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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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Capital One "Agreement" - Valid? Help Please!


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Proof of recorded delivery:

 

5e219687592087.jpg

 

I also haven't had any phone calls for two days now :)

 

I was wondering though, account is now in dispute...

 

If Lowell magically come up with a true credit agreement, presumably then I would have to make a repayment offer for an amount I can reasonably afford, instead of the huge monthly amounts they were previously demanding?

 

Conversely, if they cannot come up with a true CCA and I pay nothing to them for six years, it then becomes statute barred.

 

Does that then mean that the alleged debt still remains, but is unenforceable? If so, how would I be able to make the whole thing go away?

 

Any advice welcomed and thanks once again.

 

 

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If Lowell magically come up with a true credit agreement, presumably then I would have to make a repayment offer for an amount I can reasonably afford, instead of the huge monthly amounts they were previously demanding? Yes that is correct. They could go to Court, if your offer was not acceptable.

 

Conversely, if they cannot come up with a true CCA and I pay nothing to them for six years, it then becomes statute barred. Yes that is correct.

 

Does that then mean that the alleged debt still remains, but is unenforceable? Yes If so, how would I be able to make the whole thing go away? They might never say whether they can get hold of the CCA. They would prefer to drag this out. You could go down the route of offering a full and final settlement for a percentage of the debt, provided the credit record, is recorded as satisfied and any remaining amount is written off. For a F&F settlement to be acceptable, you would probably be looking at needing atleast 30% of the debt available to pay as a lump sum.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi All,

 

I CCA'd Lowell about two and a half months ago, then sent the account in dispute letter when they'd produced nothing within the time limit.

 

Last week, they sent me a copy of my original credit agreement from 1999 (looks fine to me - I've double checked it) plus a copy of the original terms and conditions and a copy of those currently in force. Both are sequentially numbered and have no paragraphs, etc. missing. This, however, is all they've sent.

 

I was under the impression that this is all well and good, but that they should also have supplied a full statement of payments made to the account and any interest or charges added, dating from at least the time that they bought the account from Capital One, which was in 2006.

 

Does this make the CCA invalid until the statement(s) are received or am I going to have to set up a standing order now? They gave me 21 days to reply from the date of their covering letter (sent 2nd class of course) asking for my repayment proposals.

 

Should I write stating that they haven't yet fully complied with my CCA request or am I wrong on this point? :-|

 

This isn't statute barred, as I was paying installments until May this year, when I found CAG!

 

Thanks for any help.

 

H.

 

 

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It's a bit small.

 

Click it mate. It gets much bigger! :p

 

I think I may also have answered my own initial question, as the "Account In Dispute" template cleary states:

 

"The document that you are obliged to send me...

...if the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition, a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account."

 

I'll be writing to Lowell again tomorrow. :cool:

 

 

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Guest Cartaphilus

I can see it now, and that's a new name on the signature a 'M Hooper' ... I have forgotten which name Capital One usually shoves on most applications from around that year.

Edited by Cartaphilus
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Guest Cartaphilus
I'm sorry... It clicks fine for me.
Right, well, it may 'clicks fine' for you but you can yes certainly click on the link but when it came to clicking, then enlarging it wouldn't work. I was merely saying this, as I am not backward where PC usage is concerned and the simple expedient of clicking an object which, in fact, is the first thing I did upon getting the image up. I merely mentioned it because I couldn't see it properly, for no other reason, therefore others may not have been able to. You can see it on the other link you provided.

 

Also, are you sure that agreement is enforceable because from what I was reading, most Capital One agreements from that long ago weren't (threads found on CAG). Mine's not for example. Just mentioning it.

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I'm sorry Caraphilus. There was no intention to drive you potty... and thanks for the input.

HS - mine was spinning when I suddenly saw that I'd been missing "Application Form" staring me in the face, plus a huge ad at the side saying, "Fill in this application form..." We live and learn!

 

Plus there's the not providing all the relevant required info. Letter sent today.

 

I'll keep you updated on their response, which is bound to be, "We believe that we have fulfilled our obligations under... blah blah..."

 

We all know which letter they'll get if that's the case! :p

 

End's in ".... .ff" :cool:

 

 

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I'd love a bit of help please, if anyone can advise.

 

Received a letter from Lowell on Saturday, containing a thick wad of statements of payments to my account from when I was repaying Capital One directly.

 

However, the statements don't show any of the payments I've made to Lowell since 2006 or any of the charges they (might) have added to the account. While with Lowell, I've paid off a substantial amount of the balance, so I would expect them to at least give me a breakdown of my payments to them. I'm not in a position to be able to make any kind of full and final offer, as I'm in receipt of JSA. The reason I contested the debt was because they were asking me to pay back nearly £35 a month, which was completely unreasonable in my circumstances and they wouldn't budge from their position.

 

Which letter should I now send them? They've asked for payment proposals within 7 days of the following standard letter:

 

35f27895467957.jpg

 

http://www.imagebam.com/image/35f27895467957"

 

 

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Suggest that you compose a letter saying that the account is still in dispute as they have not supplied an executable credit agreement add date when you asked for this. Insist that they supply a full breakdown of all payments made since 'date' and details of all charges etc which make up current balance of the alleged account as you wish to take further advice on this matter. Add that you do not acknowledge the alleged sum outstanding.

 

On JSA you are only expected to pay £1 per week or less but nothing if they cannot prove the debt is owed and it could have been paid off for all you know (if they have not taken all payments into account).

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Thanks alot for that Coledog. Roughly what I was intending. I think the generally accepted amount to pay while on JSA is £1 for every Benefit payment. As they're paid out fortnightly, that would be £1 every two weeks.

 

If anyone has any further info that I may have missed, please do let me know as I'll have to send a letter tomorrow!

 

Thanks

 

H.

 

 

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  • 6 months later...

I had a Capital One CC from 1999. It was sold to Lowell who had bullied, harassed by phone (letter sent and harassment stopped) and they demanded far more than I could pay while on benefits.

 

My dispute is that after Lowell's appalling behaviour, I started investigating via CAG whether these bullies were legally entitled to collect on the alleged debt.

 

I sent a CCA request, which took them 3 months to reply to. I disputed its validity and they then took another five months to send me a copy of:

 

Original application form (headed as such) rather than agreement:

 

ApplicationForm.jpg

 

Breakdown of payments made to the account (shows no payments from 2005 onwards) although I was paying Lowell up until July 2010. The covering letter shows a greatly differing balance to that shown at the end of their statement:

 

CoverLetter.jpg

 

compared with:

 

EndStatement.jpg

 

They refer to the case of RBS V McGuffick in the above covering letter, but I thought there was more to the case than that.

 

They have finally sent a threatogram thus:

 

Threat.jpg

 

They have also completely ignored my written request (signed for by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery) for a complete copy of their complaints procedure - requested in September 2010.

 

I'm now inclined to complain directly to the regulatory bodies - mainly about harassment and the distress caused by automated phone calls, verbal threats, etc. and simply copy the complaint letter to Lowell.

 

However, I'd like some advice please as to whether or not the supposed CCA response is valid. I didn't receive any agreement from Capital One in the first place. The Application form was the only thing.

 

I certainly won't be phoning them as they suggest - I don't want more bullying and threats by phone! They've had the "In writing only" letter from me anyway. I think that as they took five months to reply to my last letter, then me taking a couple of weeks to respond to them isn't unreasonable! Their latest letter of course, states "...may result in further action." as usual...

 

Any advice would be gratefully received.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

H. x

Edited by Halibutt

 

 

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In my opinion it proves that you applied for the card not that

they actually issued one.

The court case dealt with I believe with an agreement that was mislaid not

a non existent one.

you could try SAR to Cap1

I would write to say debt remains in dispute until the break down of the fiogures

is provide send RD of course.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

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I see no terms and conditions that most be contained within the same 4 corners, and i see no note saying terms and conditions overleaf. So to me it is not enforcable on that alone, but more vital is the complete lack of the perscribe terms.

 

So no it is not a valid CCA and it is completely unenforceable. So send them this:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?436-Failure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale.

 

And this;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?415-POSSIBLE-Letter-when-a-questionable-agreement-application-is-sent.

 

Edit them to suit.

 

P.s. Add this in response to their RBS v McGuffick statement - under Regulation 7 of the Copies Regulations because Waksman in Carey v HSBClink3.gif [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) para. 108 stated ‘I conclude that Reg. 7 requires a copy of the executed agreement in its original form….’

 

Note the McGuffick judgement was on the 6th October 2009 but the 1 i mention above was another high court judgement that was passed down on the 23rd December 2009 and as such the Carey V RBS is a legal precedent and the Mcguffick case in regards to a CCA is irrelevant as of the Carey V RBS case

Edited by teaboy2
added p.s.

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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Any charges you could re-claim ?

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

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Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

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Thanks for all the help and advice so far guys - much appreciated. No charges that I can see at the moment, Maroondevo - apart from normal interest whilst the card was supposedly in operation.

 

I forgot to add that they did send a set of typed sheets (not original documents) that they claim outlines both the original and amended terms and conditions. But then, they could have been typed by my Mum in her kitchen...

 

Also no copy or acknowledgement of either assignment or default notice.

 

I think I need to put together a response, detailing all the errors/non-compliance so far and also reiterate that I require a copy of their complaints procedure by return.

 

 

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