i? "oral or paper hearing" ive read. I think id prefer paper hearing,

wouldnt be able to cope with interrogation from judge/doctors.

[honeybee13]

leemack : thanks, yes i did think the cab person was not speaking facts and it was questionnable.

 

thanks to all here, really helpful stuff. just getting to write appeal today.

 

can we refer to official descriptors in appeal form, and actual wording from them? or are we not supposed

to have the descriptors anyway? ive got some descriptor pdf but not sure if its old or up to date.

 

I dont have to go to the tribunal hearing do i? "oral or paper hearing" ive read. I think id prefer paper hearing,

wouldnt be able to cope with interrogation from judge/doctors.

 

Hello again. Have you read my sticky about appealing? It's based on my own case, to be used as a template. Yes, you can refer to the descriptors, they're in the public domain. I certainly used them, why not? There's a link in my sticky and hopefully that is to the up to date version at the DWP.

 

You don't have to go to the hearing, but you're more likely to win if you do. You don't have to go alone and if you're lucky, you'll find a Welfare Rights person to come with you. I didn't want to attend my tribunal, but one of the judges told my OH that they're much more likely to believe you if you attend and tell them how your life is. Fwiw, I thought the tribunal was less difficult than the Atos assessment. That is also described in the sticky, my experience and Bookworm's.

 

My best, HB

[sickovbeensick]

hi honeybee i have found your sticky very useful i was wondering if you could give me any advice i posted a link on the forum but had no reply i am very nervous about my hearing although my welfare worker says i should win my case and get put in the support group heres the post i posted if you could give me some info would be a great help ..................

 

EDITED - post removed, Please do not hijack other members threads with your own issue. The below title in blue links directly to your own thread, where people will be able to click through to and respond.

 

ESA shambles failing ill people

 

Erika

Site Team

Edited June 8, 2011 by ErikaPNP
as explained above

[katrina123]

thanks to all here, great help.

 

update.

so i wrote to the jobcentre asking for them to reconsider decision, they did NOT reply back to this letter. (i sent futher medical report along with this).

 

So then i made the offical gl24 appeal with an accompanying explanation.

They replied to this, saying they will look at it again.

But do i need to send in the futher medical info again? i sent it with First letter i have mentioned above.

 

I am back on assessment phase ESA.

 

The complaint i made to ATOS about:

1) assessor not reading my medical report i took with me

2) not reading my questionnaire, and admitting it to me.

 

The letter from atos acknowledges my complaint.

They say any further evidence has to be made to Decision Maker.

DM is the jobcentre?

ATOS aplogised for the assessor not reading my medical evidence.

Letter says the examiner says they DO read questionnaires and DO read further notes the interviewee brings.

 

Letter goes on to say a manager has looked at the report the examiner made and after reviewing the report and my questionnaire, they agree that it appears that the questionnaire has not been read and had it been, the report would have focused on my specific issues, and that the ESA50 had not been referred to in my report. And its says ATOS doesnt feel my report has been completed in accordance with their standards.

 

It says the deificiences will be made aware to the DM handling the claim.

 

Do you guys think i should send a copy of this atos letter to the DM?

 

thankyou

 

PS. the DM can not rescore the points can they? only ATOS decide the points scored?

it seems it is all in the hands of the DM now.

 

Will i have to attend appeal hearing? or can i choose to not go?

[honeybee13]

Hello there. I think I'm right in saying that the DM works for the DWP. They can decide to over-rule what Atos have said and award you benefit.

 

If they decide to uphold the original decision, then you're in tribunal territory. If that's where you end up, and tough as it is, I urge you to go along because it could make all the difference to your winning. I was petrified when I had to go along - 3 times because the DWP messed up. My OH spoke to a tribunal chairman once and he said I absolutely needed to go along and that if I told them how my life was and my problems, they would believe me. And they did, and I won .

 

It may not get that far for you, but to you and anyone else considering not attending the tribunal appeal, I say it's a really bad idea that can work against you.

 

The last person here I remember deciding not to attend lost, and might not have needed to.

 

HB x

[leemack]

Yes, I would resend the medical reports, just in case they went missing.

 

Unfortunately there may be a chance you find yourself at another atos assessment as the DM can decide without an appropriate assessment, that they don't have enough information - though in theory, they can decide based on the information in front of them.

 

Yes, send a copy of the letter to the DM.

[ErikaPNP]

No, that is sent from the DWP who send a copy of that to the tribunal at the same time. Once the tribunal receive their copy and register your case, they will send you the enquiry form.

[katrina123]

thanks to all for the advice here.

 

update:

 

i put my appeal in a while ago and received confirmation that the appeal process/procedure was underway and to wait.

 

But now i just received another medical questionnaire from ATOS (exactly the same as the one that i originally filled in).

 

So this is either a mistake, or they have decided to start all over again from the beginning without informing me?

 

any advice?

 

thanks.

[Nystagmite]

Have you made a new claim on the basis of a new / worsening condition?

[katrina123]

no

[katrina123]

thanks

called jobcentre, they said the notes they have say i have been referred for another medical, so will have to fill

in a brand new medical questionnaire.

 

so the appeal has been scrapped?

 

and they didnt even tell me?

 

ive asked why cant they just read the original questionnaire ?

or can i re-submitt it? they will call me back.

 

should be ok if i just re-submit it again? or just copy the original word for word?

 

took me weeks to fill out, cant be doing that again, so hard.

[sickovbeensick]

Hi i applied for ESA in march 2010 originally and went for a medical in september which lasted 5 mins which i failed i sent an appeal in and the DWP sent me me questioner which i filled out and also made them aware that the previous WCA medical took 5 mins.......they then sent me for a medical 1 year after i started my claim which the medical this time lasted 1 hour, they faile dme and stopped my money in April and i appealed and won my appeal last week im currently appealing the decision for which group im in but my advise to you is fil out the new form...but with it send as much medical evidence with the questionnaire as possible becoz that will help when they decide if you have to attend a medical or not....the more evidnce from consultants/doctors /psychiatists or any specialists you may see and get help from will go in your favour and the more you send in the more likely it will be that the DWP medical officer may not send u 4 a medical i made the mistake of not sending medical evidence with my questionannire so then went to a medical with the most incompitant so called nurse ive ever met who then failed me and ive had to take this awful tribunal process but it went in my favour so its good for you to know that it will be ok if you deal with the medical and loose that stage the appeals process does help genuinely ill people,.........

All the besta nd remember send as much supporing evidnece with the questionnaire as poss

Keep us updated

Kind Regards

Sobs