S&W Ridings - Claimform - outstanding funeral cost 'debt'

[Isiris]

I signed a very basic contract with a company for services.

 

There is no perogative in the contract for the sharing of my details with anyone in regards debt collection.

 

I am now being pursued by a company call BRICKIE Debt Collection Services LTD (They are not called this but the first word is reference to the occupation of the contractor)

 

I have, on numerous occasions emailed them in regards to the legality in them collecting this debt and their license to be debt collectors as I couldnt find any with the OFT

 

They have wrote the following

 

If you refer to the Full Terms of the Data Protection Act you will note that there are exemptions specified and in particular "Personal data is exempt from the non disclosure provisions" where the disclosure is necessary for, or in connection with any legal proceedings (Including prospective legal proceedings) - as applies here

 

Contraty to what you say, we are a limited company and not a debt collection agency and therefore are not required to be licensed as such.

 

Now excuse me, if its white, quacks, lays eggs, has a S neck and swims on water, its a swan. The company is called ***** Debt Collection Limited so surely they have to be registered.

 

In regards the DPA, are they making this up? If this was the case, why would large companies have clauses allowing them to share your info.

 

Regards

Edited November 15, 2010 by Isiris

[harrassed senior]

A little difficult to know what to say, obviously something not right, have you checked Companies House for their information?

[unclebulgaria67]

A call to Consumer Direct should help you find out about this.

 

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/

[PGH7447]

without a name it is difficult to investigate if they are a dca or not!!

[Isiris]

The company is call Funeral Debt Collections LTD

 

What happened was

 

 

my Father died and

 

 

because he hadnt any will and my mother was in an care home, we had to apply for Deputyship to manage her affairs.

 

 

Then my mother dies 3 months later so the deputy ship was not needed.

 

 

I had signed a very basic contract to say I would pay my dads funeral and did all except 530

 

 

then my mother died and because there was an outstanding balance I had to pay 3k for my mums in advance.

 

 

We are selling the family home and I havent any funds left to pay the outstanding.

 

The whole situation is false to me.

 

 

Theres no proviso for sharing my info,

they by their own tongue say they arent a debt collectors yet their name is Funeral Debt Collections LTD

and they say they dont need to be licensed as they are a LTD company.

 

 

What diff does that make?

[ScarletPimpernel]

Being a limited company makes no difference. Can you provide some further information, which should be on their letterhead and emails:

 

- company registration number

 

- Registered Office address

 

- any other info that might pinpoint who they are and where they are operating from

[Isiris]

Sure

 

PO BOX 271

Beverley

HU17 6DE

 

 

From Companies House

 

FUNERAL DEBT COLLECTION LIMITED

c/o BRADBURY & CO ACCOUNTANTS LIMITED

34 MIDDLE STREET SOUTH

DRIFFIELD

NORTH HUMBERSIDE

UNITED KINGDOM

YO25 6PS

Company No. 06761779

 

 

They asked for the cheque to be made out to A J Smith Funeral Service (Not the firm we used)

[Isiris]

There accounts are interesting.

 

Nothing lol

 

Just says 100 shares. No details of revenue in or out.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I suspect that the accountants may just be providing a R/O service.

 

Not only is there no consumer credit licence, they do not appear to be registered with ICO. It's a dormant company, which is usually indicative of some sort of in-house DCA or a sideline actibvity of another company. Who is the FD concerned?

 

If I have time tomorrow I'll ring the Post Office and get the real address behind the PO Box, just to see if there's anything of interest.

 

In the meantime, I would be inclined to drop these eejits a line to the effect that you have no intention of assisting them in criminal activity (carrying out licenceable activity without a licence is a criminal offence), and will not correspond with them further.

 

Send a report (not a complaint) to the OFT and your local Trading Standards.

[Isiris]

Many thanks SP.

 

Look forward to your findings

[ScarletPimpernel]

It'll be easier if you can say who the FD (funeral director) concerned is...

[Isiris]

Sorry

S&W Riding Funerals LTD

 

At the bottom of the contract where any terms are it says

 

You, as the person arranging the funeral, are responsible for all charges. If someone else has agreed to pay the funeral expenses, the executers for example, please provide their details below.

 

Please note, we will have to ask you for payment if the person(s) named above are unable to secure our account when it comes due. I confirm that I have the authority to arrange the funeral of the deceased. I understand that by signing this form I am accepting responsibility for payment of the account.

 

There is then my signature BUT no name or address of the signatory.

[Isiris]

Ive decided, for the time being, to just sit and do anything.

 

I can see these digging a big hole for themselves so I dont want to forwarn them of any knowledge I might have.

 

Did you find out the real mail address ?

Thanks

[ScarletPimpernel]

Sadly the phone system at work blocks the Royal Mail number, and my mobile network charges like a mad rhino for 0845 numbers, so I have yet to call. However, enquiries in other areas have proved rewarding.

 

On a rather grubby industrial estate in East Yorkshire, not far from the PO Box postcode, there is a scruffy building which is registered office to a substantial number of companies connected to the funeral business, including S & W Riding Funerals and Funeral Debt Collection. It is likely that A J Smith Funeral Services is a part of it too, and they didn't edit the template before sending. What links them is one man who is a director of them all.

 

Interestingly, quite a few of the funeral businesses had consumer credit licences, but they all lapsed years ago. Not one of the businesses is registered with ICO.

 

Quite a can of worms!

 

It will be interesting to see what their next move is.

 

In the meantime, you may find it useful to download a copy of the NAFD's Code of Practice. You could pass the time waiting for FDC's next letter spotting contraventions (tip: there are quite a few). This is not as flippant as it may sound - under the CPUTR, a business that fails to comply with a code of practice that it has subscribed to commits an offence...

[Isiris]

Many thanks for your time

 

Like I said, I will sit and wait for their next move.

 

By the way, I am not trying to not pay this obviously, just when the house is sold as I am now 5.5k of my own money tied up in this.

[Bazooka Boo]

This is hurting my head trying to piece it all together..

 

S&W Ridings address comes back to the Co-Op funeral directors

36 Hoyland Rd

Hoyland, Barnsley, South Yorkshire S74 0PB

01226 741 561

 

Although they are on the NAFD members list? What a curious web they weave???

[ScarletPimpernel]

There are not very many truly independent funeral directors in the UK. It's a very expensive business to set up for those providing full service - refrigeration, chapels of rest, hearses and cars etc. In many cases the original firms are in fact just the front end of a much bigger organisation that uses centralised assets whilst retaining the marketing advantage of old-established names. This is what is likely to be happening in this case.

 

These are all seperate companies, but they share a common director.

[Isiris]

As I recall, the building DID USED to be the coop, then Ridings appeared.

[Bazooka Boo]

I see that you can also buy and sell funeral cars on the NAFD website! How utterly bizarre....

[Isiris]

Just an update and some help.

 

I have today received a County Court Summons for the outstanding. The Application is in the name of S&W Ridings though I have never had any contact with S&W Ridings about the outstanding, only the alleged Debt Collection Company.

[Isiris]

To cut a story short, I had a claim raised against me. The claimant used an unlicensed Debt Collection Company, this has been confirmed by the Trading Standards of that area who are dealing with this.

The claim form was issued on the 12th Septemeber and I sent my AOS and intention to defend and counter claim on the 27th September by first class post.

 

On the 4th October, the judgement was entered by default and on the 6th October, my AOS was marked as received. When I telephoned to ask, they said "We are 8 days behind"

 

The claimants agent then wrote and I informed them I intended to apply for the Judgement to be Set Aside. So they sent in the High Court Sherrif to enforce.

 

Now I have a number of question which I will number and hope people can advise.

 

1. As the LBA was sent by an unlicensed Debt Collector (They knew I knew this and I told them anything they wrote would be ignored) is it valid.

 

2. They sent in the HCEO deliberately but again, are they allowed to do this as they are neither a solicitor nor a debt collection agency. I have seen letters to the HCEO and they are all from the unlicensed firm.

 

3. I applied for a Set a Side and Stay of Execution but the hearing I have only says Stay of Execution. Will the Set Aside be heard as well?

 

4. Is there a way I can ask for the documents held by the HCEO to be made available to me for court.

 

Regards

[Ganymede]

1) Yes

 

2) Yes

 

3) Maybe - what did you specifically say in you application?

 

4) No

[Isiris]

Really? As I was reading the Legal Services Act 2007 and it states

 

Only an authorised person or an exempt person can carry out a reserved legal activity (s. 14). It is a crime to carry out a reserved activity otherwise though it is a defence that the person "did not know, and could not reasonably have been expected to know" that they were committing an offence. It is also an offence to pretend to be authorised (s. 17) An offender can be sentenced on summary conviction to up to six months' imprisonment and a fine of up to £5,000. If convicted on indictment in the Crown Court and offender can be sentenced to up to two years' imprisonment and an unlimited fine. An unauthorised person who purports to exercise a right of audience also commits a contempt of court for which he can be punished.[5]

 

One of the reserved activities is Conducting Litigation and as the LBA is Part of the Pre Action Protocols, this surly is litigation?

 

My application said to set aside and also to Stay of Execution

[Isiris]

Again, following up on the Conduct of Litigation.

 

Conduct of litigation

4 (1) The “conduct of litigation” means—

(a) the issuing of proceedings before any court in England and Wales,

(b) the commencement, prosecution and defence of such proceedings,

and

© the performance of any ancillary functions in relation to such

proceedings (such as entering appearances to actions).

(2) But the “conduct of litigation” does not include any activity within

paragraphs (a) to © of sub-paragraph (1), in relation to any particular court

or in relation to any particular proceedings, if immediately before the

appointed day no restriction was placed on the persons entitled to carry on

that activity.

 

So in 4(1)(b) where they have instructed HCEO and written to them, this is an offence is it not?

[applecart]

To cut a story short, I had a claim raised against me. The claimant used an unlicensed Debt Collection Company, this has been confirmed by the Trading Standards of that area who are dealing with this.

If the Claimant raised the claim and they were duly in the position of 'claimant' i.e the issue is between you and them - then the issue as to whether they used an unauthorised agent to collect the debt is an all together defence.

The claim form was issued on the 12th Septemeber and I sent my AOS and intention to defend and counter claim on the 27th September by first class post.

 

You need to submit a AOS within 14 days of service in order to be qualified to extend the time to 28 days.

On the 4th October, the judgement was entered by default and on the 6th October, my AOS was marked as received. When I telephoned to ask, they said "We are 8 days behind"

 

This will have been caused because the AOS was not received until after the 24th September

The claimants agent then wrote and I informed them I intended to apply for the Judgement to be Set Aside. So they sent in the High Court Sherrif to enforce.

 

Now I have a number of question which I will number and hope people can advise.

 

1. As the LBA was sent by an unlicensed Debt Collector (They knew I knew this and I told them anything they wrote would be ignored) is it valid.

 

The Debt Collector has no 'title to Sue' unless they can show they were duly assigned the claim from the original creditor and they would have to show a copy of the notice that should have been served on you to that effect. Further a copy of the status of their licence can be accessed by visiting the public register on the OFT website - if it does not show that they have a credit licence or if they have got one it needs to show 'debt collecting' - if not, get a copy and use it as party to your evidence - if you can get trading standards to write to you confirming same, this will assist you also.

 

2. They sent in the HCEO deliberately but again, are they allowed to do this as they are neither a solicitor nor a debt collection agency. I have seen letters to the HCEO and they are all from the unlicensed firm.

 

I'm unsure what you mean by 'HCEO'

 

3. I applied for a Set a Side and Stay of Execution but the hearing I have only says Stay of Execution. Will the Set Aside be heard as well?

 

I think you are familiar with the difference here... The stay of execution means the other side cannot take any action, which means the court has an intent to hear your defence. The matter will not be 'set aside' until such time as they hear your defence and can be sure that you can provide grounds upon which the matter should be set a side. If they agree to set aside, then the stay of execution remains in place and the other party get the opportunity to reply to your defence at a hearing

4. Is there a way I can ask for the documents held by the HCEO to be made available to me for court.

 

Again, apologies, but I have no idea what you mean by the abbreviation 'HCEO' - but normally any documents that you wish to rely on - can be requested under 'disclosure' - this is always available to litigants when the hearing is fast track or multi track - if it is 'small claims' - which is what a lot of these firms like to use - you may need to make an application for disclosure - check the CPR rules for 'disclosure'

Regards

 

Hope this Helps : )