Esa Appeal turned down, can't claim Jobseekers allowence help me!!!

[mandyjay]

Hello my name is Mandy Im new to this site I joined today in the hope someone can help me.

I have been claiming ESA for a year while i went for my medical which they said I was fit for work so I appealed but Iv just been turned down for that aswell. So I rang up to get Jobseekers Allowence to be told I can't claim it due to the fact I wont be activly looking for work because there's no job I can do with my health so now I have to re claim ESA..

The lady on the phone said I will be turned down again because Its the same illness as before but as I tried to tell her my illness is an ongoing problem that will not get better.

Please someone help me im so worried and confused i don't know what to do next...

Mandy

[vicky2011]

I had exactly the same problem a few years back. Not ill enough to claim esa, not healthy enough to claim jobseekers.

 

Eventually I just lied and said my health had got much better and claimed jobseekers for 6 months and then went back on ESA. Not the right thing to do I know, but nothing was getting sorted any other way :/ And noone at the jobcentre could help me, none of them knew what on earth they were tlaking about and just kept passing me round to other people. I spent about 2 weeks getting 'callbacks' from people who didnt know what to do.

 

Hopefully someone can tell you the correct way to go about this, as I know what I did was wrong, but there was no other option at the time

[leemack]

When you say you appealed - do you mean you went to a tribunal, if so when?

[mandyjay]

I went to a tribunal appeal on 04/03/2011 i got the letter 4 days later turning me down saying im fit for work. I suffer from Fibromyalgia, slipped disc of the lower back which has got osteoarthritus in it, asthma, thyroid problems, palpertations, depression and anxiety. Im on morphine everyday aswell as loads of other stuff I can't bend down , kneel, down , carry anything, lift anything I also can't sit or stand for longer than half an hour at a time..

 

I find it completely puzzeling as to why I wasn't awarded it at the Tribunal I even had a letter from my G.P who has known me for more than 10yrs saying I was not fit for work but they still ignored it and every bit of evidence i took with me.

Thankyou for your help..

 

Mandy

[leemack]

To find out why they didn't award you enough points, write to the tribunal service and ask for a statement of reasons, this should explain their decision. Very occasionally you can find an error of law in the statement of reasons which can allow you to appeal further - but this is quite rare. Did you have any help with the tribunal?

 

If your original esa decision (the one following your medical) was more than 6 months ago, then you can reapply for esa, even for the same condition - you were told the wrong information. Also before the next medical do some research on the net about medicals, there is also a sticky on this board about how to approach them to give the best chance of success. Also to cover yourself in case of a bad interviewer (which most are), by having the interview taped.

[RaeUK]

Generally speaking, as leemack said, your wait for a tribunal will be longer than the six months before reclaiming esa rule. Reclaim esa whilst waiting for your statement of reasons. This is, essentially, the boat I'm in. I'm waiting for my second tribunal to come up. I failed my first and doubt my second will be much better. So I could end up with a third consecutive claim. The down side is that you will be on the assessment rate for a blinking long time!

Rae.

[sj01]

hi, I dont understand this, have you got all your medical letters and consultants letters?

I would have thought that if you are on morphine every day then you should definitely qualify.

Do you go to a pain clinic.

I won my tribunal because I was due surgery and had proof of prior surgery and I was on strong pain meds.

[leemack]

Unfortunately if the evidence doesn't relate directly to the descriptors then appeals can be easily lost. Some tribunals will go out of their way to find points they can award you, others expect it spelled out to them. Its down to the prep work before the tribunal, strong submission, pulling apart the atos medical report, providing good written evidence from medical professionals, and giving strong oral evidence.

[RaeUK]

It can depend on who you get. At my last tribunal they went through the ATOS report with a fine tooth comb and thought it was gospel. At the time my lung efficiency was down to 50% [i have severe COPD] and the Doctor on the panel simply said "well, people get by quite happily with one lung". That comment cost me a lot and, at the time, I didn't have the wit to point out I had two knackered lungs not one good one. Doh! Still, lung efficiency is now down to 40% so that messes up their argument. Ha! I may be losing the war but I'm going to win the battle...

Rae

Edited March 22, 2011 by RaeUK
You can't beat a good pyrrhic victory ... ;)

[stalin's dead]

Can someone please clarify beyond doubt the question about when you can reapply for ESA following a failed appeal? It is 6 months after the appeal date itself or 6 months after a failed ATOS medical confirmation letter from the DWP stating fitness for work?

 

I have my appeal in 5 weeks and if I fail the last thing I want to do is apply for JSA!

 

The date of my failed ATOS medical was in Aug 2010 which is obviously over 7 months ago now so if i fail my ESA appeal can I immediately reapply for ESA?

 

Many thanks

[mandyjay]

Hi thankyou to everyone who has replyed to my post. When i went to my Tribunal appeal i took letters from my g.p they also had notes from all my specialists they had details of my operations and the treatment i was having from the pain clinic. I have wrote to the Tribunal asking for the reasons why i failed iv got the help of the CAB now and there going to help as much as they can. The Employment and support allowence office said they will send me the new forms out i just need to get a sick note from my g.p, the problem is my g.p doesn't feel she can give me anymore sick notes due to the fact she has supplyed me with them every month for the last year and no one beleived what she was saying that i was unfit for work she thinks the best thing to do is go onto jobseekers allowence to prove to the benifits people they can't find a job for me to do because of my health but the jobseekers department wont let me claim it because im not activly looking for a job ..

I feel like im going round in circles and this is making feel so ill Iv not had any money since last week so not eaten much for days Im happier to know my kids are eating and are ok. Im really worried about what will happen and what to do next .

Im going to see the CAB tomorrow again to ask what i can do next. Also i need to talk to my g.p to ask her what she can do. Its a real mess and its making me feel worse and in more pain than i usally do.. Is there a way i can claim ESA without getting a sick note?

 

Thanks again

Mandy

[Nystagmite]

You can only claim ESA without a sicknote once you've passed the assessment (or is that failed and are ill enough?) and been put into one of the groups.

[leemack]

Your doctor's logic is flawed. If he feels that you're unfit for work, he needs to provide you with the sick note.

[stalin's dead]

I was told by my doctor following my failed ESA medical that he'd been informed by the DWP that he shouldn't issue any more sick-notes to me. I thought that was a disgrace. It was a blatant attempt to force me onto JSA and prevent me from appealing the decision. Without sicknotes I couldn't have appealed.

 

MY GP continued to issue sicknotes to me because he knew that my condition is serious.

[RaeUK]

Mandy, as already stated, your GP needs to rethink his / her advice. My GP has patiently written medical certificates for me since November 2009, usually three monthly ones. Her attitude is that the DWP are a little backward ...

Rae

 

Stalins dead - 99% certain it is 6 months from the date of the [failed] medical. Hopefully someone more clued up than I can make that 100%. As soon as I failed my last tribunal I reapplied for ESA without problem and, if history repeats itself, will do so again ...

Rae

[stalin's dead]

Mandy, as already stated, your GP needs to rethink his / her advice. My GP has patiently written medical certificates for me since November 2009, usually three monthly ones. Her attitude is that the DWP are a little backward ...

Rae

 

Stalins dead - 99% certain it is 6 months from the date of the [failed] medical. Hopefully someone more clued up than I can make that 100%. As soon as I failed my last tribunal I reapplied for ESA without problem and, if history repeats itself, will do so again ...

Rae

 

kelcou

 

thanks for that mate

 

cheers

 

sd

[lilly of the valley]

Hi Mandy,

 

Hi Mandy,

 

My name is Lolitta, I too am new to this and had to join today when I read your email. I have been in your position not so long ago, I have been on the assessmet phase for the last year, I went for my ATOS medical last year August 2010, received O points, I then appealed against that decision to ESA decision makers who upheld ATOS report. My appeal made to ESA was then forwarded to the tribunal and I am now waiting on a tribunal date which they said would not come through before June, in the meantime I am receiving ESA at the 13 week assessment phase, you should be in receipt of some form of benefit, I cannot bear the behaviour of these people it is outrageous.

 

I know it is hard but do not be weary in well doing, be positive and know that if you had a choice you would not be claiming any benefit whatsoever, do not allow these people to make you think you are asking for something that does not belong to you, I am sure you have paid into the system just like I have, be bold and strong, don't allow them to intimidate you, believe me they are no way better than you.

 

All the best.

L x

[mandyjay]

Thankyou to everyone was has took the time to reply to my messages. Today i wrote a letter to my G.P letting her know of whats happening and how without any sick notes im without money because they wont let me claim job seekers allowence and its making me more ill and stressed out and depressed being treated like this.. Its up to her now , what she will do im unsure but she is a great doctor and has helped alot so im keeping my fingers crossed.. Im still waiting my tribunal appeal letters letting me know why i failed in the first place and im also waiting for my new ESA forms. As soon as i get them all im off to the CAB there going to help me as much as they can.

I think its terrible that people who are suffering and can't work but would love to are treated like criminals Iv worked since i was 14 yrs old and its only since iv been ill iv not been able to and i hate it but Im unable to work or find anyone who would employee me with all my medical problems.

Im worried for my children and paying bills with no money. my family are brilliant and help when they can but my mum and dad are retired so don't have alot themselves..

Anyway thanks again

Mandy ...

[21muk]

tell them your healthy enough, and you would be able to look for work..sign on..get jobseekers allowence..clearly you wont actually be out there looking for work, but you just tell them you have been..the majority of people lie when they go sign on..not many people actually contact 6 employers every fortnight

[Nystagmite]

tell them your healthy enough, and you would be able to look for work..sign on..get jobseekers allowence..clearly you wont actually be out there looking for work, but you just tell them you have been..the majority of people lie when they go sign on..not many people actually contact 6 employers every fortnight

 

Surely this is fraud? And it would become obvious if the OP kept writing "found nothing", etc.

[Nystagmite]

tell them your healthy enough, and you would be able to look for work..sign on..get jobseekers allowence..clearly you wont actually be out there looking for work, but you just tell them you have been..the majority of people lie when they go sign on..not many people actually contact 6 employers every fortnight

 

Surely this is fraud? And it would become obvious if the OP kept writing "found nothing", etc. How would the OP constantly explain that they found nothing?

[flumps1976]

You can place some restrictions on your Job Seeking Agreement (JSAg), especially if it is a claim made following a recent claim for Incapacity or ESA. If you can explain to yor adviser what you are capable of looking and applying for they can usually work around it even if it is for a short interim period. Some JSAgs w can show that you are looking for 1 to 3 types of employment and you will contact the JCP organisation 3 times a week (either visiting a JCP office to use a jobpoint, searching the direct gov website or callingt Job Seekers Direct), use local papers and ask friends or family members.

These JSAGs can be that flexible especially if you believe that you could be reclaiming ESA in the not to distant future, you just need to ensure that you are booked to an adviser who deals with both ESA customers and new claims to JSA ideally the DEA (disability employment adviser) but you may have to request an appointment with them after making your new claim.

[ptol]

what flumps is hinting at, is the agreement part of job seeker agreement. The agreement needs to be appropriate to YOUR personal circumstances, and need to agree several actions that you will perform, and that you will do a minimum of 3 from that list each week.

 

Actions can be quite simple things, such as contact a job agency for their current suitable vacancies would be an action. Applying for one of the vacancies would be a second action, chasing up the agency for feedback on your application, looking through the local newspaper for vacancies and so on...

 

As a last defence, If you feel that you are being placed under pressure to accept more than you can do, then it is not an agreement, and you can ask for the agreement to be referred to a decision maker.

[mandyjay]

The trouble is Iv been told by not only my G.P and my back and other specialists that im unfit for work I was also told by someone who worked for the Jobcentre that there's no job I could do without putting me in hospital by the end of the day ... So Im stuck waiting to hear from my G.P to find out what I can do next but while I wait I have no money and no food and can't pay bills so phone been cut off now.

[rdm2006]

I was told by my advisor in the jobcentre (the ones you have to see every so often) that even if you are turned down at tribunal you can still appeal that and keep on appealing each time you are turned down- OK so you wont get the extra £25.00 per week but at least you will get something