Electronic Signature for Online Applications

[Jonny_J]

No probs. Anytime.

[beyondgrey]

I have recently received one of these fabricated documents from Lowell regarding an alleged MBNA debt, numerous mistakes throughout the 2 documents sent and even different information from the initial Lowell letter i received 2 months ago.

 

Thanks to RI and JJ for all the information on this electronic signature business, plenty of reading but worth it for a good cause.

 

Cheers!

[RoyalIrish]

Could you scan them and post them up?

 

Remove all your personal details first!

 

If Lowell's think they can get away with this they will exploit it to death and attempt to fleece anyone that they cannot produce a CCA for after request!

 

I presume that they sent this garbage after a CCA request?

 

RI

[beyondgrey]

Hi RI

I will have a go at scanning them at work, not much privacy settings on our system unfortunately so slightly concerned about what could happen!!

 

Thats correct, it was a CCA request for a unknown alleged debt.

 

To make a long story short, i received a letter 2 months ago from Lowells stating that i had debt owing to them, CCA requested them and 1 month later i have these documents in my hand.

The first is the standard CCA agreement that they seem to be doing, electronic signiture box at the end followed by 3 pages of the rest of the T&C

The second document is a 'copy of my agreement' which has a different address to the first document, its also missing pages, date and most importantly a name, some of the definitions are different than the first copy also.

Another notable point is that the date of agreement on the first document and the date that is noted on the initial letter from them (Statement of Account) is completely different.

 

Funny one huh!

[RoyalIrish]

Lowell's are complete chancers and they are 'trying it on' with you.

 

They must now reckon that any CCA request that cannot be fulfilled by sending the original CCA because it simply doesn't exist or is lost etc. etc. can be overcome by sending their bluffed 'Electronic Signature' spreadsheet and hoping that the recipient is niave enough to accept this as legitimate.

 

It's really pathetic but shows you what kind of outfit Lowell's really are and the depths to which they will stoop to get an easy kill.

 

When you think about it, they can print these off at their leisure and claim that any account that they haven't got a valid CCA for was opened under the 'Electronic Signature' Act.

 

The info that they are printing on these documents can be easily obtained from the account details when they get them, this would explain their inaccuracy and vagueness.

 

I envisage that this is going to cause major problems very soon with all DCA's and we need to get this into court.

 

PLEASE, get the spreadsheet scanned and posted so I can compare to mine.

 

If the MBNA one that you were sent and the Vanquis one are similar in layout and content then this will add significant weight to the 'fabricated for deception' hypothesis.

 

How can Vanquis and MBNA have the same spreadsheet?

 

RI

[beyondgrey]

Its not a speadsheet (like i have seen on here from Vanquis) its actually a document.

 

Im in the process of scanning it now and ill put it up for you as soon as i have paint/ photoshop in front of me

 

It would be good to have someone elses opinion on this.

[ajpoolshark]

Hi, I've been following this thread with interest, as I'm in a similar position...Vanquis CC debt went on the DCA 'magic roundabout' eventually ending up with cabot...I CCA'd them, and eventually (after 2 months) they sent me though a final response letter with a the digital signature 'document' thats been mentioned in the thread and copies of the TOC's, one copy from when the card was issued and an updated one varied in 2009...I've had a good look at the documentation and compared it with the OFT's guidlines on CCA enforcebility, and my take is that if the digital signature doc has your personal details correct (as they were at the time the card was applied for) and a copy of the origianl TOC's (plus any variances since) and a recent statement of account (with current balance) then the DCA has complied with S77/78 and you'll have a tough time convincing a judge otherwise if it goes to court....I could be wrong on this, after all it's just my interpretation but worth baring in mind (like yourselves though, I wouldn't mind one of the more experienced members have a look at this thread and comment.....I'm still very interested in the outcome though, as my 'alleged' debt is around £700, but if I put in a PPI reclaim through Vanquis, the balance would probably be wiped...I'm just wondering what route to take, PPI reclaim or wait on enforcability outcome?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I think you should wait and see.

The likely hood is that a judge would on the balance of

probabilities rule that with the documents provided the

debt is enforceable.

[RoyalIrish]

As far as my wife and I are concerned it doesn't really matter if they are enforcable or not anymore.

 

We have decided that we would rather go bankrupt than pay Lowell's a single penny (shame).

 

Lowell's treatment of us, their lies and harrassment and the fact that they 'deliberately' trashed out credit files has ensured this.

 

I have about £4,000 outstanding on 2 credit cards and my wife has about £11,000 on catalogs, credit cards and store cards etc.

 

Due to the recent 'uselessness' of CCA enforcability etc. this seems like a good move.

 

I know £4,000 isn't a lot and if the OC's still held the accounts I guess I would pay them off but NOT for a DCA, NO WAY!

 

They will not see any money from us, ever!

 

It would be a weight lifted from our shoulders.

[beyondgrey]

Hi, I've been following this thread with interest, as I'm in a similar position...Vanquis CC debt went on the DCA 'magic roundabout' eventually ending up with cabot...I CCA'd them, and eventually (after 2 months) they sent me though a final response letter with a the digital signature 'document' thats been mentioned in the thread and copies of the TOC's, one copy from when the card was issued and an updated one varied in 2009...I've had a good look at the documentation and compared it with the OFT's guidlines on CCA enforcebility, and my take is that if the digital signature doc has your personal details correct (as they were at the time the card was applied for) and a copy of the origianl TOC's (plus any variances since) and a recent statement of account (with current balance) then the DCA has complied with S77/78 and you'll have a tough time convincing a judge otherwise if it goes to court....I could be wrong on this, after all it's just my interpretation but worth baring in mind (like yourselves though, I wouldn't mind one of the more experienced members have a look at this thread and comment.....I'm still very interested in the outcome though, as my 'alleged' debt is around £700, but if I put in a PPI reclaim through Vanquis, the balance would probably be wiped...I'm just wondering what route to take, PPI reclaim or wait on enforcability outcome?

 

So the exact dates of when the application was submitted/ approved have to be correct when a digital signiture document is 'reconstructured'?. I recently queried this with a DCA as there had been two different dates given to me. My understanding is that when a CCA is reconstructed, it must be accurate.

 

Also, as im new to all of this, what unfair charges could be claimed back and what would be the way to do so?

 

Thanks,

[RoyalIrish]

The 'digital signature document' that was recently sent by Vanquis/Lowell's etc. isn't a valid document, it's simply a turd that is made up to 'look' like a valid document.

 

It contains all sorts of errors and factual mistakes that are supposed to come from data submitted by the induvidual when applying for credit, therein lies the problem.

 

IF the iduvidual DID apply for credit then the company should have these information EXACTLY as it was submitted and approved NOT by guessing, approximation or a rough estimation.

 

These documents MUST be legitimate and reconstucted from accurate records for the account they represent NOT made up of info taken from other sources, that would constitute FRAUD in my humble opinion.

 

The problem with dates are that in order to disprove an 'incorrect' date you must have proof of the 'correct' date, this in itself is an admission of liability and so not really worth the hassle.

 

The best way to play this out in my opinion is to take them right to the wire, let them do all the work, get it into court, whatever the outcome the result is not going to place us in any worse position.

 

RI

[beyondgrey]

Thanks very much for the information, no dates acknowledged as i am not aware of any.

 

Does a statement of account have to be sent with a CCA?

Edited July 12, 2011 by beyondgrey

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes the statement forms part of the request.

[lewte]

Hi Everyone,

 

 

I sent 2 CCA letters into Lowells last week.

 

Received 1 letter saying they will leave me alone whilst they get the info from Vanquis?? Thought they'd have it as they say they own it. Pretty much expecting to get the concocted print out as you guys.

 

Haven't had any response from them for my second CCA request involving CAP 1.

 

Will watch this thread with much interest.

 

Lewte x Still smiling

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

When debts are sold it is in bulk with little detail, no contracts are provided by the OC

basically name address, contact details balance of account:madgrin:

[the_shadow]

When debts are sold it is in bulk with little detail, no contracts are provided by the OC

basically name address, contact details balance of account:madgrin:

 

Indeed Brig,

 

Normally just a spreadsheet of info accompanies the deed of sale which will just state "accounts"

 

S.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Just shows how gullible the cretins be Oh, hello we've got lots of debts here, gong cheap give us ££££, you can have'em

 

95% are lemons but were not telling you.

[Jonny_J]

Quick update guys,

 

I questioned the validity of this spreadsheet with Lowell pointing out that some of the details were in fact incorrect at the end of July. They said that they would look into it and get back to me. The result? Silence as yet!

[lee_st3]

Hi guys,

 

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd add to this one as it's spot on for what i need.

 

These 'spreadsheets' from Lowell's....are they legal then?

 

I've received one, I'm going to challenge it

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi guys,

 

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd add to this one as it's spot on for what i need.

 

These 'spreadsheets' from Lowell's....are they legal then?

 

 

I've received one, I'm going to challenge it

 

 

 

One must view any such document produced by a DCA/Debt Purchaser with suspicion in my opinion!

[lee_st3]

One must view any such document produced by a DCA/Debt Purchaser with suspicion in my opinion!

 

Totally agree!

 

I also agree with previous posts in this thread regarding the validity of origin, it certainly looks like Lowell's have got the apprentice to knock this document up!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Totally agree!

 

I also agree with previous posts in this thread regarding the validity of origin, it certainly looks like Lowell's have got the apprentice to knock this document up!

Yes it seems that they have taken parts of quite a few documents and tried to make a viable spread sheet imo Lowell have failed completely.

[lee_st3]

Hi guys,

 

Just to give you an update.

 

After Lowell's sent through their made up spreadsheet trying to be the Vanquis contract, I challenged it - along with 3 other defaulted accounts Lowell have of mine.

 

Long story short, the spreadsheet they sent isn't worth a thing. As a result of this and the challenge on the other accounts, all 4 defaulted accounts under Lowells name have been wiped from my credit files

 

Win Win

[Eagle1977]

Hi guys,

 

Just to give you an update.

 

After Lowell's sent through their made up spreadsheet trying to be the Vanquis contract, I challenged it - along with 3 other defaulted accounts Lowell have of mine.

 

Long story short, the spreadsheet they sent isn't worth a thing. As a result of this and the challenge on the other accounts, all 4 defaulted accounts under Lowells name have been wiped from my credit files

 

Win Win

 

Hi Lee

 

I have one of these digital signature application forms sent to me by Vanquis. They have placed a default on my credit file in respect to this debt. How did you challenge the document and did you actually get the default removed?

 

Please help as I'm desperate to get this sorted

 

Thanks

 

Eagle

[lee_st3]

Hi Lee

 

I have one of these digital signature application forms sent to me by Vanquis. They have placed a default on my credit file in respect to this debt. How did you challenge the document and did you actually get the default removed?

 

Please help as I'm desperate to get this sorted

 

Thanks

 

Eagle

 

Hello mate,

 

I've just typed a massive message up and it hasn't posted for some reason ha!

 

All you need to do is reply saying it isn't the original CCA and it is a Lowells attempt at fabricating evidence, which is extortion.

 

They'll send you a letter back saying it's now gone to the 8 week complaints procedure

 

You'll receive nothing in this time....

 

Send them a reminder letter after the 8 week date has passed from the time of your letter, and within 7 days you should revive a reply saying they've removed the account from their system.

 

Give the credit reference agencies at least 30 days from this letter to update their systems

 

Hope this helps

 

Lee