Santander/CCM issued claim for car finance on faulty DN/term - refused £1PCM sold it on

[Always Struggling]

I don't know how 'correct' this part is on the agreement, mid way down on the right hand side under 'key information'

 

You have no right to cancel this agreement

 

Nor do I understand the interest side of things. 18.4% APR then the 8.75% per annum?

 

I'm assuming it's all legal and above board, it's just that I have never seen an agreement state that you can't cancel.

Must be to do with the type of agreement.

 

Someone with more knowledge than me will confirm all is in order with the agreement.

[Always Struggling]

A thread for you to read naomi25:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?322587-CoffeeAngel-v-Halifax-Credit-Card-Claim-form-now-issued

 

It'll give you some idea of the possible process ahead. If you are prepared for what could lie ahead then you will be less daunted by the prospect of it

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

The agreement is not cancellable because it was signed on trade premises (i.e. at the dealer's). Also the APR and interest rate are not the same. As a general rule of thumb on a front-loaded agreement the APR is approximately twice the flat rate of interest, so this agreement looks ok.

[Always Struggling]

The agreement is not cancellable because it was signed on trade premises (i.e. at the dealer's). Also the APR and interest rate are not the same. As a general rule of thumb on a front-loaded agreement the APR is approximately twice the flat rate of interest, so this agreement looks ok.

 

I did a bit reading last night and saw that cancellable agreements are ones signed away from the business premises, i.e. own home etc. (my understanding anyway)

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply and your confirmation GG

[Always Struggling]

What would be the best course of action as they haven't complied with the Part18,14 days have passed since they received it.

 

Should the 'embarrassed' defence be best submitted this week (say, send Wednesday 14th to arrive Thirsday 15th)?

 

Bringing the failure to comply to CPR Part18 (within the allotted time of 14days plus your extension application allowing more time for them to comply) to the courts attention.

 

Stating that you feel there would be insufficient time to compile a defence in such a timescale even if they replied to your CPR Part18 by Wednesday14th/Thursday 15th and you feel they are not taking their CPR duties seriously after giving them longer than actually required. As such they have hindered your every effort to aid in solving matters and just as their previous correspondence has shown, they try to confuse matters rather than clear them.

 

Being a LiP I feel that if I am able to learn these rules from scratch in a short period of time then they should be able to demonstrate them even moreso to help the courts procedures. I can't help but think when these companies want a CCJ they are quite happy to use the system process when it's undefended.

 

As soon as a case is defended they don't appear to like the due process involved and want to try everything in their power to manipulate the system and hinder the courts ability of aiding in the clarification of any given situation.

[citizenB]

I would be inclined to have the defence in a couple of days prior to the final submission date.

[Always Struggling]

I would be inclined to have the defence in a couple of days prior to the final submission date.

 

My thoughts as well

 

One question CB (or anyone else) :

 

I take it that even if they sent the required info on Thursday for example, we would just have a new date allocated for submitting an amended defence and they couldn't complain too much saying they sent it, especially if it was just 48hrs before any defence was expected to be submitted?

[Always Struggling]

I think I have missed a 'step'.

 

As they have failed to fully comply with the CPR31.14 and failed completely with the CPR Part 18. Should there be a letter sent to them reminding them of their duties etc.

 

I have seen mention of the N244 application but don't fully understand that aspect.

 

Any advice on this?

 

Or is it sufficiently covered in the defence above?

[asokn]

 

I take it that even if they sent the required info on Thursday for example, we would just have a new date allocated for submitting an amended defence

 

I haven't read through your thread so this may not be accurate but generally if the court tells you to file a defence by a certain time then you must do so; there will be no automatic extension of time unless you agree it with the other side or get a court order to that effect.

[Always Struggling]

Thanks asokn, I wasn't clear. What I meant was;

 

a defence is filed by the date without them complying to the CPR, then what happens?

[naomi25]

Have today recieved a letter from their solicitor saying that they are willing to reduce the debt to £3,378.40. I am not in a position to do this anyway. Shall i respond to the letter or not? Thanks

[asokn]

Thanks asokn, I wasn't clear. What I meant was;

 

a defence is filed by the date without them complying to the CPR, then what happens?

 

You can apply to compel them to comply with your request. Others can tell you if that's worthwhile in your case.

 

As for their letter, why not reply and if applicable suggest monthly repayments rather than a lump sum?

[Always Struggling]

Court confirmed they got naomi25's defence and now it's a case of waiting for a response from their sols.

[citizenB]

They have 28 days in which to decide if they are going to move forward with it. After that it gets stayed automatically and either side can apply to have it lifted.. at a cost

[naomi25]

Yesterday I received a letter from their solicitors, below is what it says

 

We write with reference to your defence dated 14th March 2012 the contents of which are noted.

 

Santander categorically deny receiving any purported section 77 request from you prior to assigning the debt and we therefore request a copy of the letter and delivery receipt as stated by return that we may refer the matter back to Santander.

 

Your defence is pleaded on the basis that the claim is insufficiently particularised and also that you have not been provided with a copy of the agreement. As the claim is issued out of County Court Bulk Centre, the information and the attached documentation you state is missing is not required as CPR7.10 and specifically Practice Direction 7C 1.4(4) is introduced to address the limitations imposed by usage of the Bulk Centre.

 

Furthermore our records show that a copy of the agreement was posted to you on 7 March 2012 by way of first class. CPR6.14 confirms this as good service and is deemed served 2 business days later being 9th March 2012. As your defence is dated 14 March 2012 we believe that you were in possession of a copy of the agreement before you filed the defence and we are therefore under obligation to draw this to the attention of the court. For the avoidance of any further doubt we enclose a further copy for your ease of reference.

 

However as the debt balance falls within the remit of the Small Claims Track our client are willing to take a commercial view of this matter and we hereby invite your offer of settlement.

[naomi25]

I have the reciept for the section 77 request that i sent to Santander aswell as the letter, shall i send them a copy of them?

 

Also what shall i do next?

[Always Struggling]

I think it would be a case of sending them a copy of the sect77 request letter and the proof of signature (showing the date it was signed for).

 

As for the part where they state they have sent the agreement I would mention that although they have sent a copy of the agreement they have not provided the copy of NoA which was also requested and therefore they have not fully responded. Apologise for the lack of the word 'fully'.

 

I'm not sure on addressing the issue in respect to the bulk centre etc. I believe that until it is assigned to a track you are able to request this information.

 

Someone will be along soon enough to help with this

 

AS

[citizenB]

Yesterday I received a letter from their solicitors, below is what it says

 

We write with reference to your defence dated 14th March 2012 the contents of which are noted.

 

Santander categorically deny receiving any purported section 77 request from you prior to assigning the debt and we therefore request a copy of the letter and delivery receipt as stated by return that we may refer the matter back to Santander.

 

Your defence is pleaded on the basis that the claim is insufficiently particularised and also that you have not been provided with a copy of the agreement. As the claim is issued out of County Court Bulk Centre, the information and the attached documentation you state is missing is not required as CPR7.10 and specifically Practice Direction 7C 1.4(4) is introduced to address the limitations imposed by usage of the Bulk Centre.

 

Furthermore our records show that a copy of the agreement was posted to you on 7 March 2012 by way of first class. CPR6.14 confirms this as good service and is deemed served 2 business days later being 9th March 2012. As your defence is dated 14 March 2012 we believe that you were in possession of a copy of the agreement before you filed the defence and we are therefore under obligation to draw this to the attention of the court. For the avoidance of any further doubt we enclose a further copy for your ease of reference.

 

However as the debt balance falls within the remit of the Small Claims Track our client are willing to take a commercial view of this matter and we hereby invite your offer of settlement.

 

I have the reciept for the section 77 request that i sent to Santander aswell as the letter, shall i send them a copy of them?

 

Also what shall i do next?

 

Hmm, interesting dont you think.. Their statement above is extremely contradictory. They deny receiving something in the post.. which has been sent signed for and for which there is a receipt of delivery. Then when they send YOU something they fall back on CR 6.14 .. ??

 

Sadly, mail doesnt get delivered at times.. even when it has been sent using a signed for service. IMHO, they should be forced to send their mail out signed for. That way this problem is likely to go away.

 

Yes, you can send them a copy of your CCA request and COPY of the Signed for receipt.. if you have it, also send them a copy of the RD slip you received when you sent it.

 

Whilst issuing out of the Bulk centre does limit their ability to attach documents it does not prevent them sending this information out independantly or at the very least in swift response to a CPR request.

 

If they are basing their claim on this document, then it should have been in their possession at the time of issuing the claim.

[citizenB]

There is also the little matter of Pre Action protocol which clearly the solicitor and claimant in this case have failed to adhere to.

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_pre-action_conduct#IDAJVA2

[Always Struggling]

I'm assuming you refer to 9.2 and so perhaps asking them:

'if by providing this information they would clarify how this would help resolve the matter?'

 

although after reading through 6.1(1) the over riding principle. I wonder if 9.7 would be an appropriate mention back to them?

 

If I have got that wrong please let me know ...... always learning and can take a correction being pointed out lol

[Always Struggling]

Can CB or anyone else give comment on this as a possible response?

It would be much appreciated. No need to hold punches with anything I have got wrong. The main thing is it is done correctly

 

Dear blah blah blah,

 

Case No: xxxxxxxx

 

Claimant v defendant

 

I write in response to your letter dated xx/xx/xx.

 

You mention that you had sent the agreement copy as per my request. However, please note that the actual request was for a copy of the agreement and a copy of the Notice of Assignment.

 

As you have so keenly pointed out, you have indeed sent a copy of the agreement, unfortunately to fully respond and comply to this part of my request I would also have had to receive a copy of the Notice of Assignment, which you have unfortunately omitted.

 

I have duly noted your response and limitations in your ability to attach documents with a claim; however I would have thought that any reasonable request that could help clarify a situation could also be beneficial to a court.

 

I have to admit that I am not a legal expert and look to you for direction in this regard. However, I believe it would also be appropriate for me to bring to the courts attention your apparent failure of Pre-Action Protocols 9.2, 9.7 - specifically the overriding principles as stated 6.1(1).

 

For the purpose of resolving the matter please find enclosed my CCA sect77 request documentation as per your request: a copy of the signature (as provided from the Royal Mail website) for Santanders receipt of the sect77 CCA request and a copy of the sect. 77 letter.

 

I must admit it does appear to me to be a little unfair and a bit of a ‘one way street’ in regards to information and feel, while I am trying to assist in the clarification of matters freely, that you are not as willing to participate in the exchange of information, either before the court proceedings had begun or now during this process.

 

If it is helpful for the courts then perhaps I should reiterate my previous requests:

· CPR31.14

· A copy of agreement (received already with thanks)

· Copy of Notice of Assignment –

· And Part 18

· Was a Default Notice issued pursuant to section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) and if so:

· a] Upon what date, for what amount and what was the date for remedy of the breach?

· b] Was the issuance of the Default Notice noted in the communications log?

· Does the amount claimed include charges, and if so what amount?

 

I would appreciate your response in regards to the aforementioned informational requests.

 

Yours etc etc

 

[Always Struggling]

I have edited/condensed this down as (imo) it appeared to 'waffle' a bit.

 

Does this look ok for naomi25 to send?

 

In response to your letter dated xx/xx/xx

 

As you state a copy of the agreement was received from yourselves, however my CPR31.14 request was for both documents mentioned in your POC. Therefore to fully respond to my request I would have also recieved a copy of the Notice of Assignment, which you have omitted.

 

I accept your limitations in your ability to attach documents with a claim through the bulk centre; however I would have thought that a reasonable request that could help clarify a situation could also be beneficial to the court.

 

I am keen to assist you in any way I am able and so for the purpose of helping resolve the matter please find enclosed my CCA sect77 request documentation as per your request: a copy of the signature (as provided from the Royal Mail website) for Santanders receipt of the sect77 CCA request and a copy of the sect. 77 letter.

 

I would like to think that exchanging information to help clarify this matter isn't a one way street as this would appear to me unfair and ask you to reconsider answering my previous request.

 

For your benefit the previous request was as follows:

· CPR31.14

· A copy of agreement (received with thanks)

· Copy of Notice of Assignment –

· And part 18

· Was a Default Notice issued pursuant to section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) and if so:

· a] Upon what date, for what amount and what was the date for remedy of the breach?

· b] Was the issuance of the Default Notice noted in the communications log?

· Does the amount claimed include charges, and if so what amount?

 

I look forward to your response.

 

Yours etc etc

[Always Struggling]

Which letter would naomi25 be best to send to their sols?

 

The one including mention of pre action protocols or the second one without mentioning it?

 

Anyone?

[citizenB]

The one in post 145 looks very good to me

[Always Struggling]

Thanks CB .... always good to hear confirmation that I 'appear' to be on the right track and am gaining some understanding lol