Only a few days to get my complex defence in- Cabot

[Jasper1965]

A few thoughts:

 

They seem to be implying that the account was terminated in non default circumstances, is this correct? I'm puzzled here, if more than two months were owing then the requirements of sec 87 kick in before termination may be effected. They claim that there were no arrears at the time of termination hence the sec 98 termination yet have the audacity to claim the entire outstanding amount as arrears!!

 

Either you were in arrears and a dn etc was therefore required (sec 87) or you were not in arrears which would fall under sec 98. They can't have it both ways and in either instance written notice of the relevant type is required.

 

The claim is a mess and I'm getting the impression that the claimant doesn't have a clue what the facts are.

If I were the person reviewing this latest application I would wonder how they could claim that there were no arrears at the time of termination and yet can still claim the whole amount outstanding to be arrears, just hope whoever deals with it picks up on this.

 

Ref the t&c's what's the termination clause?

Any mention of post judgment interest etc?

[maddiemay]

Thanks Jasper, the terms and conditions are so small, it'll be a task to find the bit you refer too, but I will try,it will have to be in daylight though, I'll get back to you asap on that.

The account would have been in default, I stopped paying them when the account went into dispute due to Vanquis wanting to charge me £5 per statement and not complying with a cca request (I think) Hope that helps

[pt2537]

Harrison vs Link Financial Limited

 

They do need to serve a default notice if they are claiming the full balance

[maddiemay]

But they're saying the're not claiming the whole balance, the very last page in the rubbish they have sent me, says there is a total amount of arrears of over £4,000, against an original total debt of around £1500!! If the OC had just complied with the rules in the first place and provided me with a valid CCA, I wouldn't be in the mess now. I will never pay them a single penny, they can bankrupt me for all I care, I will not be conned because they can afford solicitors and I cant!

Does anyone know if I can make a complaint now to the OFT, or am I prevented from doing so because of the legal action, the reason I ask is that they know more about these acts Cabot are trying to confuse me with, than the courts seem to.

[maddiemay]

There are 2 sets of T& C (Schedule 2 part 2) slightly different in places:

One says there is no annual fee, the other says the annual fee is £19

One says we can close you account for any reason if we give you 30 days notice and if you are in breech of the agreement, the other says

we may close your account for any reason giving you 30 days notice.

 

In the next clause it says, where we have given you notice and you have given us notice this agreemnt will only formally end when you have paid the amount owed under this agreement.

Both say we can ask a debt collection agency to assist in collecting a debt, no mention of selling it and no mention of post judgement interest either.

 

 

Thoughts anyone ?

[maddiemay]

I have been trying to find the answers without the need to bother anyone, but I'm worried as time is running out, if anyone is available to help me with a couple of questions, I'd be really grateful

 

The claimant was ordered by the court to provide me with the usual documents, and an explaination as to why there is a strange entry on one of the monthly statements, they have provided what they consider to be a CCA and a bunch of other stuff but not the explaination, they have applied to the court for more time to provide this information. My question regarding this is, does my amended defence have to be filed 14 days (as per court order) from receipt of ordered documents or do I wait until after the hearing? I'm so confussed!

 

In the T&C I have received it says the O/C can ask for assistance from a debt collector, but it doesnt say they can sell any debt, does this usually have any real bearing or not worth bringing up.

[sillygirl1]

The debt collector bit is a red herring, I wouldn't bother bringing it up, most OCs use a third party at some point to do their dirty work - if they had applied a charge on the account for this then it is worth bringing up as that is against the OFT guidelines on debt collection.

[maddiemay]

Ok thanks for that sillygirl, any thoughts/opinions on when the defence should go in anyone?

[sillygirl1]

Get the defence in asap, I am around on and off at the moment so might be able to help.

[maddiemay]

Thank you for your offer of help,

I sent the defence as in post 25, changing in slightly in places, since then I have received pretty much the same stuff I have always been sent from the very start of this dispute with the OC and since 2008, Cabot, with the additon now of witness statements from someone at Morgans solicitors, Change of name from Kingshill to Cabot (I read somewhere about why they include this) although the name change was way before assignment.

Acceptance reply card signed by me, confirming I am applying for a Vanquis credit card (thats what it says on the reply card) A letter addressed to Dear Sample, and some very small terms and conditions, a whole bunch of blacked out paperwork and another set of Terms, marked schedule 2 Part 2, they are almost exactly the same as the first with the exception of a couple of things. i.e. as in above post, one set say they charge an anual fee of £19 the other says they dont charge an anual fee. The final document is what I assume is a statement of account as follows: (I have changed the dates, but pretty close)

Case Name Cabot Financial

Arrears notice 18/08/07 arrears as shown on that notice.... 1,***.**

Subsequent arrears

18/08/07 to 29/11/10 Minimum payments as percentage of balance per month.... 5% Well they can forget that for starters as the account had been in dispute since before the alledged arrears notice was sent

Assigned balance.... £2,***.**

Minimum therefore.... £1**.**

Daily rate.... £*.**

No of days between last arrears notice and issue date... 8**

Subsequent arrears therefore.... £2,***.**

Total arrears balance..... £4.***.**

Cabot have applied to the court for more time to supply a statement explaining the strange statement entry, they have asked for paragraph 4 and 6 of the order(posted above) to be removed as they are not required in this case under section 87 (1) and section 98 of the consumer credit act

So the long and the short of it is, I owed a total amount of £1,3**.**, had the cheek to ask for a copy of the CCA (many many times) and statements to see if I had any PPI cover I could claim on, Vanquis wanted to charge me £5 per statement which I couldnt afford, the account went into dispute and now I'm suposed to pay Cabot over £4,000 and thats before I get to the bottom of the £1,5**.** transfer entry on one of the statements, and why the account number changed. The Cabot witness statement implies I had made the balance transfer to another account, I say absolutely NOT!

The only thing relating to me is the reply card and the statements, although I believe the statements may have been tampered with. i.e. removing the ppi as that would put the OC at fault for trying to charge me £5 per statement as oposed to £10 SAR for everything (Correct I hope)

Thought/opinions will be gratefully received

Thanks again

[maddiemay]

I'm not sure what to put in the amended defence as the paperwork sent doesn't really help me in any more detail and I only have 7 days left to file it.

Still dont know if I actually ticked the ppi box, still dont know why and to who this alledged £1500+ was transfered to and still dont believe that I had an account for 4 years and never incurred a fee of any kind,

 

How on earth do you write in simple, but legal terms...Mr Judge, A) OC had no right to pass this on as it was in dispute. B) The most I owe is £1,3**.** not £4,***.** or not depending on ppi C) No agreement, signed or otherwise D) I think the statements have been messed with ????????????????????????? Anyone

[maddiemay]

I'm really sorry to start yet another thread for the same problem, but time is running out for me (5 days to file amended defence)

I have been doing some homework on CAG and think I will be able to put together an amended defence, the only thing that worries me is that it will be in my own words which is not quite the same language as solicitors and judges! Having read various times on here that it is best to understand fully your own case, so when you do end up in court, you do at least know what you are talking about.

I would just like to check a couple of things before with you guys.

 

Suggestions of how to word the following with the relevant acts/laws if possible, please!!!

 

The claimant is pretending to be claiming arrears only, therefore their witness statement says they dont have to comply with section 87 of the CCA, Quote...neither the claimant nor the assignor was required to send a default notice under that section or at all, the sums claimed by the claimant as the assignee relate to arrears only..Unquote. Not sure how to word, they are fibbing, its for the total balance but they've added on interest making it look like its just arrears

 

Notice of assignment, am I right in thinking that if they bought the debt, they only have to have themselves listed as the claimant, if not the original creditor, has to be named on the claim too?

 

Notice of assignment, should the original creditor have sent one by registered post? not have been contained within the same envelope as the 'Welcome to Cabot' letter.

 

Terms and conditions, should these be the ones relevant to the debtor at the time of the account being opened (as requested)

 

T&C within the four corners of the signiture document, does this only relate to the post 2007 agreements.

 

Interest When an account goes into dispute, should no more interest be added until that dispute has been resolved

 

Sorry for all the questions, I do try not to bother anyone, but dont have the confidence to go it alone

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?290922-The-Recent-CCA-change-in-law...Clarification-Please

 

A bit of guidance would be really appreciated

[cymruambyth]

I'm really sorry to start yet another thread for the same problem, but time is running out for me (5 days to file amended defence)

I have been doing some homework on CAG and think I will be able to put together an amended defence, the only thing that worries me is that it will be in my own words which is not quite the same language as solicitors and judges! Having read various times on here that it is best to understand fully your own case, so when you do end up in court, you do at least know what you are talking about.

I would just like to check a couple of things before with you guys.

 

Suggestions of how to word the following with the relevant acts/laws if possible, please!!!

 

The claimant is pretending to be claiming arrears only, therefore their witness statement says they dont have to comply with section 87 of the CCA, Quote...neither the claimant nor the assignor was required to send a default notice under that section or at all, the sums claimed by the claimant as the assignee relate to arrears only..Unquote. Not sure how to word, they are fibbing, its for the total balance but they've added on interest making it look like its just arrears This si wrong.

 

Notice of assignment, am I right in thinking that if they bought the debt, they only have to have themselves listed as the claimant, if not the original creditor, has to be named on the claim too? Yes

 

Notice of assignment, should the original creditor have sent one by registered post? not have been contained within the same envelope as the 'Welcome to Cabot' letter.

Should be sent by registered post according to Law of Property Act 1925 (you will need to quote the section) but this is often overlooked by DJs

 

Terms and conditions, should these be the ones relevant to the debtor at the time of the account being opened (as requested)

It depends on what request you made to them. If it goes to court Carey is argued, you need to know about this case as for enforcement they need the original t&cs.

 

T&C within the four corners of the signiture document, does this only relate to the post 2007 agreements. NO

 

Interest When an account goes into dispute, should no more interest be added until that dispute has been resolved I think they can still add interest

 

Sorry for all the questions, I do try not to bother anyone, but dont have the confidence to go it alone

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?290922-The-Recent-CCA-change-in-law...Clarification-Please

 

A bit of guidance would be really appreciated

 

I have answered as best I can

[Docman]

maddie

 

You have to answer all the points raised in the Amended Particulars of Claim, if one has been filed. Can you post up a copy of the APOCs after taking out your personal details? Or alternativley link through to your othr threads which contain the details.

[maddiemay]

Thanks for the answers, I can get started on it now, but will not take it to the court until the very last day for filing.

Thanks again everyone, so glad to have a bit of support.

[maddiemay]

Docman, I didn't ask for them to amend the particulars of claim, having read a lot on here lately it seems as if I should have, Cabot have absolutely nothing on me except for a bunch of statements with my name on them. I am more than happy to pay the balance as of the date, the OC defaulted on the section 78, but I'm not going to pay the £2,500 Cabot have added on top, which is almost double the original balance, surley any judge can see that is unfair!

Another quick question, this £5 per statement which is bugging me, when did the maximum statutory charge of £10 for a SAR come into force?

Thanks guys

[Guest]

.........Another quick question, this £5 per statement which is bugging me, when did the maximum statutory charge of £10 for a SAR come into force?

Thanks guys

 

do you mean that they want to charge you for copy statements under a sar? unfortunately, i think that they may actually be allowed to charge for copy statements if specifically requested, despite it being a sar! most seem to not, and just send the copy statements. but, they should advise beforehand if they are going to charge for any copies.

imo

Edited March 20, 2011 by Ford
typ

[maddiemay]

Yes, they charge £5 per statement, but I thought if you sent a subject access request you are entitled to copies of everything for a total maximum charge of £10.

Anyone know if Vanquis make overlimit or late payment charges, they say they dont, I can only assume they charge huge amounts of interest to make up for it, if I could read the tiny print in the T&C I have at last been sent I might be able to answer my own question!

[Guest]

Yes, they charge £5 per statement, but I thought if you sent a subject access request you are entitled to copies of everything for a total maximum charge of £10......

 

hi

see the comments in this article under the heading 'demand your past charges under the dp a'. the article refers to bank charges, but the dp a principle may also apply to cr card charges/statements? it says 'Never ask for statements, specifically request a list of transactions'. did you request copy statements? you could tell them that you require a list of transactions, not copy statements?

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/bank-charges

Edited March 20, 2011 by Ford

[maddiemay]

Mm interesting, I'll have a look and see how I worded my letter back in 2007. Spending the day tomorrow on my amended defence

 

Maddie

[maddiemay]

I have found the notice of assignment Cabot sent me in the same envelope as the welcome to cabot letter, its is quite clearly one engineered by cabot and a poor one at that.

My questions are:

Should this NOA have come from the original creditor?

Is there anything in particular it should contain to make it legal?

Thanks, answer asap please as I need to get this done, hearing tomorrow at 10am to decide if Cabot can have an extention of time, I want to try and get it in front of the judge

[coledog]

NOAs can come from the OC or the debt collector, DCAs are known to issue NOAs on OC notepaper and unfortunately it is probably OK. You can point out that you are unhappy about this but it is probably better to rely on other aspects of your defence

[maddiemay]

Ok thanks for that, just another one while you are there, the claimant is claiming that they are only claiming arrears (which is not true) and therefore didnt need to send a default notice prior to the issue of proceedings, they say they would only need to send one under section 87 (1) of the CCA if they were terminating the agreement, demanding earlier payment, recover possesions etc etc, I'm sure you know all that, however today I actually found a default notice issued by the OC back in 2007, does that sufice or is the new owne of the debt required to sent one too.

Sorry to be a pain, finally, do I need to attach all the documents I refer to now or can they be submitted at a later date? Thats all honestly and thank you for still being awake

[coledog]

Well I am half awake.

 

Is this a 'split claim'? Are they only claiming arrears? Well stuff me, why did you not post this earlier? Have they supplied any docs with the claim itself or have you asked for any?

 

You cannot put in a defence based on anything that you have received before the claim it needs to be on the docs they have issued with the claim or requested after by you under CPR. If they have not issued anything then you need an 'embarrassed defence' hang on while I find one. Can you scan or type up a copy of the POC?

 

Here is the thread on 'split claims' have a look

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?276741-Some-solicitors-using-Split-Claims-how-does-one-defend

[maddiemay]

Get those matchsticks out, I need you! I have posted on here, but I think everybody is fed up with my waffling! I'll try and link the threads, I'm no good at scanning I'm afraid, but I have written everything and more in my previous threads, BRB with the links