Link Financial - advice please

[chatsworth2409]

In January this year I entered into an IVA to pay my creditors as much as possible based upon our household income, over a 5 year period. There is also a mechanism as part of the IVA agreement to use some of any equity in our home in the last year of the IVA to pay into the pot for distribution.

 

All is going okay, but my wife has now started receiving letters and phone calls from Link Financial chasing payment for a joint debt we have in place, from prior to the IVA being approved.

 

The original debt was arranged with GE Money who apparently have sold it on to Link Financial Services. Since the IVA was approved, I had agreed with GE Money that my 'half' of the debt will be paid through the IVA and that my wife's half would be paid via monthly payments over the same period. This amounted to £192.06 per month which dealt with the amount of the debt attributed to my wife. Since then, we have been paying GE Money £200 per month (more than the agreement). When I contacted Link Financial to discuss why they were chasing the full amount of the debt that GEMONEY was owed, they said they were now the owners of that debt, and as such, wanted full settlement immediately.

 

I explained that as part of the IVA arrangement we were now 'not legally able' to pay any monies over and above the monies agreed through the IVA, but they said that as the debt was a joint debt (joint and several), they could now press my wife to settle the whole amount. They have threatened to go for our house if we don't pay by the end of June this year. When I said I would be breaking the law by paying them before any of my other creditors they said that they were chasing my wife and not me, and she is not in the IVA. That isn't strictly true as we had to submit a 'household' income and expenditure report for the IVA meeting which took my wife's income into account - there is no more free money to pay anyone. I said I am happy to continue to pay the amount we have been doing, but they said they couldn't enter into a stage payment arrangement because we have a mortgage. What can I do? I am very worried and concerned?

 

I don't deny the debt, and I am trying to fulfill all my obligations, but am worried about how to proceed.

 

Can you help?

[terriersaregreat]

Who set up the IVA? Have you checked with them? Didn't GEM agree to receiving your part of the debt?

 

Seems a crafty move to me, these wasters have a go at anything.

 

I expect someone will be along soon with more experience.

[dx100uk]

99% of link stuff are the result of 'dead' agreements

 

tell us about the debt brfore you agree to anything

 

worst fleecers in the box.

 

dx

[Tingy]

In my opinion if this went to court the judge would throw them out on their ear. You are paying a massive amount already alongside your IVA and are clearly making every effort and more to repay your debts. I personally very much doubt a judge would grant a charging order in this situation. If they did there really is no justice in this world.

[chatsworth2409]

Thanks guys.

 

Yes we truly are trying to honour our debts as best we can. Our concern is this issue over the fact that the agreement being in joint names 'converts to the other person completely' if one fails to pay. As the IVA is in my name only, technically Link now appear to be able to hound my wife because of it - regardless of the fact we had agreed with GE MONEY they would get all their money paid through the combination of IVA payments and monthly payments by my wife.

 

Like I said, we are not contesting the debt - merely the method and time frame of repayment. In fact, the way we propose to settle would fulfill the initial agreement long before the original time frame due to the IVA time frame rules.

 

This guy 'Rio' (why do they all have strange names?) is due to ring back in 2 weeks to hear me agree to his offer of a final settlement by the end of June. We can't afford that of course, but even if we could, because of the IVA agreement rules it would be illegal. I feel as though we are in between a rock and a hard place at the moment.

 

I won't bore you all with the details but our troubles started 18 months ago when I suffered a life threatening illness which put me in a coma for 6 weeks, and kept me off work for a further 6 months because of it - as a self employed person at the time with the significant impact to our earnings it made it impossible to maintain all our payment obligations. My wife is suffering despair and depression at the turn of all these events and is under medical procedures and councelling because of it. If we had to go to court over this it would devastate her - in fact she would not be able to cope with that. I could, but she couldn't.

[Bazooka Boo]

A passing comment... DO NOT SPEAK ON THE PHONE (unless you can record your phone calls?) Keep EVERYTHING IN WRITING, if they ring you again, simply tell them "everything in writing" and hang up. DO NOT go through their hilarious "security questions"!

[chatsworth2409]

Hi BB - yes I've learned that from all the excellent posts from people on SG's post about Link. When they ring back from now on (we have caller display) we won't answer the phone at all. The delay between now and when we receive the next correspondence from them will hopefully enable us to digest all the tremendous advice on this forum from people like yourself who have lived through similar issues - invaluable experience in my view - prior to deciding what to do next!

[dx100uk]

sorry i'm not being funny

 

but you really need to tell us the history of this debt

 

link are famous for trying to fleece people on lemons no-one else will touch

 

dx

[brokebutnotbeatn]

You shoud check with whomever arranged your IVA for your potion of it and also with GE to confirm that they ahve indeed sold this debt and arrangement to pay and to whom and when. My understanding is that is LINK have indeed bought this debt they they have also bought the arrangement. This means they are chancing their arm as usual and it wil get no where near to a court. If it makes you feel better perhaps a short but firm letter advising this is the arrangment they have purchased and this is all you can afford to pay is in order with a bit thrown in regarding 'in writing only'. Whilst LINK will ignore it, this will help settle your conscience as you know you are squeaky clean if it comes to court (which it won't). x

[chatsworth2409]

dx - the history is not that long or troubled really - my wife and I bought into a holiday club where the membership was funded by GE Money. The money totalled approx £19k over a 10 year span. That was approx 5 years ago now. No issues at all until I was taken dangerously ill about 18 months ago (in a coma for 6 weeks and learning to walk again and getting back to work eventually) that stopped me working for about 6 or 7 months from the sudden absence. I was self employed and ran a small family business. This was at the height of the financial crisis in this country and the business suffered significantly in my absence (partly due to the economy but mainly due to my absence). so much so that when I did finally get back to work I soon realised that all was not as I had been led to believe. And we were struggling to pay our creditors on time.

 

I took all manner of financial advice and the upshot was that I could save the business (I was a sole trader), and gain the financial support of a new bank (my existing bank wouldn't help), by ceasing to trade as a sole trader and incorporating the business going forward. The only way the business could be supported by the new bank was if there was no incumbent debt from the old company. Being a sole trader, all business debt is still personal, and I was advised to apply for an IVA. An IVA gave me the best opportunity to pay all my creditors and at the same time keep hold of our house (which is also in joint names of my wife and I). I hated not paying people what I owed them, but it was evident that the IVA route if ratified by my creditors would give them about 50p in the pound over the 5 year period. The alternative was to be made bankrupt, where it was estimated all creditors would get a mere 6p in the pound as there is very little equity in our house at present.

 

Should you not know, where an IVA is applied for every creditor both private and business have to be collected as a whole (no differentiation), to do otherwise would show preference of one over another. Up until this point all private creditor accounts (loans, mortgage, credit cards etc, as well as the GE MONEY loan) had been ran smoothly and were fully up to date. But it would have been illegal for me to continue to pay anyone at all, once the IVA application process had started through the courts. I contacted GE MONEY (and all my creditors) to explain the scenario, and because I knew about the joint and several clause on the joint account explained that as approx 50p in the pound (of the total) would be paid through the IVA, we would continue to make good the other 50p in the pound (i.e. her half of the debt) via my wife's bank account in the meantime - thereby ensuring GE MONEY they would get their full money over the 5 year IVA period. We calculated between us that that amounted to £192.06 per month, and since the IVA was approved and we could restart payments (January 2011), we've been paying £200 per month to GE MONEY.

 

You say that Link only seem to go for the accounts that are lemons, so I don't understand why our situation is seen as such. GE MONEY seemed happy with the situation, accepted the IVA proposal and we were honouring our side of that agreement (The IVA Supervisor will in time honour her part of it at the frequency she deems appropriate - but this is outside of my control now) so it seems strange they would sell it on to Link if what you say is true. It (the IVA) only runs for 5 years, which is approximately what time is left on the original loan, so even that shouldn't be a big issue really.

 

Having learned so much about the loan industry in the last 12 months and how it operates we know we made a big mistake in funding the loan in the way we did - it was and still is a huge rip off - like a mortgage in many ways. But once done we couldn't back track when we learned the error of our ways, and to be honest if I wasn't the type of person to honour my debts I wouldn't have sought the IVA route but would have gone to bankruptcy instead and walked away from a lot more angst that the next 5 years will surely bring.

 

As stated in my earlier post. No matter what we have tried to do to honour our creditors payments, we have always been open and honest and accepted all the debts are real and that we are doing our utmost to pay them off. The IVA route was taken to do that and at the same time ensure we have a roof over our head and an income to sustain any payment agreements entered into via the IVA. If our house is now in jeopardy I might as well default on the IVA and let them squabble for the proceeds of my bankruptcy between them!

 

Incidently we have one other joint account (a current account with Barclays), and they have accepted a monthly payment plan to settle the account in the same way that GE Money had been promised - 50% of that account attributed and now paid for from my wife's account. We are paying them £35.00 per month until that is cleared.

 

That rather lengthy post is the whole story and where we are now.

[chatsworth2409]

BBNB - I spoke with this guy Rio at Link yesterday and told him all about the arrangement, and he just said that as they now own the debt it is up to them what arrangements will be accepted, and they don't accept stage payments because we have a mortgage. GE Money have confirmed verbally they have passed the debt onto Link, so I have no reason to doubt it.

 

Rio said that he would accept £5000 this month and £5000 next month to clear the half of the debt which is my wife's and thereby stop the chasing of her for the money with the remainder being paid through the IVA procedure, I said I couldn't do that - we do not have the money but even if we had it would be deemed extra earnings, which we were legally obliged to hand it over to the IVA supervisor. He said then in that case £1000 this month and then £9000 next month. I said "you are not listening to a word I say".

 

I also questioned the legitimacy of his offer (for which he is still expecting a reply in two weeks time by the way) as it was effectively accepting stage payments, which logically should then lead to longer payment time frame 'negotiations'. But he said no - due to the amount outstanding of the debt (seems a strange reason to determine payment schedules).

 

In truth, I am up for the fight and not intimidated by these people. I know how to handle myself on the phone, but also I know I am doing everything in my power to resolve our current situation. No, I worry about my wife who is not so worldy wise, very intimidated by this whole wretched business and as stated previously; is in very fragile health. That is my concern - just how long will they be prepared to speak with me before demanding they speak with her alone?

[stoney47]

good morning chatsworth 2409

i have just been reading through your trials with link,welcome to the club.

I am not a expert at anything much,and you will get much better advice from others ,but a couple of things spring to mind

1.as far as i know,and correct me if i am wrong,an iva has to be approved by a court,so the fact that link brought the debt from ge money should not alter the arrangement.have you spoken to your insolvency practioner and asked his advice?

2.if your wife is suffering from depression etc and is on medication and being treated by the doctor, she might come under the area of being a "vulnerable debtor" and debt collection companies have to behave in a certain way.if you get to the stage where they try to pressurise your wife,write to link on her behalf,explaining the situation with regards her health and that she gives you permission to deal on her behalf,they will ask for comfirmation from the doctor so you might want to get a letter in advance,she will need to sign her letter. Hope that all makes sense

regards stoney47

[Bazooka Boo]

BBNB - I spoke with this guy Rio at Link yesterday and told him all about the arrangement, and he just said that as they now own the debt it is up to them what arrangements will be accepted, and they don't accept stage payments because we have a mortgage. GE Money have confirmed verbally they have passed the debt onto Link, so I have no reason to doubt it.

 

Rio said that he would accept £5000 this month and £5000 next month to clear the half of the debt which is my wife's and thereby stop the chasing of her for the money with the remainder being paid through the IVA procedure, I said I couldn't do that - we do not have the money but even if we had it would be deemed extra earnings, which we were legally obliged to hand it over to the IVA supervisor. He said then in that case £1000 this month and then £9000 next month. I said "you are not listening to a word I say".

 

Up to them what they accept? REALLY!!! I dread to think how much commission this Rio boy would have earned off the figures he was demanding you to pay!

They still don't get it do they? It is NOT up to them to decide and demand payments from people, it is for those people to state what THEY will pay, and if they are so greedy and foolish as to want more, then put it in front of a Judge to decide.

 

The reason why he wasn't listening, is because your reply was not on the script in front of him, therefore he could only read the words he had in front of him, and even that will have been no mean feat!

[chatsworth2409]

that's good advice Stoney, and in part how I had intended to proceed.

 

The IVA is a court arrangement yes, and if they were merely coming to me I would not be concerned and would merely hand all correspondence over to the IVA supervisor. No it is this issue of joint and several liability that is at the crux of this and where I am looking for guidance really. When I last quizzed the IP supervisor about this joint and several issue she did say that these creditors may try to exercise their right to adopt this strategy for collection, but that we should merely explain that they will receive some of the debt through the IVA so shouldn't chase the whole amount, and hope that that will appease their requirement. Beyond that she can write on our behalf to them, but has no sway on Links attitude or capability to push for full payment due to the joint and several clause.

 

I would of course protect my wife in any way possible and she has already given permission to GE Money (prior to the debt going to Link) to discuss all matters with me on her behalf. A doctors note will not be a problem should we need one, for her condition is well documented and the treatment sessions logged.

[chatsworth2409]

...you know guys, just talking about it here and explaining the events to date is helping already, I don't feel alone so much having you guys to talk to. God only knows I have to be so careful how I explain things to my wife as she worries so much. I may not learn anything specific about what to do here - but I don't care. Just galvanising my thoughts in this way is very helpful to me, and I thank you all so much.

 

C.

[Bazooka Boo]

It is a very sad society we live in when a corrupt & rotten to the core industry can still practice with near impunity and feed off others misery, spouting all kinds of inaccurate untruths with the sole intention of intimidating and threatening people to the point where they break.

The late Beryl Brazier is the perfect example of this, and exactly the reason why the only time I entertain DCA's is to mock them and bait them, ignoring them and dealing direct with the original creditor is the best method, that way then over time, it will be uneconomic for OC's to use DCA's.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-484772/Grandmother-terrorised-death-bank-wrongly-hounded-16-000.html

[stoney47]

i have a couple of other comments,but will post later. i am in the middle of cooking lunch,before my wife goes to work.i am an extremely slow typist

[stoney47]

chatsworth 2409

when you state about being jontly and severally liable,to my way of thinking you are dealing with your debt as such.did you not have to state on your iva your wifes income as well as yours ?they made a judgement on that information.

just because your wife gave permission to ge money does not mean they will have let link know. Reading your posts again,you appear to be making your full contractual payments,so why have ge money behaved in this way,have you been defaulted for this debt and has it been assigned correctly?

[chatsworth2409]

Hi Stoney - yes for the IVA procedure and application our total household income was scrutinized to set the level of repayment at the maximum affordable. I can't remember if GE Money actually voted in the IVA process but can find out. It is irrelevant now though because the IVA application was legally ratified, so all creditors are now bound by it.

 

I suspect GE Money didn't pass on the approval for them to speak with me - but so far they haven't asked to speak with my wife (strange considering they now claim the debt is hers!), and were happy to try to get me to settle without asking to speak with her. They are fully aware of the IVA and are happy to accept her half now (by the end of June) to avoid chasing for the full amount, with the remainder coming through the IVA procedure in due course. I can't comment on why GE Money have sold this on to link because I just don't know. I do know I now feel somewhat 'side swiped', having believed I was well on my way to sorting out my debts. Any default that has occurred was between October and January (during the IVA application process) when I was ordered to stop paying all creditors until the IVA court verdict. To do so (to pay) would have been in contravention of the rules. We have not missed a payment since restarting after the IVA application was approved.

 

If there is anything at all amiss, it is in the element of interest we are not paying that I claim is attributable to my half of the debt ( i am claiming that that should be frozen as part of the IVA process), which GE MONEY want paid now in with the monthly payments we are making, but I can't afford to pay that element at the moment.

Edited May 8, 2011 by chatsworth2409

[count orlok]

I thought the ConDemed government said creditors would not be allowed to get Charging orders on debts under £25K. On that premise I would be inclined to stop your wife's payment to GE/Link, and let the court sort it out. Even if the government lied about that aswell, surely the fact that you own half (of a minus figure) would stop that. You may wish to continue making your present payments and to be honest if you did, I can't see them carrying through their threats, and if you did the court would do much as you say you are still effectivly making your con tractual payments.

 

I must admit thought that I know nothing of IVAs and their ilk. I can't understand is how if your wife's income was included in the IVA, yet her debts where not and she was not included in it.

Edited May 8, 2011 by count orlok

[stoney47]

my advice would be similar to count orlok,and carry on making your normal payments,if they don,t like it then they can use the courts. was there a notice of assignment amongst your wife,s letters from link. if not ask them to prove they have the right to collect from you

there is a man in links legal dept called Stephen Southwood-Evans, his e-mail address is [email protected]

hopefully you can sort this fairly quickly.as others have said i would not talk to their phone operators

regards stoney47

[chatsworth2409]

thanks guys. I'll do nothing this week except study all letters and speak with the IVA supervisor. Gather my thoughts as it were before responding in some way to Link.

[stoney47]

sounds like a good idea,hope you and your wife have a good week.

stoney47

[chatsworth2409]

Hi Stoney47 - just wondering what you think my email to Stephen Southwood Evans should say and if I should contact him or wait for further harassment before doing so? My 2 weeks is nearly up now and I don't want to do something wrong or in the wrong order.

[stoney47]

chatsworth 2409

did you speak again to your IVA supervisor?

stoney47