Bailiff called & my wife let him in!

[Mike295]

Hi All..

 

.i returned from work today to find my wife upset & annoyed.

 

She had returned home after picking our daughter up from school to find a car parked blocking our driveway,

the guy in the car asked her if she lived at number x, & when she confirmed this, he said he was from the council.

 

My wife had her arms full with shopping bags, so she unlocked the front door, walked in & the guy followed her in.

 

He then announced he was there for unpaid council tax & made a list of the items in our front room & then went into the kitchen & wrote down some items from there too.

 

My wife was so shocked as we were unaware we even owed arrears for council tax, & because our council tax bill is in my name only,

the guy left it that we should phone the council to verify our arrears & then contact them (bailiiffs) to arrange payment.

 

For todays visit he has added a further £55.50.

 

I have since looked at this years summary council tax bill which does shows £307 of arrears for last year.

With the bailiffs fees i now owe £396.50.

 

My question is.....can i pay the council direct & bypass the bailiff fees,

if i do this can the bailiff still come for his fees.

 

What worries me is that he has already gained access to my property & now knows my car.

 

Please can someone advise where i go from here.

Thanks in advance.

 

I should of also mentioned that my wife never signed anything & all my possessions that were written down are easily viewed through the window.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Mike295

[BankFodder]

Frankly, given the very small level of fee which has been added compared to lots of the horror stories we get here, the best thing will be to clear it quickly, learn the lesson and put it behind you.

[tomtubby]

I agree with Bankfodder . The fees are very reasonable. In any event, with council tax the regulations clearly provide that bailiff fees MUST be deducted first from any payments. Therefore, even if you pay the council direct, the bailiff gets his fees of £55 but it will mean that you have NOT cleared the Liability Order and the bailiff can ....and will continue enforcement for the balance.

 

Were you not aware that you had not cleared the council tax from last year? Also, you should have received a 14 day warning letter to advice that a Liability Order was being obtained.

[seanamarts]

I agree with the above, although I would ask the council why you had not been informed of a liability order and the involvement of a bailiff.

Nothing wrong with you paying the council direct via their online payment facility on their website, but as TT has pointed out you must include fee's.

[Mike295]

Just an update, i paid this 1st thing this morning & can breath a huge sigh of relief that it is behind me. I was not aware i had arrears from last year & did not recieve a 14 day warning letter either, thats why i was totally shocked to hear a bailiff had called to my home. Anyway..a lesson learned by me!!

[seanamarts]

I would still contact the council and request answers to why you were not given forewarning of the matter.

[outlawla]

........My question is.....can i pay the council direct & bypass the bailiff fees,

if i do this can the bailiff still come for his fees....

 

Which council are you dealing with?

 

The following is from a FOI request to Rossendale Borough Council:

 

1) In cases allocated to bailiffs for collection of council tax; do Rossendale Borough Council pay the bailiff their fees for work carried out by them when the debtor does not because of direct settlement of the account with the authority?

 

2) If compensation to bailiffs is paid by the council due to debtors not paying bailiffs their fees; what are the annual figures for the years 2002 to date with respect to this payment?

 

Rossendale Borough Council does not pay bailiffs fees for work carried out by them when the debtor does not because of direct payment of the account with the authority. In such circumstances the bailiff is entitled to continue to pursue the debtor for recovery of the fees incurred.

 

It maybe worth doing a similarly worded request to find out what your council's policy is.

 

If your council has the same policy I should think the bailiff would not be allowed to levy for his fees alone and would need to take legal action against you, whether or not that is likely, I don't know.

[ploddertom]

Have the Council confirmed you have discharged your liability in full and owe nothing? This is very important.

 

PT

[Mike295]

Have the Council confirmed you have discharged your liability in full and owe nothing? This is very important.

 

PT

After making payment for the full amount using my debit card, i was told that it was authorised & that the bailiffs had now been called off & that i shall recieve a receipt in the post. I actually made payment to the council after arguing that i did not want to deal with the bailiffs, they agreed but only on the condition that they phoned the bailiffs to confirm the amont i owed, this was obviously to make sure i paid all fees the bailiffs had added.

[Mike295]

I would still contact the council and request answers to why you were not given forewarning of the matter.

I did querie this whilst on the phone to them this morning & he said that it had been posted to me. I have never recieved anything relating to this matter from them, but his answer was 'it was redeemed as sent, so that was good enough'.

[ploddertom]

Sorry for sounding a bit thick but may I ask how much you actually paid? Did the Council tell you how much was for the Fees?

 

PT

[Mike295]

I paid £396.50. this amounts from £307 council tax arrears, £30 Liability order, £24.50 bailiffs fee & £35 for another fee.

This figure was handed to my wife at 3.30 pm yesterday & i was confirmed this by the council when i phoned them at 9am this morning.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Mike295

[ploddertom]

mmm ................ sounds as if he has charged you 1st visit and a levy fee at the same time - one or the other but not both but I am assuming he has made no previous visit,

 

PT

[Mike295]

Yes this was his first visit as far as i know, or at least the first time he has made himself known. It is a £35 levy fee & £24.50 redemption of goods fee. I queried with the council if they could charge this, only to be told by the 1st person i spoke to that the bailiff colud charge this &m for a van if he wanted to on the first visit, she then said to me 'you've been reading the internet'. I then spoke to the senior officer from the council & he agreed also that this fee was allowed because he had levied!

[ploddertom]

The Header H Fee is for when you have had goods removed and a sale has been arranged. You pay in full before the sale takes place including this Redemption Fee and you then retrieve your goods. No goods removed or sale arranged then no Header H Fee can be charged. You say he charged around writing things down - did he leave you a list of these on a notice of Seizure Form? I suspect he has done this to intimidate - unusual for a Bailiff to deny himself of extra fees. Was this B & S by any chance?

 

In the meantime you are now safe from the knock on the door and can collate what you need to get your hard earned back which in my view they have overcharged for. Send off for a breakdown of the fees applied and see what comes back - you need it in B & W from them to use against them. Send initially by email followed by a copy in the post, use and adapt at will:

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

PT

[ploddertom]

I queried with the council if they could charge this, only to be told by the 1st person i spoke to that the bailiff colud charge this &m for a van if he wanted to on the first visit, she then said to me 'you've been reading the internet'. I then spoke to the senior officer from the council & he agreed also that this fee was allowed because he had levied!

 

I note you have the usual complacent Council. What they have told you is utter s***e. The chances are they only speak Bailiff as they believe the sun shines out of their derriere and they can obviously do no wrong.

 

PT

[Mike295]

Yes he did leave a notice of seizure of goods (blue form) & an Inventory of goods seized list, you are correct it was B & S.

 

Do i send the above breakdown of fees to the bailiff & council, or just bailiff.

[ploddertom]

It gets sent to the Bailiffs head office. Is it possible you can list exactly what is on the Notice of Seizure - both sides - there may be the possibility the levy could be invalid, these people are not quite the brightest and over zealous ones list exempt items, by the time they are removed you may have a levy that only consists of the door stop!

 

PT

[Mike295]

Do you mean the blue form which lists fees, etc, or the list of goods he has wrote down on the inventory of goods seized list.

 

List of goods he wrote down are

 

1. TV

2. DVD Player.

3. Leather suite. (which is on finance)

4. Washing Machine.

5. 4 Bar Stools.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Mike295

[ploddertom]

 

List of goods he wrote down are

 

1. TV - how old, what size, flat screen, top of the range?

2. DVD Player. - as above

3. Leather suite. (which is on finance) - did your OH explain it was on finance

4. Washing Machine. - believe this would be exempt

5. 4 Bar Stools. - unless gold plated or made of top quality mahogany/teak would class these as worthless - I make this comment on the basis the goods if removed would only fetch a nominal value at auction

 

Although your debt was low - £300ish he would have needed to seize goods to the value of £3k approx, a general guide is 10% of estimated value. Electrical goods have to certified safe and carry little residual value at auction unless top of the range, even a telly bought last weekend for £1500 may be lucky to fetch £100 at auction this week.

 

The point I am trying to make is that there is a possibility the levy could be argued in which case the levy fee would be replaced by a 1st Visit Fee instead.

 

PT

[Mike295]

List of goods he wrote down are

 

1. TV About a year old, 40" flat screen lcd mid range.

2. DVD Player. About a year old, mid range.

3. Leather suite. (which is on finance) She did not mention it was on finance.

4. Washing Machine. The council said this would be exempt.

5. 4 Bar Stools. Gas stools, we have a breakfast bar instead of a dining table. Your right about worthless...lol

[ploddertom]

I must assume the horizontal position for now but will be able to have a look in at various times tomorrow. I do believe you have a case to have the levy overturned and hopefully get some of what you shelled out paid back. No doubt there is plenty there for others to comment in the meantime.

 

PT

[Mike295]

Thanks for all your input PT, it is very much appreciated. Sleep easy.

[brassnecked]

List of goods he wrote down are

 

1. TV About a year old, 40" flat screen lcd mid range.

2. DVD Player. About a year old, mid range.

3. Leather suite. (which is on finance) She did not mention it was on finance.

4. Washing Machine. The council said this would be exempt.

5. 4 Bar Stools.

Gas stools, we have a breakfast bar instead of a dining table. Your right about worthless...lol

 

 

leather suite on finance would be exempt, did bailiff ask if any of the goods were on finance? she should have asked imho

 

Bar stools, maybe, as they are not really sufficient seating if she wrongfully took the suite.

 

Washing machine, well if the council said so and the bailiff is following it's agreement with the council, why has this been listed? room to challenge methinks

 

The TV and DVD, wiuld not make enough at auction to cover the cost of removal, auction bailiff fees and a portion of the debt.

 

You may well have a challenge to the levy, but ploddertom, and others will be along to give you a definitive opinion.

[seanamarts]

Cannot levy on white goods unless you have two, and cannot levy on items that are on finance, looks to me that the levy is invalid.