Only a few days to get my complex defence in- Cabot

[maddiemay]

I have a couple of questions

 

1) In April I received a notice of assignment from Cabot does this mean they now own my Vanquis debt?

By return I wrote to them saying the account is in dispute and has been since Oct 08 adapting a letter I found on here, dca's passing accounts around (cars and courtlink) and not complying with CCA requests. Received several letters from Cabot, saying we are still looking for doc's etc, last one in June 09. On 19th Oct I received a whole bunch of statements,terms and conditions spread about onto several pieces of paper and a letter to Dear Sample, your card is waiting for you, which on the bottom had a blank acceptance reply card, no cca to be found amongs the many papers.

 

2) Have started receiving calls from them, I think its because I contacted them asking them to remove the default. They told me they can call up to 6 times a day. Is this right?

3) Is there a template for my response to question 1.

 

I am considered a vunlerable person, I had to quickly learn about this when dealing with Bailifs/HC Officers recently, can the same be used when dealing with DCA's?

 

 

Hopefully someone can answer these questions for me.

[mongo34]

Hi Maddie,

 

If the NOA is anything like mine was, it will look very dubious to say the least. Mine was a very pixelated Vanquis copy and paste job, as was the footer with the address and Company details.

 

From what I understand Cabot will have bought the alleged debt from Vanquis for next to nothing in the hope they can frighten you into paying the full amount, if not more.

 

I also just a few days received a pack of statements (copies) which they allege is satisfactory proof that I acknowledge the debt. Poppycock!

 

You need to send them the harassment template letter by recorded delivery. DONT SIGN IT THOUGH.

 

to stop the phone calls

 

Harassment by telephone

 

Account Number: XXXXXXX

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded. (**Even if you don‘t yet have recording equipment!!**)

 

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will be on soon to help you further.

 

Good luck.

[maddiemay]

To be honest I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a real NOA and a dodgy one, I'm pretty certain though from what Ive read about this bunch it would be the latter.

I will post the above letter and hope someone comes along to answer my other questions.

Thanks for your help mongo

[maddiemay]

Sorry to be a bother again but I received a letter this morning from Morgans Solicitors for Cabot who they say own the debt (cant say either way if I had a notice of assignment until I get my very large Cabot file out) The original debt I understand was with Vanquis from years ago, so I dont know how the 1998 CPR Rules are relevant, if they are can someone let me know.

 

I can remember requesting a copy of the CCA from Vanquis ages ago, it sticks in my mind because they sent me a load of paperwork most of which were just computer printouts and I could not make head nor tail of it. I have more than likely requested it again either from DCA and probably Cabot too, Cabot certainly know thats what I want as they've hounded me day and night by phone recently. Usually I would ignore them but this particular letter alarmed me as says the following*, which I thought only came into play after proceedings have been issued which they haven't.

 

This is an important letter and you are obliged to respond to this letter by writing to us by virtue of the Practice Direction to the Pre-Action Protocals within the Civil Procedure rules 1998. If we do not receive a response within one month legal proceeding will be issued.

 

It then goes on to say: We are obliged to inform you that should you not comply with the practice direction, the court has the power to impose sanctions.

 

Had those things not been included I would not be concerned, but I'm slightly confused as to why I am obliged to do anything before any legal proceedings. I do try and deal with these things myself as I'm lucky enough to have the time whereas some people dont and you time is best used with those people, but this is beyond me I'm afraid, so some advice and any possible response I could send would be a great help.

 

Finally if a response is required would it be okay to send it from my CAG e-mail address?

 

Thanks very much

[PGH7447]

Purpose

 

Pre-action protocols outline the steps that parties should take in particular types of dispute to seek information from, and to provide information to, each other prior to making a legal claim.

Paragraph 1 of the Practice Direction defines the purpose of pre-action protocols as:

• encouraging the early exchange of all information relating to the prospective legal claim
  
• aiding settlement of the claim without the commencement of proceedings
  
• producing a foundation for efficient case management where litigation cannot be avoided
  

---------------

Why they have sent this is anybodies guess - if you have cca'd them and they have not provided you with a legible or any agreement then send back the account in dispute letter - hopeflly someone with a bit more legal background can advise further

[maddiemay]

I gave up on scanning the letter in as it was taking too long for me to understand, so for now I have copied the letter word for word with the exception of the address and minicom numbers. How to respond would be really appreciated. Thanks again

 

Dear

We write on behalf of Cabot Financial(UK) Limited with regards to your account. In order for you to fully understand and appropriately respond to this letter, we are providing you with the following information relating to your account

 

Name of account holder......

Original account number.....

Creditor......

Date debt was assigned to Cabot Financial....2009

Current balance outstanding.......

A notice of assignment has already been sent to you

 

Your account is currently in default. Despite previous correspondence and requests from us, you have failed to settle this account, Accordingly, the outstanding balance in now payable immediately.

 

Should you wish to settle this account or discuss a payment plan you must contact us either by telephone or by post immedietely. We have also enclosed information about free debt organisations (which they didn't)

This is a important letter and you are obliged to respond to this letter by writing to us by virtue of the Practice Direction to Pre-action Protocols within the Civil Procedure Rules 1998. If we do not receive a response within one month of the date of this letter(Letter is dated18/1/10) legal proceedings will be issued against you without further notice or warning to you. If you intend to represent yourself in any forthcoming proposed legal proceedings, we can provide you with a copy of the Practice Direction upon request.

 

We are obliged to inform you that should you not comply with the Practice Direction, the court has the power to impose sanctions, which may include costs sanctions.

Call one of our litigation officers on 01732 524610 etc etc

We now look frward to hearing from you

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Morgan

 

Morgan Solicitors

Collection Department

 

Has anyone else had one, seems a bit more upmarket than the usual DCA letters

[cerberusalert]

They're willy waving so two can play at that game... let's see who's got the biggest. Send them this;

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

This is in acknowledgement of your letter dated ................and also of .............The contents of which have been duly noted.

Further to you stressing that County Court proceedings will be actioned by yourselves should I fail to make contact/stressing that proccedings are about to be commenced in regard to alleged sums outstanding and alleged owed by me on the above account,I remind you of Civil procedure rules protocols. Nevertheless in my response to your letter please be advised of the following.

 

 

I put forward that you now have a requirement to provide me with;

 

 

1) A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. Please note that a "true copy" as defined by the Consumer Credit Act will not be acceptable in this case, and a copy of the actual executed agreement, including signature, is required.

 

2) All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to

 

1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, payments and both the amounts of credit and any repayments made to the account.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations

3. Where there has been any event in the account history over this period that has required manual intervention by any person, disclosure of any indication or notes that have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to the account held by me with........... is required.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I make this request to ensure that each party has equal footings which can allow action to proceed speedily fairly and without undue costs or waste of courts time,as defined within Pre-action Practice Directions -Protocols 4.6 of the Civil Procedures Rules.

I will give you 14 days to respond with the above,failure to comply will result in a complaint being made to the Court./In addition to the FOS for any breaches of OFT and CCA codes.This includes breaches as a result of initiating a Country Court claim where failing to provide or produce documents make litigation improper..

Specifically this relates to one or any number of the following;

 

* demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* add any further interest or charges to the account.

* pass/sell the account or outstanding balance to any third party.

* register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencies.

* issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Furthermore,I reserve my right to make a copy of this letter available for inspection to the Court and Financial/Consumer regulators should you fail to comply with this request.

I await your response,and should you need further clarification on any of the above points,then I suggest that you direct them to your legal department.

 

 

 

Yours Faithfully/Sincerely

 

 

 

 

......................... . (not to be signed) Print name

 

 

Dated..........

[maddiemay]

Brilliant, thank you, thank you. I'm doing it now and will send it off by signed for post today.

Ive had a look through my paperwork and I sent a CCA request (enclosing the £1 fee) to C.A.R.S. DCA in Nov 08, and then a SAR request to Vanquis in Dec 2008, they sent the £10 cheque back to the issueing building society saying the account number doesn't correspond to their records and could they give it back to their customer.

 

Once again thank you for your interest

[stunned_monkey]

I would write to them simply to state that you have not been provided with your CCA since your request in 2008. If they want to take you to court, they're going to need one....

[cerberusalert]

I would write to them simply to state that you have not been provided with your CCA since your request in 2008. If they want to take you to court, they're going to need one....

They brought up CPR so if they want to live by the sword they can die from it too. The onus is now on them to provide all the information requested in CPR 31:14 so let them work for an income.

[Bazooka Boo]

I am a little stunned by their sheer audacity in this!!!

I thought pre-action protocols were in place to allow both parties to come to a reasonable mutual agreement without the need of court interference?

Yet they're banding it about as though they have the higher moral ground here, when in actual fact, they are the ones who will fall flat on their !

As when it comes to the compliance section they have fallen way short of compliance.

Examples of non-compliance

 

4.4

 

The court may decide that there has been a failure of compliance by a party because, for example, that party has –

(1) not provided sufficient information to enable the other party to understand the issues;

 

(2) not acted within a time limit set out in a relevant pre-action protocol, or, where no specific time limit applies, within a reasonable period;

 

(3) unreasonably refused to consider ADR (paragraph 8 in Part III of this Practice Direction and the pre-action protocols all contain similar provisions about ADR); or

 

(4) without good reason, not disclosed documents requested to be disclosed.

 

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/practice_directions/pd_pre-action_conduct.htm#IDADCYOB

 

Or am I way out of my depth here?? Again!

[2Grumpy]

Is what they have written a device to maximize their costs - ie brought to your attention that they would take court action against you if you did not contact them ...

[cerberusalert]

The only 'device' is that it's designed to intimidate the average person who hasn't a clue what CPR is let alone understand its principles.

[maddiemay]

Cerberusalert, intimidation would have worked in this case had it not been for you guys on CAG. Should I head the letter (from post 9) CPR 31.14 or is that only relevant after a claim has been issued?

[cerberusalert]

You could head it **Request Under CPR 31:14/15**

[maddiemay]

Ok will do, wouldn't do any harm would it, I'm intrigued to know if anyone else has had one the same, thats the usual pattern with DCA when they learn a new word.

Many thanks to you all

Maddie

[cerberusalert]

On second thoughts don't give it the title **Request Under CPR 31:14/15** just send it as it is.

[maddiemay]

I've just had a scarey thought, although I have requested a copy of the CCA from other DCA's and even the original creditor (CCA & SAR in their case) I dont believe I have actually requested it from Cabot (only verbally). I'm hoping that these requests should have been handed over to Cabot when they bought the debt, but it has just ocurred to me that maybe I should have sent Cabot a request also. Can someone just confirm whether or not one has to CCA everyone as the debt passes along or does just one surfice. It doesn't eally matter as I've prepared my CPR 31.14/15, but it would be useful to know for the future.

I promise thats it for now!

[cerberusalert]

Requesting a CCA just once is adequate. It is the responsibility of whoever you originally requested it from to pass it to the original creditor.

[The Mould]

maddiemay

 

Have you sent your acknowledgment of their letter before claim off yet?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[The Mould]

maddiemay

 

I just want to let you know that your letter is not (not at this stage anyway), or rather should not be titled CPR 31.14 OR 31.15.

 

Come back, Roger.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[The Mould]

maddiemay

 

The Practice Direction that they are referring to is:

 

PRACTICE DIRECTION - PRE-ACTION CONDUCT.

 

Therefore they should of titled their letter as-

 

THIS NOTICE IS SERVED UPON THE DEFENDANT PURSUANT TO CIVIL PROCEDURE RULE -PRACTICE DIRECTION-PRE-ACTION CONDUCT, RULE 7.1(1) AND ANNEX A, 2, 2.1 AND 2.2

 

You need to title your acknowledgment of their letter as-

 

DEFENDANT'S ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF LETTER BEFORE CLAIM.

 

Dear Sir/Madam (helpful if you have a named addressee)

 

I refer to your letter dated xxxxxxxx 2010 which, as you say is served pursuant to the Pre-Action Practice Direction of the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

In accordance with the said Practice Direction I acknowledge the claimant's said letter, I refer you to ANNEX A Rule 3.1.

 

It will be noted that there is quite a long history to this particular matter and as a result it has not been possible for me to fully investigate the issues that you have raised in the said letter before claim.

 

Further to the above-mentioned Rule (3.1), I refer to Rule 3.5 of ANNEX A and confirm that I am in the process of investigating all relevant issues in this matter.

 

Due to the facts stated above I am unable to provide a full or substantive response to the claimant's said letter within the time scale stated therein by him.

 

In order to ensure that both parties remain on equal footing in this matter and that both parties have a genuine opportunity to resolve this matter without needing to start proceedings, I respectfully request disclosure of a copies of the following documents (listed below) from the claimant pursuant to ANNEX A Rule 3.2(3).

 

Once I have received and inspected all documents requested I should then be in a far better position to provide the claimant with the substantive response his said letter requires.

 

At the present time and until my request for disclosure has been complied with I am unable to provide the claimant with a time scale or date which he can expect to be in receipt of my full response to his said letter.

 

I trust that you will find the above is in order.

 

Yours Faithfully (Sincerely, if you have a name)

 

 

Mr/Mrs Blah

 

 

 

(List the documents you require to inspect)

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[maddiemay]

Ok, I'll leave the CPR bit out.

[maddiemay]

Oh, I've just spotted your letter Mould, thank you for that, it looks great. I haven't sent anything off to them yet. The letter is signed by 'Morgan' (Morgans Solicitors). I'll keep you posted.

 

Maddie

[maddiemay]

Hello all,

I'm just composing the letter copied from post 25 and after having a quick look at the above quoted CPR sections, I was wondering if I should also make reference to Anex A 3.2(3) (defendant may request info to be able to provide a full response).

Finally, I would like to change the wording from I am investigating the relevant issues to I am unable to investigate, do you think that would be ok or is it best left as it is.

Maddie