Shoddy 'Apple' products

[incrediblesulk]

I am a Windows user but prefer the look and feel of a Mac keyboard and mouse - both of which I've used easily and happily for some time now.

I bought a Mac keyboard from Amazon, it developed a fault so they sent me a replacement, that is dodgy too. I also bought a Mac mouse which fails to scroll down. I contacted them and they said I should take it up with Apple, in disgust I cancelled my Amazon account and am wondering what rights I have with the manufacturer (if any), both products are about 4 months old.

[ashmk]

Amazon are 100% responsible for this. Your contract is with them not Apple. They know this but are fobbing you off in the hope you do not know your rights.

[perplexity]

...and am wondering what rights I have with the manufacturer (if any), both products are about 4 months old.

 

 

Generally speaking, the liability of the producer is for health and safety.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1987/43/section/2/prospective

 

8-)

[incrediblesulk]

Amazon are 100% responsible for this. Your contract is with them not Apple. They know this but are fobbing you off in the hope you do not know your rights.

Ah, interesting thanks; is there a law or group of laws I can quote to them to entice them to act?

[Neonin]

It seems lots of retailers fob you off and tell you to contact the manufacturer... considering it's the retailer who's responsible it's amazing manufacturers let them get away with it.

 

The law you're looking to quote is the Sale of Goods Act (SOGA). You can find more information by reading this topic.

[incrediblesulk]

Neonin, nice one thanks a lot. I'll contact Amazon and report back here asap.

[perplexity]

It seems lots of retailers fob you off and tell you to contact the manufacturer... considering it's the retailer who's responsible it's amazing manufacturers let them get away with it.

 

-----

 

Far from letting them get away with it, I rather suspect that Amazon, as an authorised Apple Reseller, owns no authority to do anything but refer a complaint to Apple, to be dealt with under their general Warranty.

 

No Apple reseller, agent, or employee is authorized to make any modification, extension, or addition to this warranty.

http://images.apple.com/legal/warranty/docs/cpuwarranty.pdf

 

8-)

[ScarletPimpernel]

-----

 

Far from letting them get away with it, I rather suspect that Amazon, as an authorised Apple Reseller, owns no authority to do anything but refer a complaint to Apple, to be dealt with under their general Warranty.

 

http://images.apple.com/legal/warranty/docs/cpuwarranty.pdf

 

8-)

 

This may or may not be the case; either way it has no bearing on Amazon's responsibility under SOGA.

[imaginarynumber]

 

Generally speaking, the liability of the producer is for health and safety.

 

 

 

 

8-)

 

Off topic but my understanding is that if any product has a CE you don't have any health and Safety rights as the EU has declared them as safe.

[perplexity]

Off topic but my understanding is that if any product has a CE you don't have any health and Safety rights as the EU has declared them as safe.

 

No.

 

If you want to look it up, 93/465/EEC defines the purpose of the CE mark, 85/374/EEC covers product liability.

 

8)

[incrediblesulk]

Yikes, I'm a bit lost with all the legal chat but thanks for helping me out people, I've emailed Amazon and look forward to updating my progress here. If only the retailers were more honest and treated us consumers fairly we would probably not5 even have this great forum!

[imaginarynumber]

 

No.

 

If you want to look it up, .... covers product liability.

 

8)

 

You may well be correct- my only experience follows trying to report a dangerous German product to the DTI- they told me that was the case- in the end I had to get trading standards involved.

 

Will look into the links later

 

Thanks

Edited February 10, 2011 by imaginarynumber
forgot to say thanks

[perplexity]

Yikes, I'm a bit lost with all the legal chat but thanks for helping me out people, I've emailed Amazon and look forward to updating my progress here. If only the retailers were more honest and treated us consumers fairly we would probably not5 even have this great forum!

 

 

What is so dishonest about expecting Apple to honour their one year general warranty if this was already paid for?

 

You wanted know what rights you have with the manufacturer (if any).

 

Assuming that the warranty applies, the buyer's right is to enforce the contract, the promise to repair, replace or refund. It's a unilateral contract with Apple, concluded when a buyer purchases their hardware from an authorised supplier..

 

8-)

[Kraken1]

Your rights against amazon come from the soga.

 

The terms of any guarantee are also contractually enforceable against apple.

[perplexity]

I asked my son about this when he got home from work tonight.

 

He's a computer addict, buys a lot of stuff online, says that he's sent stuff back to Apple and they replace within a week which is a faster response than you would get with Amazon, so he fails to see what the fuss is about.

 

8)

[labrat]

well the fuss is that if apple repalce the product you can no longer use the rights under the SOGA as it is no longer the product sold

 

so if it then develops a fault outside of the warrenty you have no come back

[perplexity]

well the fuss is that if apple repalce the product you can no longer use the rights under the SOGA as it is no longer the product sold

 

so if it then develops a fault outside of the warrenty you have no come back

 

To the contrary, the comeback would be at least what it would be if Amazon did the same because the terms of the Warranty especially say so:

 

... THE BENEFITS CONFERRED BY THIS WARRANTY ARE IN ADDITION TO ALL RIGHTS AND REMEDIES CONVEYED BY SUCH CONSUMER PROTECTION LAWS AND REGULATIONS. THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT EXCLUDE, LIMIT OR SUSPEND ANY RIGHTS OF CONSUMERS ARISING OUT OF NON-CONFORMITY WITH A SALES CONTRACT.

 

etcetera.

[Kraken1]

I don't think that a warranty would be transferrable in such a case, and that if a product were replaced by another party then it would effectively end any contractual relationship between the seller and the buyer. I might be wrong though. Not really thought about it.

[imaginarynumber]

Wouldn't any replacement need to be of merchantable quality for a further 12 months?

[perplexity]

Wouldn't any replacement need to be of merchantable quality for a further 12 months?

 

Yes.

 

I am not so sure that an authorised resale should count as a sale of goods to start with, as opposed to a transfer of property under Part I of the Goods and Service Act 1982.

 

Whichever the case would be, the requirement to conform to description and the Implied terms about quality or fitness are equivalent, and the same would go for the replacement of goods because of a warranty. There doesn't actually have to be a price to pay in order to be protected so long as there is some sort of consideration.

 

Otherwise, Apple go out of their way to encourage a customer with a complaint to get back to them when something goes wrong because it is in their interest to know when it does. It is not so much of a big secret that a lot electronic goods are inadequately tested before they get to the open market, because of the need to be there before the opposition. In effect, the sale extends the test.

 

Unfortunate though this is, I commend to play along, instead of attempting to beat the system.

 

8)

[Kraken1]

Wouldn't any replacement need to be of merchantable quality for a further 12 months?

 

 

Only if there was a valid contract. This is the debatable point - is there a contract? If there is who is it between?

[mdfrance]

I have had a number of issues over the past 10 years with purchases from and through Amazon and everyone to date has been sorted without a problem. So Amazon are usually very good with sorting out problems. The same cannot be said for marketplace sellers. People are not often aware of Amazon types of sale.. Amazon themselves, Amazon Market Place sellers who are 3rd party and here's one that people get confused with Fulfilled by Amazon in which Amazon effectively act as a 3rd party logistic warehouse for marketplace sellers. People can easily mistake this as being sold by Amazon directly when it is not.

 

However if there are issues you should consult Amazon's T&Cs especially when it comes to disputes with faulty products. Market Place sellers and Fulfillment Sellers have to adhere to T&Cs and I suggest that you send the items back and launch a claim for refund under the internal system especially if the replacements are dodgy upon receipt and they where notified at the time.