Santander/CCM issued claim for car finance on faulty DN/term - refused £1PCM sold it on

[Always Struggling]

Pretty much what I had found.... looked under their previous name and company reg No. nadda.... according to the public records they have never had a licence, even before Bluestone (take over Nov 2011, I believe) I am trying to find some more info.

 

So far, on the face of it at least, it is beginning to look like they have possibly committed a criminal offence by purchasing the debt which occurred last May approx..

[Always Struggling]

Then the date of issue advised must be incorrect !

 

Their sols were in the same position as us I believe. According to their agreement to extension letter they had 3rd March for filing and agreed to extend to 17th March.

 

Go figure lol

[naomi25]

Dear Sir/madam

I request an extension in line with CPR 15.5 to my filing date to allow a defence to fully be prepared. I am awaiting a reply to my earlier CPR requests and until such time they arrive am unable to fully prepare my defence. I request that it be extended to 17th March 2012.

Does this paragraph look ok to send to the court along with a copy of their letter agreeing to their extension?

[Always Struggling]

Dear Sir/madam

I, the defendant, request an extension to my defence filing date in line with CPR 15.5 to 17th March 2012.

 

I am awaiting replies to my CPR requests from the claimant. Until such time they arrive I am unable to fully prepare my defence. The claimant has agreed that it be extended to 17th March 2012.

 

Hopefully someone will confirm it's ok. I have 'tweaked' it a bit just to clarify both sides agree the date

[citizenB]

Hi AS, sorry, I am not receiving email notifications at the moment.. so missed this.

 

Yes, that is fine and you will need to include the confirmation letter from the solicitors as well.

 

 

Phone Northampton and confirm it is ok to send by email with hard copy to follow by special delivery.

[Always Struggling]

thanks CB. naomi25 will be on to it priority tomorrow

[citizenB]

Letter I mentioned regarding lay representative is attached..

 

 

diddydicky - requesting permission to act.pdf

[citizenB]

Dont forget to put all the Court references on your CPR15.5 letter..

 

Court Claim number

Between Claimant v Naomi25

 

Then the text of your letter.

[naomi25]

Have sent the letters to court by special delivery today so they should receive the letters tomorrow. Have also rang the court and informed them of this, they have confirmed that they received a letter today from theirsolicitors agreeing to the extension, which is 17th March

Edited February 27, 2012 by naomi25

[Always Struggling]

All is good naomi25 then..... might be an idea to phone the court tomorrow lunchtime and confirm safe arrival of CPR extension request.

IMO I'd always like to know for definate that all is as it should be

 

Thankyou CB for the letter

[citizenB]

Excellent, if the claimant's confirmation has arrived as well then all is well with the world.

 

Now you need to keep on at the solicitor/claimant for any information that you need.

 

Do keep an eye on the calendar though.. if they havent supplied whatever it is you need then you are going to have to go with what you have.

[Always Struggling]

Will see what comes through over the next couple of weeks, they have plenty of time to comply, that doesn't mean alot I know.

[Always Struggling]

Now you need to keep on at the solicitor/claimant for any information that you need.

 

Do keep an eye on the calendar though.. if they havent supplied whatever it is you need then you are going to have to go with what you have.

 

What would be the best way to 'keep on' at the solicitor CB?

 

Give them until, say Monday 5th, then send a letter stating you still haven't received anything from them and ask why they haven't sent the information requested yet?

[citizenB]

You can either telephone them or write. If they are accepting email or fax (they dont always) then you can use that method as well.

[citizenB]

Have you confirmed your letters have been received by them ?

[Always Struggling]

Have you confirmed your letters have been received by them ?

 

Both received CB

CPR31.14 on 21st Feb

Part 18 on 23rd Feb

 

naomi will contact them on Monday.

 

Is there anything specific that can be said/written? Such as - 'Get your ass into gear and give me a reply or else?' lol

 

Or is it a case of just asking them to let you know when they expect to reply by?

[citizenB]

Simply point out that they have agreed to an extension in order to find and produce the information you have requested via CPR31.14 and respond to your CPR part 18. When can Naomi expect a response or if they are not going to, then you will have to bring this to the court's attention as they are denying you the opportunity to submit a fully particularised defence.

 

If speaking to them, you will need to ask for the file handler on your case.

 

Do NOT get sidetracked. You want the answer to a very simple question.. are they going to continue to refuse to respond to your requests. Follow up any conversation with a letter that sets out your understanding of the telephone conversation Unless you are in a position to record the call.

[Always Struggling]

naomi has spoken to them on the phone asking when to expect a response. Was told that her case handler wasn't in today. and the usual response time frame is 6 weeks from receiving a letter request.

 

Told naomi to write a letter to them with a summary of the call.

 

Spoke to miss xxxx on Tuesday 6th 9am and asked when to expect a response etc etc

 

If she is correct then I guess we are going to be looking at the infamous 'I am embarrassed' etc.

 

Clock is ticking, 10days and counting. How long before the clock running down should it be left before filing, day before?

 

Also, just so we are prepared, what do we do if the paperwork turns up the day before filing should be in?

[citizenB]

naomi has spoken to them on the phone asking when to expect a response. Was told that her case handler wasn't in today. and the usual response time frame is 6 weeks from receiving a letter request.

 

Told naomi to write a letter to them with a summary of the call.

 

Spoke to miss xxxx on Tuesday 6th 9am and asked when to expect a response etc etc

 

If she is correct then I guess we are going to be looking at the infamous 'I am embarrassed' etc.

 

Clock is ticking, 10days and counting. How long before the clock running down should it be left before filing, day before?

 

Also, just so we are prepared, what do we do if the paperwork turns up the day before filing should be in?

 

Ok, so they agreed to an extension of ?? but are now saying it will take 6 weeks to obtain the information.. !!

 

The extension should have allowed time for them to provide the information, plus at least 7-10 days for Naomi to review and submit her defence based on the paperwork provided. This obviously isnt going to happen.

 

I think any defence needs to be in at least 48 hours prior to the due date.

 

If Naomi hasnt yet written confirming the telephone conversation, I would say something along the lines of...

 

 

******************************

 

Dear Sir/Madam (Named person)

 

References

 

In respect of a telephone conversation between me and ??? on ??? the following is a summary of my understanding of that conversation.

 

You recently agreed to an extension of ??? days, this was to allow you to provide information in response to my CPR31.14 and CPR18 requests, which to date has not been forthcoming.

 

I was rather surpised therefore to hear that even with that extension, you are unable to provide the information required in order for me to submit a fully particularised defence. In fact it would appear that you are now saying you are unable to provide the information on which you base your claim until some ??? days/Weeks after the new submission date.

 

If it is your intention to send this information the day before I due to submit, this is unacceptable and I will be advising the court of your obstruction.

 

Yours etc..

 

**************************************

 

I am just going to have a read back over your thread to see what kind of minimal defence you can enter in the event they dont provide something within the next couple of days.

[naomi25]

Will get a letter sent off today regarding the telephone conversation, thankyou citizen B this letter should help me. Will let you no as soon as I hear back from them

[citizenB]

Originally Posted by Always Struggling

Notice of Default for arrears is dated 8th March 2011

Default Notice also dated 8th March for arrears stating to pay arrears by 27th March.

Followed by Notification of Termination on the agreement and full amount now due.

 

Stating in capitals on the N.o.T:

IF THIS IS NOT PAID IMMEDIATELY WE WILL TAKE LEGAL PROCEEDINGS AGAINST YOU. YOU MAY HAVE TO PAY THE COURT COSTS

 

On your point about serving the notice. If I understand you correctly:

Notice of Default & Default Notice (both dated 8th March) should be as follows-

8th March - Tuesday, so count Wednesday as day1 Thursday and Friday (3days?) then the following week another 5 up to and including Friday 18th march making 8days, then the following week another 5 working days making 13days and then Monday 28th (date both defaults have) would be the 14th. Am I right in assuming then they should have in fact dated/sent them the next day (Tueday 29th) to have been 14 'clear days' and therefore valid?

Monday 28th on my reckoning would have been the 14th workday.

 

N.o.D and DN both are for arrears but with the DN mentioning the full amount at bottom of letter if arrears not paid in time.

 

Originally Posted by Always Struggling

Lol.... was just in the process of reading that exact case as you must have been posting.

 

In regards to your previous post here are the general points to date:

 

Pre-DN and termination from Sant (March 2011) Offered £1 token payments with explainations (ignored by Sant)

 

8th March 2011 - DN issued stating to pay before 27th March. (query validity) (arrived Saturday 12th March)

 

28th March 2011 - Termination Notice issued

 

5th April 2011 - Demand for Full Repayment

 

3rd May 2011 - CCA request sent to Sant - signed for on xx/xx/11 and p/o cashed

 

17th May 2011 - Account purchased by CCM - NOA queried by TB as no title NOA nor their credit licence number.

 

26th May 2011 - Letter sent with copy of DN accepting termination on back of faulty DN (as advised by teaboy post #35)

 

6th November 2011 - letter received stating copy of agreement was attached (wasn't one attached) (letter received was also dated 11th July )

They did include a copy of their letter for the NOA which hadn't been asked for

 

6th November 2011 - Subject access request sent to CCM signed for on xx/xx/11 (£10 cashed on xx/xx/11)

 

30th Jan 2011 - CCM issued court proceedings

 

9th Feb 2011 - AOS returned

 

20th Feb 2011 - CPR31.14 sent (asked for agreement and noa)

 

We were about to put together a Part 18 letter.

Was thinking along the lines of bringing certain failures to their attention by way of asking questions.

 

Wasn't sure though and needed some help in deciding what the best course of action would be.

 

Thanks for any input you may have and coming to read CB.

 

P.S.The stupidest part about all this is the fact that all naomi had done initially was give the car back when her finances hit hard times and she realised she was unable to carry on explained her current situation and offered token payments. So much for banks helping those in financial difficulty,..... it appears to be more a case of sell it on and go to court for CCJ asap

 

 

 

]

If your dates are correct for the issuing date of the claim.. your defence does not need to be in until 3rd March

 

Issue date 30 January + 5 for service = 4th Feb + 14 to AoS = 18 Feb + 14 to submit = 3rd March.

 

OK , my opinions.. for what they are worth.

 

Please, forget this rubbish about recission of contract.

 

You have a Default Notice that was dated 8th March 2011 with a remedy date of 27th March 2011.

 

Just because it was dated 8th does not mean it was posted (physically put in the mail on that date) - require proof

A Default Notice MUST give 14 clear days to remedy so they have to ADD sufficient days for postage (for it to be received by you)

2 working days for 1st class post and 4 working days for 2nd class or UK Mail service - do you have the envelope it came in.

 

Lets assume it WAS posted on 8th (which I sincerely doubt) and it was sent 1st class mail then it would have been with you on the 11th that would have been correct.

 

However, if it was sent 2nd class Mail then they have serious problems.

 

Assume posting on the 8th - 4 working days takes you over to 14th March and in theory that would leave just 13 days for you to remedy.. except for another issue .. In order to comply with the remedy you would have had to have made payment by the 25th as 26/27 were weekend days so they robbed you of 2 days at the end of the notice.

 

Assuming it was posted on the 9th then of course it is minus 1 more day

So issue of the Default Notice out of the way.

 

xx

 

An amount due under an agreement entered into by the defendant and Santander Consumer Finance that has been assigned to the claimant.

 

And the claimant claims:

 

1. 4049.81 Account No. XXXXXXXXXXXXX

2. 290.25 interest there on calculated as set out below to section 69a of the county court Act 1984.

3. Further interest at the rate of 0.89 per day (8.00% p.a) from the date here of until judgement or earlier payment

Invoice Invoice Invoice Rate Interest

Number Date Amount (%) ( )

SHORTFALL 07/03/11 4049.81 8.00 290.25

 

x

 

xx

 

 

 

Defence in the event that the written confirmation doesnt appear on time.

 

 

 

1: The Claimants pleaded case is not sufficient for the purposes of CPR 16. The Claimants pleaded case is lacking the most basic facts and detail such as dates of demands made by the Claimant, date of default, date of service of notice of assignment, date of service of default notice and date of agreement, which has alleged to be breached. This information is fundamental to the Claimants case, yet no details are offered or pleaded.

 

2: On receipt of the claim form - the defendant immediately requested information by way of CPR31.14 and CPR 18 both these requests have been received as evidenced by the signed delivery slips obtained from the Royal Mail Website. Yet to date the Claimant has failed to respond.

 

3: Prior to the issuance of the claim by the Claimant and in response to threats of legal action from them, the Defendant had requested information by way of Data Subject access request (DSAR1998) to the Original Creditor, Santander. In this respect Santander has failed to respond and is in breach of its legal obligation to comply within 40 calendar days. Again the defendant can evidence receipt of the request by way of the legal fee of £10.00 being cashed and the signed delivery receipt from the Royal Mail Website. The defendant will be issuing a separate claim against Santander for compliance of her request.

 

4: The Defendant believes there was a valid and unresolved dispute between the original creditor and herself and had advised the Claimant in this claim of that fact. They have however issued their claim and then have failed to provide the very documents they require to support their claim and which at the same time denies the Defendant the opportunity to submit a properly particularised defence.

 

5: On DATE realising that the Claimant was not going to comply with her CPR requests, the Defendant requested an extension of time by way of CPR15.5.

 

 

6: The Claimant finally agreed to an extension of 14 days providing for a new submission date of ???? The court were advised of this on DATE

 

 

7: Having agreed to an extension in order to provide the Claimant with more time to respond to requests made by the Defendant under CPR31.14 and CPR18, the Claimant advised in a telephone conversation on ??? that the information requested would not be available for a further 6 weeks.

 

 

8: The Claimant has issued a claim without being in possession of the information on which they base that claim which in turn is frustrating the attempts of the Defendant to submit a defence.

 

9: Consequently, the Defendant denies all allegations on the Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof

 

10: The Defendant respectfully requests a stay in proceedings until such time as the Claimant complies with the requests outlined in paragraphs 2, 3 and 7 above or until the Court orders its compliance with the same. I will then be in a position to file a fully particularised Defence and Counterclaim and will seek the Court’s permission to amend my statement of case accordingly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, I have updated the original defence I had sorted out for you.. You need to obtain other opinions on this and should amend anything that is inaccurate. If there is anything I have forgotton/missed then you should include it.

 

You can only respond to their claim as it stands and IMHO, it doesnt actually say any thing.

 

 

HTH

[Always Struggling]

Thanks for putting this together CB.

 

Have amended point 3. The Claimant is the one who has failed the SAR request.

Also added 3a :- The OC failed to comply with a CCA s.77 request before selling it.

 

So many failures it's hard to keep track lol

 

Defence in the event that the written confirmation doesnt appear on time.

 

 

 

1: The Claimants pleaded case is not sufficient for the purposes of CPR 16. The Claimants pleaded case is lacking the most basic facts and detail such as dates of demands made by the Claimant, date of default, date of service of notice of assignment, date of service of default notice and date of agreement, which has alleged to be breached. This information is fundamental to the Claimants case, yet no details are offered or pleaded.

 

2: On receipt of the claim form - the defendant immediately requested information by way of CPR31.14 and CPR 18 both these requests have been received as evidenced by the signed delivery slips obtained from the Royal Mail Website. Yet to date the Claimant has failed to respond.

 

3: Prior to the issuance of the claim by the Claimant and in response to threats of legal action from them, the Defendant had requested information by way of Data Subject access request (DSAR1998) to the Claimant, Close Credit Management. In this respect the Claimant has failed to respond and is in breach of its legal obligation to comply within 40 calendar days. Again the defendant can evidence receipt of the request by way of the legal fee of £10.00 being cashed and the signed delivery receipt from the Royal Mail Website. The defendant will be issuing a separate claim against Close Credit Management for compliance of her request.

 

3a: Prior to the claimant purchasing the account from Santander, the defendent had made a request for a copy of the agreement in line with the Consumer Credit Act s.77. The defendent paid the required fee of £1 for this request, the defendent can evidence this by way of signature for receipt on the Royal Mail website. Santander subsequently sold the account to the claimant while it was in breach of this section of the CCA.

 

4: The Defendant believes there was a valid and unresolved dispute between the original creditor and herself and had advised the Claimant in this claim of that fact. They have however issued their claim and then have failed to provide the very documents they require to support their claim and which at the same time denies the Defendant the opportunity to submit a properly particularised defence.

 

5: On DATE realising that the Claimant was not going to comply with her CPR requests, the Defendant requested an extension of time by way of CPR15.5.

 

 

6: The Claimant finally agreed to an extension of 14 days providing for a new submission date of ???? The court were advised of this on DATE

 

 

7: Having agreed to an extension in order to provide the Claimant with more time to respond to requests made by the Defendant under CPR31.14 and CPR18, the Claimant advised in a telephone conversation on ??? that the information requested would not be available for a further 6 weeks.

 

 

8: The Claimant has issued a claim without being in possession of the information on which they base that claim which in turn is frustrating the attempts of the Defendant to submit a defence.

 

9: Consequently, the Defendant denies all allegations on the Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof

 

10: The Defendant respectfully requests a stay in proceedings until such time as the Claimant complies with the requests outlined in paragraphs 2, 3 and 7 above or until the Court orders its compliance with the same. I will then be in a position to file a fully particularised Defence and Counterclaim and will seek the Court’s permission to amend my statement of case accordingly.

[citizenB]

Nice one, the more you can demonstrate that this already had an unresolved dispute and that the new owner was aware of it the better This is so typical of Santander and also HBoS to dump their accounts when the going gets tough and simply hope that the new owner is more aggressive... or that they really dont care if the new owner doesnt get paid.. at least they have and have written the debt off their books.

[naomi25]

I recieved a copy of the signed agreement yesterday (08/03/12), have attached this for you to look at.

 

When do I have to have my defence in by as 17th March is a Saturday. Shall I post it by Thursday 15th March at the latest?

 

What happens if I receive something through the post as late as Wednesday 14th March, will I still be expected to put a full defence in rather than an "embarrassed" defence?

 

If I file my defence and paperwork arrives on Friday 16th March, what would happen on Monday 19th March?

 

Also they sent the signed agreement by recorded delivery.

scan0011.pdf

[naomi25]

Does the agreement comply with the consumer credit act? Can someone please confirm this for me.