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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Cabot - summary cause Scotland - Merged Argos Card & Littlewoods Card help! **Case Dismissed ***


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Hi Folks,

Hope somebody reads this.

 

I got a letter from Cabot this morning saying that i will be hearing from a solicitor within the next 7 days

regarding the littlewoods barclaycard account and demanding payment.

 

I phoned the solicitor they had on the letter,

ive told them this has already been to court and that the account is now statute barred.

 

 

Girl i spoke to said they would take a note of what i had said and get back to cabot.

 

Anyone any thoughts on this??

Its the 1st ive heard from them since the court action was dismissed.

Last payment was made in June 2008 to this account and its scottish law

 

Delilah

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Hi Delilasahb - this sounds a bit like the molehill sketch - Monty P?

- you know the one where the guy batters down one molehill with a big hammer and another one pops up behind him,

so he knocks that down and another one comes up beside him.

 

One thing that occurs to do, is get hold of a copy of your credit file (there are three of them - equifax, experian and call credit).

You can get the basic report for very little - couple of pounds - ordering via their website.

 

 

Thing to watch out for here ('cause I fell for it) is that they will try to register you with an ongoing service

where you can check your credit score etc when you want, and they will notify you when someone makes a search of your credit history

or something changes etc.

 

 

This costs about £10 a month and isnt really worth it imo.

BUT they do make it harder for you just to get your credit history.

 

 

The other annoying thing is that not all lenders use the same credit ref agencies

- I found the most comprehensive one for me (ie it might be different for you) was call credit.

 

Once you have a copy of this, check to see when the account was defaulted.

Assuming that date is more than five years ago,

and that your do hear from their sols again (and lets not forget they have said you will be hearing from a solicitor,

which doesnt mean they are taking you to court

- some solicitors chase up debts using means other than court),

 

 

then I would send them a copy of your credit report showing the default date,

and suggesting that should they move the case to court you will argue that its then up to them

- using your payment records

- to show that you have acknowledged the debt since then.

 

Other thing to remember is that statute barred in England is six years

and I wouldnt be too sure how many folk in Cabot will be aware of that.

 

 

Their solicitors might just send it back to Cabot and tell them to forget it.

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Thank you Seriously Fed Up.

I still have the stuff from the last court action lying about somewhere.

 

 

The solicitor said they had sent me out a letter this morning but will get back in contact with cabot regarding what i said.

I will have a look for the bumph from the last fandango, photocopy the relevant bits and send it along with a statute barred letter to their solicitor.

 

 

It was call credit who were reporting the same debt twice on my credit file, one for barclaycard and one for cabot.

Barclaycard sent me a cheque apologising after i noticed it.

Havent checked my file for a while so it will be worth doing. Thanks

 

Delilah

 

Hi SFU,

The default date was June 2007,

im pretty sure Cabot had the last payment made as May 2008 or July 2008,

i will need to check the accounts they sent on that though.

I know it is definately statute barred though under Scottish Law

coz i know for definate it wasnt after the July.

 

 

Im just taken aback a little by Cabots brass neck and inability to accept defeat.

Perhaps i should also send them a copy of the statute barred letter which i intend to print up

at the weekend once ive checked on all the dates and stuff.

 

 

I might even splash out and send them a tin off brasso so they can polish up their act.

 

Delilah

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Hi Delila,

 

They need an acid dip not just brassso

 

From reading your thread it would appear that your defence, if they continue, is simple --- SB'd otherwise res judica

 

As you know SB in Scotland is 5 years and the debt is gone (Think cilitbang advert), i.e. IMHO it does not exist in any form, legal or otherwise. Additionally the 'owner' of the debt cannot use it as a deduction from tax (according to HMRC)

 

Well done in seeing them off

 

Don't forget to reclaim all and any PPI, charges, etc and I think they have no right to offset as the supposed debt does not exist anymore - need to verify this with other more 'enlightened' CAGgers

 

G

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If you were to make a claim for the refund of charges or PPI - they will simply offset against the SB debt (in England & Wales, the debt is not extinguished by being Statute barred, it just cannot be collected via the court).

 

I am not sure what the situation would be in Scotland though.

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Got my ppi back last year from Barclaycard. I wasnt hanging about haha. And i enjoyed spending it.

 

Delilah

 

:thumb:

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi All,

I managed to have a quick look through the stuff that Cabots lawyer sent mine from their court attempt.

Im slightly worried because there was an account sheet showing the last payment i paid to them was the 24th dec 2008

(there is no way i would pay anyone on Xmas Eve),

 

 

however, i have checked my Experian credit file and it shows no payments having been made to Cabot at all,

i still have the copy of my double entry from Call credit and at the time of court action there are no payments on there either.

So i know i would argue about their payment dates (no payments i made to them were through my bank account)

but im still worried that they could re-open the court action.

 

 

Havent trawled through all the stuff yet as i still havent received the letter their lawyer

said they had sent. Going with Cabots reckoning its 19 weeks til its staute barred.

 

Delilah

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It is likely this is either a transfer of something by the Original Creditor or Cabot. IMHO, if you are absolutely certain you did NOT make that payment then don't worry about it. They will have to provide proof of the payment, how and where it was made etc.

 

Just keep all the paperwork somewhere safe for at least 6 - 12 months.. JIC !

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

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3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I know i didnt make payment,

i wouldnt pay anyone on Xmas Eve not even Santa lol

the mark beside the payments is CC which i imagine stands for credit card

and i havent had any of those since 2005/06.

 

 

I know this lawyer they have now is in England and not Scotland and i would imagine they would use a Scottish lawyer to re-open

or start court proceedings again,

thats if they are allowed to.

 

 

Im slightly worried but not enough to lose sleep over just yet.

 

Delilah

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Received the letter from Cabots lawyers (Shoesmiths llp).

 

 

asking me to agree payment or they would accept a substantial payment as full and final.

 

 

This is the letter they had sent out before i phoned them and told them it was statute barred

and already been in court so

 

 

im waiting on them getting back to me again once theyve spoken to Cabot.

It actually looks like a begging letter, a last ditch attempt sort of thing.

 

Delilah

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  • 3 weeks later...

letter from shoestrings this morning stating that Cabot state last payment was made 24th dec 2008 (no suprise there).

 

 

They want me to send proof that Cabot took me to court,

fill in an expediture form and send it back to them within 7 days with a payment proposal.

 

 

Any suggestions anyone.

 

 

Im tempted to either ignore them or tell them to get lost.

 

 

No payments are showing with any of the credit ref agencies.

 

Delilah

Edited by delilahsahb
missed info
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There is no requirement for you respond to either delilah........you have stated the facts they either accept or issue a claim if they are confident.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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They probably have but there will be no love lost between the two bad debt buyers and are highly unlikely to exchange or assist each other in handing your data out.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Quick update folks.

 

 

Cabots solicitors have given me 14 days to fill out an income and expediture sheet and to supply them with info regarding previous court case.

 

I have written them a letter but not posted it yet stating that the account was put into dispute in July 2010

when i requested a copy of the original CCA containing all the prescribed terms

and that Cabot failed to supply me with an enforceable agreement

and as such has remained in dispute since.

 

 

With regard to payments being made,

i have no knowledge of any payments being made and having checked my credit files with the 3 leading credit reference agencies

( and taken copies), Equifax, Experian and Call Credit no payments being made are showing with any of them.

 

Therefore unless Cabot can supplying me with when, where and by what method payments were made then i consider this matter to be statute barred .

 

Finally as to me supplying you with information regarding the court action your client took against me,

id like to remind you that i am not obliged to supply you with any information whatsoever.

 

I have copies of the all the court info as does my lawyer, i therefore presume that Cabot and the Glasgow based lawyer they used also have copies.

As Cabot are paying you then i suggest you get this information from them as i certainly have no intention of doing their work for them.

 

Thats not word for word but thats what it says.

I intend to post middle of next week so any other suggestions or help would be appreciated folks.

Im petrified of them taking court action again,

i dont think i could cope with it.

 

Delilah

Edited by citizenB
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Erm, isn't this statute barred ?

 

I will flag for andyorch for you Delilah :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Tell them which court dealt with it and the date. At least then they can find out from the court about it and if they do so, it might just put a stop to them pursuing this any further.

We could do with some help from you.

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Quick update folks. Cabots solicitors have given me 14 days to fill out an income and expediture sheet and to supply them with info regarding previous court case.

 

I have written them a letter but not posted it yet basically stating that the account was put into dispute in July 2010 when i requested a copy of the original CCA containing all the prescribed terms and that Cabot failed to supply me with an enforceable agreement and as such has remained in dispute since. With regard to payments being made, i have no knowledge of any payments being made and having checked my credit files with the 3 leading credit reference agencies ( and taken copies), Equifax, Experian and Call Credit no payments being made are showing with any of them.

 

Therefore unless Cabot can supplying me with when, where and by what method payments were made then i consider this matter to be statute barred .

 

Finally as to me supplying you with information regarding the court action your client took against me, id like to remind you that i am not obliged to supply you with any information whatsoever.

 

I have copies of the all the court info as does my lawyer, i therefore presume that Cabot and the Glasgow based lawyer they used also have copies. As Cabot are paying you then i suggest you get this information from them as i certainly have no intention of doing their work for them.

 

Thats not word for word but basically thats what it says. I intend to post middle of next week so any other suggestions or help would be appreciated folks. Im petrified of them taking court action again, i dont think i could cope with it.

 

Delilah

 

Delilah, andyorch has suggested the following course of action.

 

 

Claim was dismissed ...ignore them unless they litigate again.

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Thanks Guys,

I will ignore and wont reply to them.

So far they are only demanding payment,

want me to give them info and fill out and I&E sheet but i am a worrier.

 

 

If they did go for court action again would they have to get permission of the court

bearing in mind the case was dismissed

but does have the "warrant for all execution hereon" after the Sheriffs decision?

 

 

The Solicitors they are using at the moment are in Northampton but i have checked and they do have an office in Edinburgh

so i imagine they would use this office to do the work.

 

 

I know im jumping the gun a bit here but i want to be the one firing the bullets if it comes to it.

 

 

On the bright side though, i must be costing Cabot money if they have now had to employ 2 solicitors

and they probably only paid pennies to buy the debt in 1st place.

 

Delilah

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Delilah, are you in Scotland ?

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Thanks Guys,

I will ignore and wont reply to them. So far they are only demanding payment, want me to give them info and fill out and I&E sheet but i am a worrier. If they did go for court action again would they have to get permission of the court bearing in mind the case was dismissed but does have the "warrant for all execution hereon" after the Sheriffs decision? The Solicitors they are using at the moment are in Northampton but i have checked and they do have an office in Edinburgh so i imagine they would use this office to do the work. I know im jumping the gun a bit here but i want to be the one firing the bullets if it comes to it. On the bright side though, i must be costing Cabot money if they have now had to employ 2 solicitors and they probably only paid pennies to buy the debt in 1st place.

 

Delilah

 

Hi Delilah

 

'Warrant for all lawful......' standard extract decree format, see act of sedurent for info

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1993/3240/schedule/1/made

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Hi CitizenB,

Yes im in Scotland. Just dont know what the legal jargon means. I know the last solicitors Cabot used wanted to be able to come back at a later date when the decision was made to dismiss the case. Ive had a look at the Act of Serundant but its still not registering in my brain.

 

Delilah

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