Automatically unfair dismissal?

[elpulpo]

 

I'll try not to take offence

you know what you're like.

Yorkshire(ish)?? You're either with us or against us.

[hhh_88873]

No they have several reasons of gross misconduct, but the only one that is relevant to me states precisely

 

'Convicted by a court for a serious offence'

 

and the more recent version of their policy updated 6 months later that states exactly as follows

 

'The conviction on a criminal charge that is relevant to and may affect the credibilty of your employment with the company'

[hhh_88873]

another little tit bit that Ive got is that I believe that they had made the decision to fire me before they had even finished my investigation meeting. The proof is that is contained in an jobcentre advert for my exact job, same title, same description, posted on the exact same day that I was investigated and suspended. I have a hard copy of this advert in my possession.

[cirian75]

ohhh, proof of prejudgment, thats a big no no.

[Atlas01]

That would depend not only on the op being able to show that there was 1 unique job for this employer and therefore the ad was for his post but also the employer not being able to twist the ad "we were hiring more people that's all" before it comes up in any appeal.

 

You may have cast iron proof at the moment, keeping it that way may be difficult once they get wind of it.

 

As far as the gross misconduct list, unless it states "the following are the only reasons on which we may dismiss you" the argument is irrelevant, most policy's have the "not exhaustive" caveat. There are implied terms as well as written ones

[hhh_88873]

Youre right on the prejudgement, however in a meeting about 4 weeks previously the manager who sent me to discipline expressly stated that they were not hiring more people in my role as it was not neccessary. The role was also very definitely my job as I was the only one working in that role.

 

The 'not exhaustive' is indeed on there, however as none of the rest are related to an alleged crime being committed, I dont see how they can escape from the fact that it clearly says 'Conviction' when I wasnt even charged.

[elpulpo]

It's not something that I'd rely on too much.

[hhh_88873]

OK, Ive just found new evidence which I think might help.

Remember I said I had to prove a breach of the working time directives or something else before I would be allowed to bring in the breach of human rights?

Well Ive been preparing an evidence bundle to present and Ive come across rotas that prove I was being forced to work as a driver with as little as 4-5 hours rest periods between shifts.

 

As this is a health and safety matter, as well as statutory law, I think this will be enough to prove a breach of a statutory right and thus bring human rights into play.

 

It might be clutching at straws, but it proves definitively that they were not giving me adequate rest which is an allegation I made from the start.

The judge said that my human rights argument would only be valid if I could prove one or more of my other allegations, surely this will be enough?

[hhh_88873]

Ok if SarEl or Elpulpo are around, help!! Ive had an email from the company today saying they will be sending a copy of the police statement to me for evidence, Im thinking that surely the police statement is irrelevant/indadmissable? their job is to put a case before the cps, case closed right? surely what they think after the fact isnt admissable? the fact is that the police were proved wrong?

[hhh_88873]

Hey guys.

 

Ive today been offered a place in the community volunteers section with my local fire and rescue service.

Ive shown them my standard crbs from SIA background checks which show a caution and a conviction for a daft playground scrap in school back in 1996.

 

My question is this, Ive had a couplf arrests due to false allegations from my ex, and an arrest from when i moved a youth off the site where I used to work.

 

No charges or cautions or warnings or anything were ever filed, so Im completely clear.

 

I am concerned that due to this post requiring an enhanced CRB that these arrests will show up as I didnt mention them as the only questions asked were 'Do I have any convictions' (exempt from the rehab of offenders act 1974) and I did disclose what I had from school and they said not to worry.

 

Any thoughts?

[cerberusalert]

An arrest is not a conviction, although it may show up on a CRB check.

 

It would be different if they had asked if you have been arrested and you hadn't answered fully.

[hhh_88873]

Ok, Ive today spoken to another firm who had offered me a post, and they have confirmed that the offer was withdrawn following a negative reference from the manager who had set me to discipline in this matter. Theyve said that they will action the written request that I made to them and will give me written confirmation that there was a conversation with the relevant manager who did tell them I had been arrested and fired. What difference will this make do you reckon?

[Atlas01]

There is a chasm between employment law and criminal law when it comes to proving guilt, the police need "beyond reasonable doubt", employers need only "on the balance of probabilities"

 

If it's factual that you were arrested and fired then they can state this on a reference, in addition your statement to the police is a factual document and therefore if they have possession of it by legitimate means they can use it.

 

As far as attempting to draw in the HRA to this issue, i'm sorry but i pretty much on all occasions someone wants to do this have the opinion the person has passed clutching at straws and has delved into the grounds of insanity. (in employment law terms)

 

I'm not a lawyer so i could be way off but experience tells me i think your going way off track with what your trying to do.

[hhh_88873]

Hi guys.

 

OK Ive just got back in work after 6 months unemployed so woohoo!!

However..........

 

I have signed my contract which specifies my position, specifies a minimum of 55 hours a week, and I went in two weeks early to cover a position for the company that wasnt going to be my usual role, but due to my experience they asked if I would help them out and do this job for a fortnight until someone else can come in and take over, as they were working their notice.

 

No problem on my side, Im just happy to be back in work.

 

So did that, and got to the end of what I was going to be doing as a favour and was told Id be contacted regarding my full time position, to do training and to start etc.

 

Ive now had a phone call saying the guy I was going to be replacing and has now decided not to leave, and my job that I was offered is no longer there. I already have the job offer in writing, a confirmed contract in writing, signed by both parties but they are now saying all I can possibly have is holiday cover which may or may not cover my 55 hours.

 

Its also not the job I applied for. I discussed the holiday cover in my initial interview and made it clear I wasnt interested in that post, and the post I was subsequently offered was not that post, but the one I actually applied for, this is confirmed in writing.

 

Anyone got any ideas where I stand now?

[charlee]

08457 47 47 47. Im sorry but I dont know where you stand. That's ACAS's number, phone them and see what they have to say

[hhh_88873]

Im gonna be doing that as soon as the wife gets in with the phone lol

[Bigredbus]

LOL...

 

Ok, it is a breach of contract, indeed... an offer has been made in writing, and acceptance in writing... which validates the contract...

[RachelMD]

Oh. Here we go again. Dare I say anything...

[Bigredbus]

Don't you dare woman! Don't you dare!... LOLOL

[hhh_88873]

Dare dare!!! Lol!!

[Bigredbus]

Oh my... Zeus thunder! LOL

[RachelMD]

OK. If anyone argues with me, I take my bat home.

 

According to the contract, how much notice were you entitled to receive were the employer to decide to terminate within the first month?

[hhh_88873]

One week. Ive emailed him saying Im not interested in any other position than the one Ive already accepted and this was his response.

 

As explained in an earlier phone call to you the mobile patrol vacancy is now no longer available, as the employee wishes to stay with ***** Ltd.

We have offered you an alternative position of covering officer within the company. In your interview you expressed that you did not want a covering position. At present ***** Ltd only have a covering vacancy.

 

You stated in your email that you feel that ‘it’s a dead end career wise.’ I disagree with your opinion as ***** Ltd only promotes internally and working on all the sites would give any potential manager a good working knowledge of all the sites.

 

I appreciate that this must be disappointing to you but I am unable to create a position that does not exist as this would not be financially viable to the company.

 

You state ‘I doubt whether a cover position would cover my 55 contracted hours’ – please see clause 10.1 in your contract which allows the employer to alter/reduce the hours to suite the operational needs of the business.

 

If you would like to take up the covering position please acknowledge by way of email.

 

If you do not wish to take the covering position offered to you, then I would like to take this opportunity to thank you and wish you every success in your future career.

 

I look forward to your reply.

[RachelMD]

So if you were entitled to 1 weeks notice from the outset of employment, you're entitled to 1 weeks pay from them.

[hhh_88873]

Not arsed about getting a weeks pay, Im more arsed about why they are changing theyre minds whent heve already signed a contract that says Im doing this job and thats that as far as Im concerned. Thats what I thought contracts were for.