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    • Morning, I purchased a car from Big Motoring World on 10th December 2023 for £14899.00. On the 15th December I had a problem with the auto start stop function of the car in which the car would stop in the middle of the road with a stop start error message. I called the big assist and the car was booked in for February. The BMW was with them for a week and it came back with the auto stop start feature all fine and all error codes cleared on the report from big motoring world. within 5 days I had the same issue. Warning light coming on and the car stopping. I called big assist again and the car was again booked in for an other repair in May. Car was taken back in may, they had the car for a week and returned with the report saying no issue with the auto stop start feature and blamed my driving. Within 5 days of having the car back it broke down again. This time undrivable. I had the rac pick my car up and take to Stephen James BMW for a full diagnostic. The diagnostic came back with the car needing a new fuel system as magnetic swarf was found.  I have sent big motoring world a letter stating all the issues and that under the consumer rights act 2015 I have asked for a replacement vehicle. all reports from Stephen James BMW have been sent over to big motoring world. Big motoring world have come back and said they will respond to my complaint within 14 days for the date of my complaint letter. I am not feeling confident on the response from them, what are my next steps?   Thanks in advance. 
    • That is really good is that a mistake last off "driver doesn't have a licence" I assume that should be keeper? The Court requested me to send the Court and applicant proof of my sons disability from their GP this clearly shows he has Severe Mental Impairement, he is also illiterate.  I naively assumed once the applicant received this that they would drop the claim.  It offends me that Bank has asked the Judge to throw the case out at the preliminary hearing and to make us pay up.
    • Hi, we are looking to get some opinions on weather or not to bother fighting this PCN. This comes from a very big retail park parking where there are restaurants, hotel, amongst other businesses. The parking is free but I suppose there must be a time limit on it that I am not aware of. We were in the area for around 4 hours. Makes us wonder how they deal with people staying in the hotel as the ANPR is on what appears to be a publicly maintained street (where london buses run) which leads to the different parking areas including the hotel.  1 Date of the infringement 26/05/2024 2 Date on the NTK  31/05/2024 3 Date received 07/06/2024 4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]  YES 5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Entry and exit photos however, based on the photographs we are almost sure the photos are taken on public street. This is the location I believe photos are taken from.  https://maps.app.goo.gl/eii8zSmFFhVZDRpbA 6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A 7 Who is the parking company? UKPA. UK Parking Administration LTD 8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] The Colonnades, Croydon, CR0 4RQ For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. British Parking Association (BPA) Thanks in advance for any assistance.  UKPA PCN The Collonades-redacted.pdf
    • Thank you for posting their WS. If we start with the actual WS made by the director one would have doubts that they had even read PoFA let alone understood it. Point 10  we only have the word of the director that the contract has been extended. I should have had the corroboration of the Client. Point 12 The Judge HHJ Simkiss was not the usual Judge on motoring cases and his decisions on the necessity of contracts did not align with PoFA. In Schedule 4 [1[ it is quite clearly spelt out- “relevant contract” means a contract (including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land) between the driver and a person who is—(a)the owner or occupier of the land; or (b authorised, under or  by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land; And the laughable piece of paper from the land owners cannot be described as a contract. I respectfully ask that the case be dismissed as there is no contract. WE do not even know what the parking regulations are which is really basic. It is respectfully asked that without a valid contract the case cannot continue. One would imagine that were there a valid contract it would have been produced.  So the contract that Bank has with the motorist must come from the landowner. Bank on their own cannot impose their own contract. How could a director of a parking company sign a Statement of Truth which included Point 11. Point 14. There is no offer of a contract at the entrance to the car park. Doubtful if it is even an offer to treat. The entrance sign sign does not comply with the IPC Code of Conduct nor is there any indication that ANPR cameras are in force. A major fault and breach of GDPR. Despite the lack of being offered a contract at the entrance [and how anyone could see what was offered by way of a contract in the car park is impossible owing to none of the signs in the WS being at all legible] payment was made for the car to park. A young person in the car made the payment. But before they did that, they helped an elderly lady to make her payment as she was having difficulty. After arranging payment for the lady the young lad made his payment right behind. Unfortunately he entered the old lady's number again rather than paying .for the car he was in. This can be confirmed by looking at the Allow List print out on page 25. The defendant's car arrived at 12.49 and at 12.51 and 12.52  there are two payments for the same vrm. This was also remarked on by the IPC adjudicator when the PCN was appealed.  So it is quite disgraceful that Bank have continued to pursue the Defendant knowing that it was a question of  entering the wrong vrm.  Point 21 The Defendant is not obliged to name the driver, they are only invited to do so under S9[2][e]. Also it is unreasonable to assume that the keeper is the driver. The Courts do not do that for good reason. The keeper in this case does not have a driving licence. Point 22. The Defendant DID make a further appeal which though it was also turned down their reply was very telling and should have led to the charge being dropped were the company not greedy and willing to pursue the Defendant regardless of the evidence they had in their own hands. Point 23 [111] it's a bit rich asking the Defendant to act justly and at proportionate cost while acting completely unjustly themselves and then adding an unlawful 70% on to the invoice. This  is despite PoFA S4[5] (5)The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper by virtue of the right conferred by this paragraph is the amount specified in the notice to keeper under paragraph 9[2][d].  Point 23 [1v] the Director can deny all he wants but the PCN does not comply with PoFA. S9 [2][a] states  (2)The notice must— (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The PCN only quotes the ANPR arrival and departure times which obviously includes a fair amount of driving between the two cameras. Plus the driver and passengers are a mixture of disabled and aged persons who require more time than just a young fit single driver to exit the car and later re enter. So the ANPR times cannot be the same as the required parking period as stipulated in the ACT. Moreover in S9[2][f]  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; You will note that in the PCN the words in parentheses are not included but at the start of Section 9 the word "must" is included. As there are two faults in the PCN it follows that Bank cannot pursue the keeper . And as the driver does not have a driving licence their case must fail on that alone. And that is not even taking into consideration that the payment was made. Point 23 [v] your company is wrong a payment was made. very difficult to prove a cash payment two weeks later when the PCN arrives. However the evidence was in your print out for anyone to see had they actually done due diligence prior to writing to the DVLA. Indeed as the Defendant had paid there was no reasonable cause to have applied for the keeper details. Point 24 the Defendant did not breach the contract. The PCN claimed the Defendant failed to make a payment when they had made a payment.   I haven't finished yet but that is something to start with
    • You don't appeal to anyone. You haven't' received a demand from a statutory body like the council, the police or the courts. It's just a dodgy cowboy company trying it on. You simply don't pay.  In the vast majority of these cases the company deforest the Amazon with threats about how they are going to divert a drone from Ukraine and make it land on your home - but in the end they do nothing.
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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You can apply for a time order after your creditor has taken you to court by using a general court application form called an N244 There will be a fee to pay with your application unless you do not have to pay the fee. You need to include full details of your circumstances and a full personal budget sheet with the application. There will be a hearing where the creditor can object to the time order being made. The district judge will decide whether to make a time order in your case.

If the creditor started action against you in a county court elsewhere you may need to apply for the case to be transferred to your local county court.

 

Is it 'just' to make a Time Order?

 

Make sure you add any points that may help the court decide that you case is "just". Remember: the court must look at the creditor's position as well as your circumstances.

  • Was the reason you took out the credit a "good" one?
  • Could you afford the payments when you first took out the agreement?
  • Is your agreement very expensive or not appropriate for your needs at the time? Point out a high interest rate and how much you would have to pay back over the whole loan period.
  • Have you taken out further credit since? If so, was there a good reason for this?
  • Have you had a good payment record until the point you stopped paying?
  • What is the reason for your non payment? Have your circumstances changed? Explain the background to your situation.
  • Have you tried to sort out your problems and ask the creditor for a payment arrangement? (e.g. you haven't ignored the debt). If the creditor has refused to negotiate you need to point this out. Start making the payments you have offered as a gesture of good will.
  • Is your situation temporary and likely to improve in the future? The court is likely to want to make a time order for a time limited period.

Regards

 

Andy

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Looks like the time order is a last resort before a ccj then. Can't see things improving particularly in the near future although I do do the lottery occasionally,

 

Further to one of your earlier posts Andy, I am pretty sure we have never received any arrears notices either, just payment demands from the agencies.

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Who is the Claimant on the Summons ?

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Have you detailed the P.o.C or if not can you verbatim (less any identifiable data)

Point me to the post if you already have I LIke.

 

Andy

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36

The claimant claims the sum of XXXXfor debt and interest. The defendant was indebted to Egg Banking PLC

for credit advanced. The debt was assigned to the claimant. Notice of assignment was given to the defendant.

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. The sum of xxxxx

2.Statutory interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at a rate

of 8.00% per annum from xx/xx/xx to xx/xx £xxx, & thereafter at a daily rate of

xxx until judgment or sooner payment.

 

 

 

 

I think this is what you need Andy. Once again, I am sure that they did not send me any NOA.

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Thanks ILB

 

Jump over to Tinks thread, I have just posted on his P.o.C (exactly same as yours).

Read what I have stated about the process of defences.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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36

The claimant claims the sum of XXXXfor debt and interest. The defendant was indebted to Egg Banking PLC

for credit advanced. The debt was assigned to the claimant. Notice of assignment was given to the defendant.

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. The sum of xxxxx

2.Statutory interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at a rate

of 8.00% per annum from xx/xx/xx to xx/xx £xxx, & thereafter at a daily rate of

xxx until judgment or sooner payment.

 

 

 

 

I think this is what you need Andy. Once again, I am sure that they did not send me any NOA.

 

Strict them to proof that the NOA was sent as per section 196 (4) law of property act 1925 and was absolute as per section 136 law of property act 1925.

 

section 196 requires it to be sent registered post and section 136 requires, for assignee (DCA) to be legally entilted to the debt, that the NOA was written and sent by the assignor (OC) to the alleged debtor and not sent by the assignee (DCA).

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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As said earlier. NOA should be sent RD - but they never are - and there are many cases of a judge saying "well - you admit you got it - so doesn't really matter if RD or not"

 

In YOUR case J&P are claiming it WAS sent - so if you keep denying you got it then it might buy you something - as they should be asked to PROVE it - by your signature on the Royal mail RD paperwork. If everything you have looks as if it came from microfiche or Computer printouts - (i.e not a photocopy of the original CCA) then I would do a CPUTR 2008 (see PriortyOne's thread on this) as it might just get everything put on hold. Have you looked at the Carey judgement regarding what should be sent in response to a CCA request? You probably haven't got half of what you should have got - especially if the T&C's were ever varied.

 

I also have an AK debt they bought from Egg - but they have currently gone quiet as they can't find the CCA (which I asked for in Dec 2009!) and Egg haven't complied woith my SAR request (sent to Egg in Oct 2009!). I got a dodgy "NOA" from AK by ordinary post - not even on official letter head, no details of my specific account etc. - if it comes to it I'll ask them to prove it was actually sent RD and signed for at my end.

 

AK's incompetence got me off an £11k Morgan Stanley cardit card debt which they had bought in 2006/2007 - but never ever chased up - other than a single letter saying they now owned the debt and could I please pay them now and not Morgan Stanley! This debt became time barred in Nov 2010 - so it might be worth playing a long game - and see if they drop the ball?

 

Good luck!

 

BD

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36

The claimant claims the sum of XXXXfor debt and interest. The defendant was indebted to Egg Banking PLC

for credit advanced. The debt was assigned to the claimant. Notice of assignment was given to the defendant.

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. The sum of xxxxx

2.Statutory interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at a rate

of 8.00% per annum from xx/xx/xx to xx/xx £xxx, & thereafter at a daily rate of

xxx until judgment or sooner payment.

 

 

 

 

In all the response that they sent to your SAR is there any mention at all of statutory or contractual interest and the fact that EGG will apply it if you default on the debt? if there is not then you should dispute this irrespective of what else you defend or dispute.

 

If the agreement they have sent you a copy of is a generic one and they use words like 'they would have' then you counter by stating that their failure to produce the original document leaves you unable to audit their claims - you have a right to be able to audit all charges

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DnC

 

Very good points there! I've hit your star!

BD

 

PS - I note you've been in CAG since Sept 2008 and only made 84 posts? With great advice like that to give you should be posting more often - and also climbing up the green blob ranks! :-D

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Responding to your PM I Like.

 

The fact that they have disregarded your request re NoA would appear the be a sticking point

I would not advocate chasing that one exclusion (at this stage) but try to concentrate on building a defence

with this inclusion and also the behavior of the Claimant in bringing this claim.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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ilike banks,

 

Did you not get an NOA either?

GE MONEY - DEBENHAMS CARD

Settled in full after prelim :)

 

MBNA

Settled after LBA

however mistake made by me on contractual interest so going after the rest now

SETTLED IN FULL JAN 2007:)

 

MINT

Offer after prelim rejected

Settled in full after LBA:)

 

to go:

Barclays Bus Ac - to mcol

Barclays CC - to mcol

Nat West (over 6 years) no action taken yet

Creation Financial - awaiting statements since Dec

Goldfish - offer after prelim rejected

and some more

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Guys if you conduct everything through PMs you are really isolating yourselves from the Forum

and will not receive any input..

 

Andy

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Re: your advice above regarding the building of a defence, should I basically follow this route -

 

1/. Refute the premise that there is a debt to Egg by virtue of a non compliant agreement.

 

2/. Bring into play the agreement was put into dispute after ARC's and Moorcrofts failure to comply with my CCA request.

 

3/. Whilst the CCA request remains in default they are not able to pass the debt on or pursue it.

 

4/. I have never recieved any AS's

 

 

5/. I have never (as far as I am aware) received a DN.

 

6/. I have never been issued with a NOA as per the requirements of the 1925 Property Act and that the solicitors, despite being asked to furnish a copy under CPR31.14 have not supplied.

 

 

 

With reference to this thread : http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?309473-Advice-needed-on-court-summons/page2 - do I contact the solicitors again to request the NOA? under CPR31.14

 

Is there a method whereby I can force them to provide (or not) valid DN and Annual statements?

 

Sorry for all he questions, but I need to get a bit of a wriggle on here as time is running out!

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Re: your advice above regarding the building of a defence, should I basically follow this route -

 

1/. Refute the premise that there is a debt to Egg by virtue of a non compliant agreement. Risky unless you know your agreements and are prepared to argue its deficiencies

 

2/. Bring into play the agreement was put into dispute after ARC's and Moorcrofts failure to comply with my CCA request. Valid point

3/. Whilst the CCA request remains in default they are not able to pass the debt on or pursue it. Valid point

 

4/. I have never received any AS's (ANs Arrears Notices) only valid if they are trying to claim interest

 

5/. I have never (as far as I am aware) received a DN. Worth mentioning but not a requirement your word against theirs

6/. I have never been issued with a NOA as per the requirements of the 1925 Property Act and that the solicitors, despite being asked to furnish a copy under CPR31.14 have not supplied. Valid point

 

 

With reference to this thread : http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?309473-Advice-needed-on-court-summons/page2 - do I contact the solicitors again to request the NOA? under CPR31.14 No as I have said you have requested it once they have not responded they will have to prove it at some stage

 

Is there a method whereby I can force them to provide (or not) valid DN and Annual statements? In your Directions at AQ stage

 

Sorry for all he questions, but I need to get a bit of a wriggle on here as time is running out!

 

I may have already asked this but are there any unfair charges or PPI involved or harassment?

I would envisage that your main argument would centre on the NoA and DN but you can pack it with the above points you have raised.

Playing devils advocate if you had received a valid NoA and DN would you accept their claim and admit ?

Regards

Andy

 

 

 

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There are no unfair charges, certainly not of any significance, as far as I can see.

 

Would I admit? I'm so sure I have not received a NOA, so that question is a little hard to answer at the mo. And I'm sure we have not recieved any Annual Statements etc either. I guess, given a valid NOA etc., then it would depend on the perceived strength of the original agreement they have supplied.

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The fact that you (think) you have not received a NoA is not substantial enough to base ones defence on

and would probably (without the odd exception) be accepted by most DJs

 

Now the fact that you infer that the CCA is (in your opinion) deficient can be argued if you can cut the mustard.

 

The Fact that you have never received any ANs or Annual statement from the assignee has got merit.

 

 

CCA2006 amendments

 

 

11Failure to give notice of sums in arrears

 

“86DFailure to give notice of sums in arrears"

 

(1)This section applies where the creditor or owner under an agreement is under a duty to give the debtor or hirer notices under section 86B but fails to give him such a notice—

(a)within the period mentioned in subsection (2)(a) of that section; or

(b)within the period of six months beginning with the day after the day on which such a notice was last given to him.

(2)This section also applies where the creditor under an agreement is under a duty to give the debtor a notice under section 86C but fails to do so before the end of the period mentioned in subsection (2) of that section.

(3)The creditor or owner shall not be entitled to enforce the agreement during the period of non-compliance.

(4)The debtor or hirer shall have no liability to pay—

(a)any sum of interest to the extent calculated by reference to the period of non-compliance or to any part of it; or

(b)any default sum which (apart from this paragraph)—

(i)would have become payable during the period of non-compliance; or

(ii)would have become payable after the end of that period in connection with a breach of the agreement which occurs during that period (whether or not the breach continues after the end of that period).

(5)In this section ‘the period of non-compliance’ means, in relation to a failure to give a notice under section 86B or 86C to the debtor or hirer, the period which—

(a)begins immediately after the end of the period mentioned in (as the case may be) subsection (1)(a) or (b) or (2); and

(b)ends at the end of the day mentioned in subsection (6).

(6)That day is—

(a)in the case of a failure to give a notice under section 86B as mentioned in subsection (1)(a) of this section, the day on which the notice is given to the debtor or hirer;

(b)in the case of a failure to give a notice under that section as mentioned in subsection (1)(b) of this section, the earlier of the following—

(i)the day on which the notice is given to the debtor or hirer;

(ii)the day on which the condition mentioned in subsection (4)(a) of that section is satisfied;

©in the case of a failure to give a notice under section 86C, the day on which the notice is given to the debtor.”

 

 

Now if these companies wish to purchase debts that the OC as wrote off not wished to litigate for what ever reason and also claimed tax relief on

then the responsibilities and clauses of taking over such a debt must be complied with as with any responsible lender.

 

So even if the CCA is or is not deficient makes no difference if you take the above into account.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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So, just to clarify the above view Andy, you believe that if they have failed to issue Arrears Notices or Annual Statements, they have lost the right to pursue me, making any agreement, compliant or not, irrelevant?

 

Whats to stop them 'reconstructing' them and producing them as evidence?

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(3)The creditor or owner shall not be entitled to enforce the agreement during the period of non-compliance.

 

 

Nothing to stop them but it would appear obvious that they are back tracking to correct their error and apart from that it would be Illegal.

Andy

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  • 1 month later...

Hi ILB responding to your PM

 

What date was your agreement from, just to refresh me?

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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