N252 ignored, advice please

[john]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?282955-Hilesden-securities-court-papers-received-**-Discontinued-***

 

Following on from my original thread above, I am having problems getting a response from DLC in relation to my costs. Undercover Elsa drafted me a great letter, (see previous thread) after a rediculous offer, giving them 7 days to respond. As you may have gathered, they haven't.

 

What should I do now? Are they under any obligation to reply? Should I write again? Just when you think its all over lol !!!

[john]

as we had no response from dlc john phoned them today and they said they have nothing to add to what they said before. A very obnoxious man said

 

if you think you can get costs through court then do it as we've made our position clear. We will wait for the court papers

 

so basically we're going to have to go through court for our costs. Just wondered what this entails and could there be a big financial loss for us? Is this never ending!!!!!!!

[john]

Thanks gh2008. So the choice is a solicitor or diy. I presume a N252 would be the next step in DIY? Will investigate local solicitors but would the N252 route not suffice?

Edited March 21, 2011 by john

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi John

This post by SurfaceagentX20 may help:

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk/forum/show-post/post-1701510.html

 

I have prepared a draft bill of costs for detailed assessment and draft notice of commencement. Both are attached in pdf format.

 

In drawing the bill I have tried to keep it as uncomplicated as possible whilst seeking to demonstrate how to maximise the amount which might be allowed. The documents may be of general application in litigation to include for example, dealing with a costs claim after successfully obtaining an order setting aside a Statutory Demand, after making all such necessary modifications to suit.

 

The bill begins with a narrative dealing with the nature of the case and the complexity of it as I imagined it may have appeared to the LiP. My imagination should not be treated as a statement of how the complexity in truth appeared to the LiP.

 

Next is a chronological statement of the steps taken in the case as they will appear on the court file. I have not bothered to go through the entire thread to establish what occurred on what day. The LiP will have to do that.

 

I have included provision for time spent which has been charged at an hourly rate of £9.25 in accordance with The Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975. I can not stress enough that where time is included this is only a statement of time for the purpose of demonstrating how the figures would appear in the bill. My statement of time is not an estimate of time. Only the LiP can say how much time was spent and my statement of time may be an under- statement or an over-statement, I would not know.

 

It is worth pointing out however that the court will recognise that a LiP will most likely spend more time in a case than a solicitor. The relevant Rule is CPR 48.6 with guidance appearing in The Supreme Court Costs Office Guide (COG) Practice Direction at CPR PD 48 COG 22.4 and .5.

 

The question for the Judge considering the bill is if this case had been conducted by a solicitor, what would that solicitor’s reasonable total charge have been for doing that work? Having arrived at that hypothetical figure, the costs judge will assess the bill but disallow whatever the total bill comes to from exceeding two-thirds of the hypothetical figure.

 

It seems to me the hypothetical solicitor may have spent say 6 hours dealing with all the work set out in the bill from beginning to end. At an average charge of £150.00 per hour, that produces a hypothetical figure of £900.00. In other words therefore, if the Judge held my view about what the hypothetical solicitor may have charged, the amount to be allowed to the LiP ought not to exceed £600.00. As you will see, my draft works out at £573.50.

 

What to do Next

Complete the bill adapting the narrative to your personal experience in terms of actual work done and actual time spent. Feel free to add to it where I have not imagined work which you actually did. Insert the dates and sign and date the bill.

 

Next complete Form N252 available from the HMCS website here.

 

You will need to complete the court and party details in the box on the RHS.

 

The draft N242 I have completed gives the position as if my figures were used. Where the total used in the bill is to be different, put that figure in the first figure box where N252 says: ‘The bill totals £xxx.xx’. (figure [1])

 

Next, add £300.00 to figure [1] and put whatever this figure in the next box where N252 says:

the full amount payable (including the assessment fee) will be £xxx.xx). (figure [2]).

 

Next insert a date in the box before which is written: ‘You must serve your points of dispute by’. This date will be a date being not less than 21 days after the date on which your opponent receives the bill and the N252. In practice, add 25 days to the date on which you post the bill out to your opponent. If that date should fall on a Saturday or Sunday, insert the date for the following Monday.

 

Next fill out the box which provides a name and address at which the opposition may deliver any response to the bill of costs. The response will be entitled ‘Points of Dispute’. I don’t imagine one will arrive and if one does, how to deal with it will be dealt with in a later advice.

 

Next, leave the box beginning: ‘I certify that I have also served’ blank

 

Next, at the very end of the bill is a third figure box before which is written ‘If I have not received your points of dispute by the above date, I will ask the court to issue a default costs certificate

for the full amount of my bill (see above*) plus fixed costs and court fee in the total amount of £’ . In this box take the figure [1] and add £45.00 to it. This is the figure which goes in this box (figure [3]).

 

Print the N252 off, sign and date it.

 

Next, send the bill and the N252 off to the opposition’s solicitor.

 

After Having Sent the Bill and N252.

Make a note when the 25 days will be up.

 

I would expect the opposition to make contact with you in an attempt to settle the question of your costs. So as to avoid hassle and heartache, I would be prepared to settle at anything which came to about one third rather than two thirds of the hypothetical solicitor’s bill. On my example, that would be around £300.00 plus the court fee. You may want to settle at something less just to be shot of it.

 

If any offer comes in which is wildly below £300.00 post to this site for advice. I would imagine the opposition will be very keen to settle since objecting will tie them into expense they will wish to avoid and any savings will soon be wiped out by employing a solicitor to deal with the objections.

 

When the cheque comes in, make a donation to CAG.

 

If you have not heard from the opposition by when the 25 days are up you will be entitled to apply to the court for a default costs certificate. When that moment arrives, post here.

 

Any queries, just ask.

 

x20

Attached Files

 

Draft LiP bill of costs for detailed assessment.pdf (56.6 KB, 98 views)

 

Draft Notice of Commencement.pdf (29.9 KB, 65 views)

 

I'd keep it all in writing from now on, for sure.

 

Elsa x

[john]

Thanks Elsa, I have read that well. gh2008 advised getting a solicitor, but I don't know what to do for the best now!!!!

[john]

N252 completed ready to send Monday. See what happens then.

[john]

What happens if they don't make an offer after they recieve the n252 please?

[john]

Can anyone help me on this please?

[john]

still no reply to n252 can anyone please tell me what happens if they don't respond please?

[john]

Just seen this letter co Vjohn83 and wondered if I should send a similar follow up letter? Any opinions?

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

As previously stated on the 4th May 2010 I acknowledge receipt of your clients Notice of Discontinuance. Under CPR 38.6 it states that parties who discontinue are liable for costs. I have issued an N252 form with a deadline date of the 25th May 2010 whereby you are to pay the costs or raise your points of dispute.

 

As of today I have not received any notice of your points of dispute and you have not paid my costs. Therefore I am prepared to be reasonable and allow a further 7 days from the date of this letter before I issue a default costs certificate for £208.48. If a default costs certificate is awarded your client may set asideicon the certificate by making an application to the court and paying a £100 application fee whereby the process will ultimately restart.

 

If you raise your points of dispute within this period you will be liable for a £300 assessment fee. Again as your client discontinued it is reasonable to assume that liability for costs has already been established. You are referred to the case of Far Out Productions & others vs. Unilver & others [2009] EWHC 3484 (Ch) was heard in the High Court where Deputy Judge Strauss Q.C. agreed with Mr Prescott Q.C, that:

 

“4.the effect of discontinuance is to deprive the party, against whom (at least in some cases including this one) serious allegations have been made, of the opportunity of vindicating himself. Therefore, if the claimant chooses to bring proceedings, but then discontinues them, it is only natural that he should pay the defendant's costs”

 

You are also referred to the case of HHJ Waksman QC in Carey v HSBCicon Bank Plc [2009] EWHC

3417 (QB) (and others) where it was held that:

 

“When a party discontinues, there is a presumption by reason of CPR38.6 that the Defendant will get his costs. The burden is firmly upon the Claimant to show that there is good reason to disapply it.”

 

There is clearly no argument your client can use to suggest that costs should not be applied in this matter and your cooperation from this point onward is appreciated. I expect either full settlement of the costs or your points of dispute by the 3rd June 2010.

 

Yours faithfully,

[cerberusalert]

Thread retitled as requested.

[john]

thank you.

[john]

Times up tomorrow, any advice - please???

[john]

Anyone - please?

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi John,

It seems very quiet on here at the moment..so sorry you're not getting any responses.

 

The letter looks fine to me, but you need to get some more input. Might be an idea to pm vjohn and ask him to take a look at your thread, or ask postggj to have a look back in.

Elsa x

 

Failing that I'd hit the !triangle again and ask the site team if anyone can help.

[hammyhound]

John,

 

If you have not heard from the Claimant after the 25 days you fill in an N254.

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n254_0702.pdf

 

You send it to the court with your N252 and your Notice of Discontinuance.

 

Hopefully once the court have sent the Default Costs Certificate you will receive your cheque. If you haven't heard from the court in say 2 weeks chase them up. You should also receive a copy of the Default Costs Certificate and if I was you I would send a copy to the Claimant recorded delivery just in case they claim not to have received the court's copy.

 

I was awarded costs, filled in the N252 then the N254 and I even had to send the bailiffs in but got cheque in the end.

 

HH

[john]

Thank you very much for that, I was just about giving up hope. As I am away for a week I thought I might send a similar letter as quoted to show my reasonableness , and give me some breathing space? Does that sound reasonable?

[hammyhound]

No John, you don't have to do anything apart from what I have said. The pressure is now on them, ie they pay within the 25 days or you send in the request for a default certificate. I am sure there is a fee for this but the court will include that in their certificate anyway.

 

Get that request in now.

 

HH

[Signaller]

Hi,

 

can you please let me know the outcome of this.Thank You.

 

Regards

 

Signaller