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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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What on earth do I do?


WGG
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I'm a grown man and I'm sat here almost in tears. I just got a letter to say I'd failed my ESA medical, with 0 points. I can't understand how they'd seriously say that. It's a bit of a long story (aren't they all?) so I'll start back in October.

 

I got my IB medical with Atos in October. The first medical I'd had for 3 years or so. The one 3 years before that, I'd failed then appealed, and the appeal was successful.

 

I failed the one last October (I got 8 points out of the 10 I needed), and appealed. I didn't hear a thing between then and January.

 

In January I heard back that my appeal had been unsuccessful, and I sent off for my tribunal. It's in ~6 weeks.

 

In the meantime, the JC advised me to claim ESA. I got a medical for that last Monday. Today I got a letter telling me I'd failed it, and I'd gotten 0 points.

 

Now, I've no idea how I managed 0 points. It's clear that they lied this time again. The one I had in October they lied about, and I know because I sneakily recorded it.

 

I TRIED to record the one last week, rather more blatantly, thinking that if they knew I was recording it they wouldn't lie this time, but when the woman who was set to interview me saw my recorder she told me we couldn't continue with the interview. We had an argument and she refused to continue with the interview.

 

I spoke to another person at Atos, and they told me I could arrange for a "professional recording" of the interview, but there were terms and conditions that had to be met, and it'd have been prohibitively expensive. I have no money whatsoever because I've had a grand total of 35 pounds in benefits since October.

 

So, it was clear that waiting and paying for someone to record the interview professionally was out of my budget, because I have no money therefore no budget. It was agreed that I'd go ahead with the interview without recording it. I really had no option, and felt forced into it. I was worried they'd lie again, and misrepresent what I said, and it turns out they did. To be honest, going from 8 points in October to 0 in March, when my mental health has gotten worse, it seems to me like they screwed me over on purpose because I attempted to record the interview and accused them of being liars.

 

So it's now April the 1st. They've given me 35 pounds to live on since October. My credit card is maxed out. I've borrowed hundreds of pounds just for food and necessities. I've had to move in with my girlfriend because my mother, whom I was living with before, cannot afford to keep me. I was planning on moving in with my girlfriend, but not under these circumstances. I wasn't planning on being a burden. She knew I was mentally ill, and she was prepared for that kind of burden, but she's going without to keep me fed and clothed. God bless her she's kept me and looked after me, and not grumbled any more about it than she grumbles about everything else. :lol:

 

So given that I've had two medicals that I failed, I'm waiting on my tribunal for the first one, and the JC have put appeal forms for the most recent ATOS interview in the post to me today, what should I do?

 

Would writing to my MP help? I've seen people mention that they got things sorted by speaking to their MP.

 

What about CAB? Should I head to the CAB on Monday morning?

 

I really feel as if nothing will help this situation.

 

My health problems, just in case it'll help someone advise me:

 

Since my teens I've had mental health problems. It came and went, but since my mid 20s it's been a really serious problem. A lot of the time I can't leave the house. I can't answer the phone, if the door gets knocked and I'm not expecting someone I just ignore it and hope they go away. I have trouble dealing with people. On the days I can go out to the shops, I'll use the automated checkouts to avoid having to talk to a checkout assistant.

 

I have depression, stress and anxiety problems, connected to what seems to be IBS. When I'm particularly nervous about going out my bowels will just give out. I've lost count of the number of times I've been on the way out the door but I've had to dash to the loo, and cancel going out.

 

I don't even feel comfortable about people coming to see me, most of the time. I try not to arrange to see people, and if my girlfriend has friends round it really stresses me out, even though I've known them for years and consider them to be friends too.

 

My physical health is suffering because I don't get any exercise. I used to walk a lot, or cycle. I've put on 4 stone in the last 5 years. Walking to the shops round the corner tires me out. Taking the bins out exhausts me. I seem to have no energy at all.

 

I haven't had particularly dark thoughts for a long time, but right now I'm wondering what the point is. It seems like they're going to screw me no matter what. I don't have any hope for this appeal, or the upcoming tribunal. I've got no money whatsoever. I owe so much money, I've been counting on getting this sorted and getting my money backdated so I can pay off the debts that receiving no benefits has saddled me with.

 

I don't understand how they can do this to people. Their lies and messing me around are affecting my health directly. They just don't seem to care.

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Hi WGG

I really feel for you, ATOS are liars and I had to go through this charade and won on appeal though it took 9 months for tribunal. I would suggest that you go and see CAB or welfare rights asap and put in an appeal. They can help take the pressure off you in dealing with it and make sure that you get some sort of payment in the meantime and help obtain your medical evidence.

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Guest jsa12

you really need to stop using that credit card,your more then likely to be making minimum payments and there is a possibility of landing deeper and deeper in debt if they continually raise the limit irresponsibly.

 

mental health problems are very serious and can lead vulnerable people who risk exploitation,there are people who can help a debt adviser at my local authority sent me paperwork she wrote to my gp and the gp replied saying because of my illness i was spending out of control,i don't know if the debts will be written off but it exposes the risks to people with illnesses reckless lending and the results.the dwp should not use a credit card as a means of support if there is no other income too.mental health problems can and do mean extreme difficulty in finding and maintaining employment as often there are large gaps in any employment,i was told when i raised questions regarding mental health the reply was less then helpful.you are entitled to jobseekers allowance hardship provision which is for people who cannot work and you are in a vulnerable group,it could be that thy are seeing your girlfriend is supporting you and this is having an effect on your own benefits also.

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Jobseeking hardship is only for jobseekers who have received a sanction on the jsa claim. You cannot get it for ESA.

Why were you not receiving the initial rate of ESA, (sorry I am not ESA trained) have you appealed against the decision to disallow your claim for ESA.

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Guest jsa12

well there doesnt look to be anything else he can claim he can apply for jobseekers and be disadvantaged in the extent of his illness,you are ignoring atos and the "criteria" when everyone is stating the same then it can be only obviously something is badly wrong. the main aim is to place people on jobsekers allowance for various reasons'.he can appeal but it would be wise to obtain medical evidence from health professionals' to back this up,people with mental heath problems are the highest group likely of all disabilities to be be out of work at best 80% are unemployed its more likely 90% + there is no disguising these appalling figures that exclude people for for a multitude of reasons'.

 

this is an horrendous story but sadly typical.

Edited by jsa12
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Thanks folks, it's good to know I'm not alone in this.

 

I'll go to CAB on Monday morning, and I'll put together an email to my MP over the weekend I think. I've stopped using the credit card (small limit, was meant to be for emergencies, so it's done its job).

 

I'm not officially staying with my girlfriend, as far as the JC know I'm still at my mum's, who's also on benefits, and couldn't afford to buy my food etc.

 

I've no idea why I'm not receiving the initial rate of ESA, should I be? I got one ESA payment of 37.40 on January the 11th, but that's all I've had since the 14th of October. I submitted the doctor's lines as soon as they were requested.The forms to appeal against the ESA decision are in the post to me right now.

 

I haven't worked in a few years now. The last place I worked I had to leave due to illness. I was in a pretty bad way at that time, and although I liked my job and tried to keep it, I was just having too much time off ill, and they let me go. I know that if they tried to force me to get a job I'd just make a mess of it again. I'm not stable enough to be a reliable employee. Most days I can't leave the house, never mind put in an 8 hour shift.

 

Is there someone around who knows a lot about ESA? Should I have been receiving the basic rate of ESA? They told me I couldn't get anything until I had the medical I just got last week. The JC don't seem to know what they're talking about, ATOS lie, and I don't know what to do next.

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Hi WGG, you've got me stumped! The system is quite straightforward. You apply for ESA and receive £65(ish) each week for the 12 week assessment period. During which time you have a 'medical' (ha! ha!) with ATOSH. Most will fail to get 15 points. You then appeal. During this time - between 6 and 10 months or so of waiting - you continue at the assessment rate of £65 per week. You then have your tribunal and, quite possibly, fail that. You then start all over again by applying for ESA ... etc. No idea why you only receive £35 or so. Doesn't sound like the ESA I've grown to love and cherish ...

Rae

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Hi there,

 

Take no notice of the points received by Atos, you will find they score the majority of people 0 points. I got 0 points, I am still waiting for my day at the tribunal when I know I will get what I deserve, I am also looking forward to the money which they will be backdating - I have not bought a new handbag in ages, looking forward to this day.

 

When you start claiming ESA you are paid at the assessment phase rate of £65.45 (if over 25) for the first 13 weeks of your claim while a decision is made on your capability for work through the Work Capability Assessment. You will eventually be sent for your ATOS medical after 13 weeks, if ATOS award you the necessary points then your rate should go up to £91.40 if in the work related group or £96.85 if in the support group. In your case you was awarded 0 points which means you then have to appeal against the decision, once the ESA office is in receipt of your appeal you should continue to receive £65.45 up until your tribunal. The tribunal will then decide whether or not you should be in receipt of ESA, the tribunal rule in favour of the claimants more times than not. If the tribunal rule in your favour the rate you should have got after 13 weeks will be backdated (the extra £25 +).

 

You may not be up to speaking with anyone from the ESA section but I would advise you to keep in contact with them, you should at this stage be in receipt of something. Once your money is reinstated be sure to send in your doctor sicknotes as ESA will not be paid without them. Do what needs to be done, you will feel better for it, don't be discouraged, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

L x

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If you aren't comfortable speaking to someone on the phone about your claim then I would suggest calling the contact centre number to request an AJCS appointment with a customer service person at your local jobcentre to discuss your case. Please be aware that the person in the JCP office that you will see is highly unlikely to know much about ESA (put my hands as you can see from my earlier post I know very little about it but learning bits from this forum) but they can lase by telephone with the ESA processing team to establish exactly what is going on with your claim. Have you got anyone that can go to the appointment with you for support?

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Hi Flumps1976, the above way is quite long and drawn out, all WGG needs to do is speak to the first person that will pick the phone up when calling dwp, he will need to give them his NI number and pass his security check (WGG will pass this because he has the information that they will be needing). WGG if you find it difficult speaking to them pass the phone to someone who will speak on your behalf but explain to DWP that you will be doing this. Kelcou is correct when she says that the system is quite straightforward, it is they do mess you about a lot but you have to hold your head up and go for what you know you deserve.

 

I worked for my last company for 16 years and was dismissed due to ill health, I have not enjoyed dealing with the likes of DWP, ATOS or ESA but I have paid my dues into the system and will get what I know I deserve, it is not alright for them to treat me like I am some kind of scrounger, I know who I am and I could never be that, I like myself too much. WGG believe me when I say this, DWP, ATOS and ESA do not care about people so you have to do all the caring for yourselve and go for what you know you deserve.

 

I kept in constant contact with them, they were the ones who told me that I had failed the medical but received the actual letter from them advising me of this 2 months later, I had sent my appeal letter in long before that, they sent it back to me so I could put another date on it, so much nonsense was going on with them but there is always that driving force behind me to dig my heels in when I feel as though I am being treatly unfairly. I, like yourself cried at times but crying seems to give me that added strength to go on, strange I know.

 

You are not well and they are adding stress and bad feelings to your condition, don't give them the satisfaction, they love it when people do not bother, be bothered WGG and find strength to go on, we are all behind you.

 

As soon as they receive your appeal they will backdate your money but you will need to provide a doctor sicknote to cover you from last year October to date if they do not have one at present.

 

L x

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Hi folks, thanks a million for taking the time to reply and give me advice, I really appreciate it.

 

So basically I should definitely have been receiving reduced rate ESA so far? Because I've received one payment of £37-ish, and nothing since. They've got my medical lines. I'm all medical-lined-up until, iirc, roughly a month from now. I know the JC have made a total mess of my claim, because I received a letter in January asking me to send medical certificates, with a deadline of the end of October for getting them in. That was the first contact they made since I made my claim in October. My time machine's broken, so I'm not sure exactly what they expected me to do.

 

I've just done a quick calculation, and if I should've been getting £65.45 a week, that's £1586 I should have been paid so far, minus the £37 they paid me in January.

 

I'll be phoning them on Monday I guess. I'm not looking forward to phoning, but my girlfriend isn't very good at using phones either, so she'd be as much use as me! :)

 

It's disgusting that they'd treat people like this. I'm lucky enough to live in a country with these safety nets for when things go wrong in your life, but the system has to change, it's making people worse. There was a time when this kind of stress would have made me seriously consider ending it all, and I'm sure there are plenty of people in that position right now. To think that the way ATOS etc treat people could potentially push them over the edge... Soulless bastards.

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I know that the AJCS is a drawn out process I was only trying to suggest it as an option. In my personal experience of speaking to some staff based in the BDC whilst I am sat in a JCP office is that they have no choice but explain the reasoning for things when sat ibn the office talking to a customer support officer who in turn is attempting to explain to the custoomer, it is far harder to fob a colleague off than a customer who some think tey can just say "ok we'll look into it and give you a call back within 3 hours" but if you can get an AJCS appointment it should be sorted during the course of the appointment.

Like I said just a suggestion.

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I'll give them a ring tomorrow, getting myself into the office will be problematic. If I don't get any joy on the phone I guess I'll go and entrench myself in the JC until they sort it out. :)

 

Fingers crossed! I'll let you guys know how I get on.

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Well I've been on the phone to them now. The reason I've not been receiving any money is because I claimed within 6 months of my IB claim being disallowed because I failed that medical.

 

I had a little hope that I'd get some money soon, but now I'm going to have to wait for the tribunal next month, which I'll probably fail. I'm sick of the waiting and not knowing. :(

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Anyone got advice? The only thing the JC told me I could do to get money is to claim JSA in the meantime, but iirc on the claim form you have to certify that you're fit, able and actively looking for work. I'm none of the above. I'd be lying if I said I was able to work, and surely it'd jeopardize my tribunal etc?

 

If so, then what's a person meant to do? Since October I've had 37 pounds in benefit, with no other income. That's ~20p a day from then until now I'm expected to be able to live on. I'm living off the debt I'm creating, and I'm counting on getting this money backdated eventually to get my head back above water.

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Well I've been on the phone to them now. The reason I've not been receiving any money is because I claimed within 6 months of my IB claim being disallowed because I failed that medical.

 

I had a little hope that I'd get some money soon, but now I'm going to have to wait for the tribunal next month, which I'll probably fail. I'm sick of the waiting and not knowing. :(

 

Ok, WGG, now I'm really confused. You failed an ESA medical but can't get the assessment rate because you claimed ESA within 6 months of failing IB. Silly me, I thought they were two different benefits. Hopefully someone with a decent knowledge of all this will be able to go through this thread and give you some decent advice. In the meantime can you claim for hardship?

Good luck

Rae

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Anyone got advice? The only thing the JC told me I could do to get money is to claim JSA in the meantime, but iirc on the claim form you have to certify that you're fit, able and actively looking for work. I'm none of the above. I'd be lying if I said I was able to work, and surely it'd jeopardize my tribunal etc?

 

I've never gone through this; but have been told it makes no difference.

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Ok, WGG, now I'm really confused. You failed an ESA medical but can't get the assessment rate because you claimed ESA within 6 months of failing IB. Silly me, I thought they were two different benefits. Hopefully someone with a decent knowledge of all this will be able to go through this thread and give you some decent advice. In the meantime can you claim for hardship?

Good luck

Rae

 

When I asked what else I could claim, they told me the only thing was JSA, which obviously wouldn't work. :/

 

Glad I'm not the only one confused about this. :) It makes no sense whatsoever. It's clearly just a way of forcing people off IB/ESA, and off benefits completely if possible.

 

 

have you appealed the ESA refusal?

 

I phoned up the day I found out I failed the medical, the forms are in the post to me.

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When my IB stopped in July last year, i contacted Dawn Advice and they told i should request an income support form to claim at a reduced rate.

 

Which i did, however the job center sent me out an ESA form... so i had to call back and they did the same again. Eventually after 6 weeks with no money they sent me the correct form and i have since September been in receipt of a reduced rate of income support. They refused to backdate the claim saying it was not a valid point that the job centre was in error :|

 

I didnt have to do any medicals for this since i sent in a doctors letter plus information regarding the appeal, they did however require me to attend 5 or 6 "pathways to work" interviews at the local job center. The advisor there said that its clear im not able to be in a position to work however they have to do the interviews as they have to follow the rules....

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It looks like I really need to find out from an independent source if i'm able to claim anything, because the JC are either lying to me or are misinformed. They told me the only thing I could do was to claim JSA.

 

I'd intended to go to the CAB on Monday, but my girlfriend was busy, and I couldn't go by myself. I had a few phone calls to make too, and it takes me half the day to work up to picking up the phone. I'll try and get there next Monday.

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You used to be able to claim Income Support when it was Incapacity Benefit and appealing against failing that medical but that is not the case with ESA claims due to the fact that it is a benefit based on Contribution and Income Based claims.

You can make a claim for JSA you just make sure you speaqk to your adviser and advise them of what you believe you are capable of doing not focus pnm what you can't, a restricted Job Seekers Agreement will be drawn up (as long as you able to actively seek some type of employment and the restrictions are reasonable e.g I can look for x type of work but have to restrict my hours to no more than x per week due to my incapacity).

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