Aktiv Kapital & their hounds

[Ilike banks]

Hi,

 

My wife is being chased by AK regarding a 2004 Egg credit card which she was paying instalments in until about 18 months ago when we found this site.

 

We SAR AK and eventuially they sent us a copy of her application (the standard sort of one..) and several unsigned pages of T&C's.

 

I felt that there were the usual bits missing after reserarching here and so ignored it. However she recieved today a letter from Judge & Priestley demanding payment.

 

What does the CG collective recommend?

 

[TINK660]

subbing - received exactly the same letter this morning. Exact same circumstances too.

[Revenant]

Hi Ilb & Tink

 

If You haven't already send a CCA request to AK . . http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?414-CCA-request-letter. (Enclose £1 PO/Print do not sign your name and send recorded del) . . this will see if they in fact have the appropriate agreement and if no full reply after 12+2 working days the account goes into dispute and collection activity must stop until they comply

 

Also send a copy of the request (No fee though) to J & P so they know what you've done

 

Good luck

 

R

 

ps . . J & P say you can pay by Credit Card which goes against OFT Guidelines as they should not encourage extending borrowing to pay debts

[teaboy2]

send them this,

 

Dear Sirs

 

I refer to your letter of XXXXX 2008, the content of which is noted. No debt to your client is acknowledged.

 

On (date) I made a formal request to your client pursuant to s.78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. They have failed to comply within the statutory time limit, or at all. It should not be necessary to have to remind solicitors that the provisions of s.78(6) now apply.

 

In the circumstances, your/your clients threat of legal action would appear to be a breach of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading Guidance on debt collection. Should you or your client bring proceedings, they will be robustly defended, and the Court's attention drawn to the above statutory breaches . Furthermore, I reserve the right to bring the conduct of your client to the Court when the issue of costs is being considered.

 

Note: The lack of a valid consumer credit agreement is a complete defense in court.

 

If there is any further letters from you attempting to collect this disputed account, you will be charged a admin fee of £25 and reported to the Solicitors Regulation Authority.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Print name do not sign.

[Ilike banks]

Who would I send a SAR to, the solicitor or AK?

[TINK660]

Ilikebanks,

What did you actually receive in response to your previous SAR - I received a signed cca with APPROVED stamped on it and 21 pages of terms and conditions. The agreement does not contain the credit limit. I dont know whether the "so called agreement" is enforceable in itself because I am not sure what it should contain.

[teaboy2]

@TIINK

 

It should contain prescribed terms, credit limit being one of them along with apr etc.

 

Can you post it up on here using photo bucket minus your personal details.

 

@ILIKEBANKS

 

Send SAR to AK

[Revenant]

Who would I send a SAR to, the solicitor or AK?

 

 

Why do you want to send another SAR ???

 

R

[teaboy2]

Who would I send a SAR to, the solicitor or AK?

 

Also send CCA to AK if you haven't already done so. But to be honest you should not need to send a SAR to AK as all you need if the credit agreement from them for now. a sar is something you generally send to the original creditor not a DCA or Solicitor.

[TINK660]

teaboy,

Sorry I cant post agreement as I dont have a scanner, would the letter above apply to me as well? There is definitely no credit limit on the agreement though but apr is.

[Ilike banks]

I have'nt sent a SAR to them yet.

[Revenant]

I have'nt sent a SAR to them yet.

 

 

I'm confused as this is from your first post . .

 

" We SAR AK and eventuially they sent us a copy of her application (the standard sort of one..) and several unsigned pages of T&C's. "

 

If you didn't send a SAR request what did you send to get the info they sent back

 

R

[teaboy2]

teaboy,

Sorry I cant post agreement as I dont have a scanner, would the letter above apply to me as well? There is definitely no credit limit on the agreement though but apr is.

 

If any of the following are missing then the agreement is not in the prescribed form and as such unenforceable meaning the letter i suggest above applies to you.

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

• amount of credit – see Q8.
  

 

• credit limit – see Q8.5 Which you said was missing
  
  
• rate of interest – see Q8.6
  
• repayments – see Q8.9.
  
• Also terms and conditions must be contained within the same 4 corners of the same piece of paper, front or back. If on the back they must be a reference to the terms and conditions being overleaf on the front.
  
  

[TINK660]

Thanks teaboy, letter going out in the post tomorrow morning, no credit limit, no repayments and terms and conditions on 21 additional a4 pages

[Ilike banks]

Well I got the usual stuff back from AK after the request under the CCA.

 

 

I also got back the current t&c's running to 7 A4 pages and 23 different headings.

There were also some earlier t&c's runnint to just 2 pages and 19 headings. There were no signautures or dates on either sets of terms and conditions.

 

An interesting point is that on the application and the older t&c's, at the top of the page is a web address (www.egg.com/banking/investing/insuring)

 

I presume this means that they are held on a microfiche and therefore are copies. That web address does not work today either.

 

I have read the CPUTR thread, but wonder if there is a template I could send, given the info above?

Edited May 17, 2011 by Ilike banks

[Ilike banks]

Personally, I think they are barking.. BUMP!

[Helios]

That all ak sent, signature looks part of egg agreement wheres the other part?? as for t&c they need to be when the card was first taken not the current. They chancing their arm here has this got any ppi on?

[Ilike banks]

Well hooray! Just got a similar CC claim form today.

 

I am pretty certain they are out of order as I don't think the paperwork is correct. All I have received is about a ream of statements, a copy of the signed agreement and some undated and unsigned terms and conditions.

 

However, is a deficient agreement still enough to win - there seems to be some feeling on CAG that judges are finding in favour of the claimant anyway.

 

Here's both pages again.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2011 by Ilike banks

[Ilike banks]

Well hooray! Just got a similar CC claim form today.

 

I am pretty certain they are out of order as I don't think the paperwork is correct. All I have received is about a ream of statements, a copy of the signed agreement and some undated and unsigned terms and conditions.

 

However, is a deficient agreement still enough to win - there seems to be some feeling on CAG that judges are finding in favour of the claimant anyway.

 

Here's both pages again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Am I too late to ask them if they have the original document under CPUTR 2008? I guess I need to sort out a defence to this issue PDQ, so any help would be gratefully recieved.

[Ilike banks]

Bumps a daisy!

[teaboy2]

will without anything on those documents referring to any terms and conditions overleaf (T & C's must be within the same 4 corners of the same document), then i would say its unenforceable. Problem is will they produce the original in court with the terms on the back which would then be enforceable. If the conditions were on a seperate document then they may well be screwed.

 

Who owns the debt, have you ever had a notice of assignment? Default notice?

 

@Tink

 

I sent you the pm with my fax number it over the weekend, did you get it?

[Ilike banks]

They have sent me some terms and conditions which run to 4 pages and are separate to the 2 page agreement above. There is no cross referencing. This mess was previously in the hands of two other well known agencies dating from 2008. I have previously sent both of those agencies 'account in dispute' letters after receipt from them of non compliant agreements.

 

At one point I have received a blank version of the docs above, with page one and two being on the same piece of paper. I am fairly sure all the files are stored on a computer hard drive somewhere judging by the network address on the top of the page. Also, the terms and conditions I received at one point were in the form of pc screenshots.

 

 

I have never received a notice of assignment from anyone, which I understand have to be sent, according to the 1925 property Act, by recorded delivery.

 

Not sure about a default notice I'm afraid.

 

And nope, didn't get a fax number in my pm box either.

[teaboy2]

The Fax number was ment for TINK as he/she doesn't have a scanner so i offered to scan them up for them if they can fax them to me.

 

Sounds to me as if you have evidence of many different documents that were supposedly the agreement, so you may have prove that the docs are fabrications, as if they have the original then we produce so many different documents not resembling each other.

 

Yes if Egg have sold the account to the DCA then they must issue you a default notice under section 87 of the CCA, selling an account and failing to issue a default is inlawful rescission which prevents the debt being enforced in court. Do not mention this till we know for certain you have not received a default notice and that the account has definitely been sold.

 

And yes you should have received a notice of assignment confirming the debt was sold

 

Best thing would be the SAR Egg to find out if it has been sold and if default notice was issued.

[Ilike banks]

Will do. Thanks.

[citizenB]

If you have received a claim form, then you need to decide if you are going to defend the claim and and on what grounds. It is extremely difficult to defend claims on the grounds of unenforceability nowadays. So you will need to challenge the standing of the claimant, especially if you havent received a Notice of Assignment, and yes you are correct, it should have been sent to you by recorded delivery post.

 

You can request any documents mentioned in the claim via CPR31.14.. you will find a draft letter in the first post of the link below. Read it carefully and amend where necessary.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?159445-Getting-Them-To-Reveal-Their-Vitals.-Using-CPR-31.14-to-Your-Advantage

 

Please be aware you need to keep on top of your timing..

 

Date of issue of claim form - top right hand side under claim number.. add 5 days to that to allow for receipt. You then get a further 14 days to acknowledge the claim form and advise whetehr you are going to defend or not. If you are then you will receive a further 14 days.

 

If you can let us know what it says exactly on the claim form .. the particulars of claim.. then we can help further.