British Gas & Power Flush

[Bigmac versus]

Hi Bigmac

 

Many thanks for your input

All quotes I had said not to go for a combi due to the style of my house and purposes it serves. Currently have 17.8kw boiler so thats why one enginner went for the 18KW one. he said (and I have read on some forums) that PF can also uncover pinholes in rads as well as clean out system so may well be detrimental.

 

So as your not getting confused here the PF is something that is only recommended when there are problems with the system, when a NEW BOILER is installed the system should be flushed and cleansed with the appropriate chemicals such as sentinel x100 and x300.

 

In fairness to the guy I think he is trying not to do what he feels is unneccessary work (when I mentioned Magnaclean he said he could fit one but was overkill for a heat only boiler).

 

I DONT agree with this as a heat only boiler in my opinion would be MORE suitable for a magnaclean as it would have more pipework due to the Flow and Return going to the cylinder.

Think I would prefer a 24 kw to make sure its enough for my house. I take it it wouldnt be more inefficient than the 18kw one. Also would the 18 be working its socks off comapred to the 24 in the winter when heating on a lot.

 

The 24 kw boiler would be no less efficient than the 18kw but you would have more plusses than negatives choosing that size, the only downside is the extra cost over the 18kw but with the 24kw it would allow for any further radiators or bigger rads to be fitted, ok if an extension was ever built and wouldn't be found struggling to cover a maximum heat load.

Best advice I can give you.

If you have the time before the renewal then have a chemical desludger added to your existing system for anything up to 4 weeks then drain it out or when the boiler is being renewed whichever is quicker, this will break up any crap in your system and avoid it running through your new installation. Consider a Worcester or Viessmann boiler as they are good boilers and have great back up should you need it.

 

Thanks in advance:)

 

Your welcome

 

George

[ppms]

Looking for advice on existing boiler and BG Powerflush.

Bought london flat a couple of years ago with Halsted combi. Have BG contract and nothing but trouble with boiler, continually failing with hot water heat exchanger blocked.

BG now refusing to replace heat exchanger any more and suggesting powerflush as the solution.

BG have declined to quote for new boiler, saying vent is to light well which they cannot fit.

All seem to say that existing boiler is very basic and we should replace with say WB, will also gain better hot water flow rate.

Existing boiler is sited inside a kitchen cupboard only 300 mm deep.

Any suggestions for new boiler, are any compacts any good or should we go for WB or similar and alter cupboard to suit.

 

Thanks in anticipation

[juliusceasor]

Think I would prefer a 24 kw to make sure its enough for my house. I take it it wouldnt be more inefficient than the 18kw one. Also would the 18 be working its socks off comapred to the 24 in the winter when heating on a lot.

 

The 24 kw boiler would be no less efficient than the 18kw but you would have more plusses than negatives choosing that size, the only downside is the extra cost over the 18kw but with the 24kw it would allow for any further radiators or bigger rads to be fitted, ok if an extension was ever built and wouldn't be found struggling to cover a maximum heat load.

 

If it is a fully modulating burner the 24kW will be no less efficient than the 18kW as the burner will modulate to the demand.

[juliusceasor]

Looking for advice on existing boiler and BG Powerflush.

Bought london flat a couple of years ago with Halsted combi. Have BG contract and nothing but trouble with boiler, continually failing with hot water heat exchanger blocked.

BG now refusing to replace heat exchanger any more and suggesting powerflush as the solution.

BG have declined to quote for new boiler, saying vent is to light well which they cannot fit.

All seem to say that existing boiler is very basic and we should replace with say WB, will also gain better hot water flow rate.

Existing boiler is sited inside a kitchen cupboard only 300 mm deep.

Any suggestions for new boiler, are any compacts any good or should we go for WB or similar and alter cupboard to suit.

 

Thanks in anticipation

 

That's a lot to answer without seeing the install.

London I know suffers from hard water, you will always struggle with the plate heat exchanger clogging. The best thing you could do is fit a water softener for the cold supply to the boiler, and ensure the system water is properly treated.

Power flush will depend again on the system condition.

 

Incidentally it is possible just to flush and descale the plate heat exchanger......

 

BG have declined to quote for new boiler, saying vent is to light well which they cannot fit.

 

Not sure what you mean here is the flue venting from a basement flat to a light well that is now open? Correct flue-ing should over come this, your next problem could be pluming again without seeing the location it's hard to comment.

 

Existing boiler is sited inside a kitchen cupboard only 300 mm deep.

Any suggestions for new boiler, are any compacts any good or should we go for WB or similar and alter cupboard to suit.

 

Draw backs to compacts in my view is serviceability for repair. I prefer Viessmann - Vaillant / WB good choices. Steer clear of low cost or boilers from retail outlets they may be cheap but parts don't tend to be. Pick the boiler and fit the cupboard plus clearances to suit it. The boiler is much more valuable than a cupboard.

Edited May 15, 2009 by juliusceasor
typo

[mmm71]

I have an Ariston boiler. This is in London in a 4 bedroom house - bought the house 3 years ago. teh boiler was installed in 2000. we have had homecare agreement with BG since we moved here. boiler has been having problems from time to time - has parts replaced and continues to work. last week it started making very loud noises - called BG - engineer came drained the large red device at the back & said very black water system will need powerflush at some point but it is fixed for now. after he left i noticed the boiler wasnt working - called BG again - different engr arrived & found a rubber tube at the top had burnt off so replaced it & said it is ok for now. after he left when the hot water was used the boiler started making loud noises again. same engineer coems back & says that 2 valves under the boiler need replacing but the system needs powerflush cost £699. if i dont have it done the boiler will keep getting clogged. he will come back next week to replace valves but says not sure if the system will work as it is clogged with sludge.

 

i am not sure whether to do the powerflush as it will not resolve the cause just the symptom. the sludge seems to have suddenly appeared into the system as no engineer has raised teh issue before and there have been visits at least one every year.

 

if someone can help i will be very grateful. I am trying to get a second opinion next week - any advice re the questions that i should ask etc will be very helpful.

 

Many thanks

[wifeofstan]

Hi Pere

 

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

 

I had a similar experience with British Gas, wanting to charge an extorsionate rate for a power flush.

 

I wasn't even aware they existed, let alone what one was. I got a second opinion from a local plumber. He agreed it was beneficial. He didn't do them but suggested I try a plumber he knew. I did, he charged me less than half BG's fee, and indeed he was right. My system heats up far quicker, radiators are consistently hot, quieter, and when I remove them to decorate, I don't get dirty water everywhere.

 

I would highly recomend the company who did mine.

[vji6697]

Hi, Yet another newbie.

 

Just had BG round for my annual service and they said that there was sludge in the system. However, instead of offering my a powerflush, they said to install Magnaclean for £250.

 

I am a bit surprised at the sludge being there as I had BG do a powerflush in 2002 when the system was just 5 years old. Since 2002, We have changed a few radiators, added 1 new one and replaced the huge potterton boiler with a WB. The last job was the boiler change in 2007 and the plumber used all the right chemicals etc.

 

So. I have 2 questions I'd like feedback on before I give BG a call.

 

1. If they did a Powerflush correctly in 2002, should sludge still be in my system ? given that we have added new stuff but each time it was drained and topped up etc.

 

2. Is the Magnaclean worth it ?

 

Thanks

[MrHandyman]

hi vji6697

 

hope I can answer your questions.

 

1) BG offer a lifetime guarantee on powerflushes because the sludge does come back after a certain point. its different for everyone, i've seen it again after 3 years and it can go right up to 15. The lifetime guarantee did however, come in 2003.

 

2) Magnaclean is only worth it if your system is clean to begin with. Magnaclean stops rubbish from gathering in your system when installed, but what is already there will stay there, and still cause problems.

 

My advice would be to request a free reflush as a gesture of goodwill through the field manager, and tell them you would take the magnaclean if you get this flush for free. Otherwise it's not really worth your while.

[vji6697]

Thanks for the quick response. Will give them a call now, not sure how to get hold of the field manager, so will try the homecare helpdesk first.

 

Once again, thanks.

[MrHandyman]

Go through the call centre, tell them you have a field complaint and advise them to direct it straight to their customer relations department. They send details directly to the field manager or "TSM (Technical Service Manager)" as they are referred to in the call centre, and you will be contacted within a day or 2.

[vji6697]

Thanks MrH

 

Gave them a call and the nice lady said that we should get a free powerflush as they have done it before, but she needs to pass it to the field.

 

fingers crossed

[MrHandyman]

That's good Hope they don't turn round and say that it was initially done a year before the guarantee came in! It's ultimately the Field's call anyway, so moan if they say no and they'll change their mind. Hopefully that's you all sorted.

[slick132]

Hi Vji,

 

I wonder if BG will refuse to help, saying the system should have been thoroughly flushed when the new boiler was installed.

 

Thats v handy info from Mr Handyman about the Lifetime Guarantee on PF's.

[MrHandyman]

Quite possibly slick, but irrespective of whether they flushed it or not at install, as long as vji has kept a homecare throughout the years, I don't think they have a leg to stand on as change of system is not specified in the homecare, or powerflush terms and conditions.

[vji6697]

Thats the same as the lady at the leicester call centre told me. As I have kept the homecare since then, and had regular services, they should do this for free. Not heard from the Field office yet, but she did say it could be 48 hours, so should get a call either tomorrow or Monday. Will keep you posted.

[vji6697]

I said I'd give an update....

 

I got a call on Friday saying that my query had been received and they will soon be in touch.

 

No call on Monday, so I called them yesterday and was told that it is with the local field manager. A comment was made (somewhere) that I had been chasing this up.

 

Still no call today, 8 days after my initial query.

[slick132]

Keep chasing them at the Managerial level.

 

[MrHandyman]

what part of the country are you in vji ?

[vji6697]

Hi,

 

I am in Preston. Have chased up again today - still no call back. I am getting more and more frustrated and angry now with the lack of comms

[vji6697]

Just been on the phone to them again. "messages have been left with the service manager"

 

I know it's not the helpdesks fault but I asked them to make a note to say that if I get no call back in 24 hours then I will cancel all my services with them. AAARGGGHHHH How hard can it be to pick up the phone and call me ?

 

I can't even get a number off the helpdesk to call them myself,

[MrHandyman]

When you call back in ask to be put through to the stockport call centre, as they cover preston. when you do that you can then ask them to phone the field manager on your behalf and ask when he is gonna deal with your complaint. Local service centres always have a list of field managers and direct contact numbers. If they cant help you, ask for an office manager instead.

[vji6697]

Thanks.

 

Ironic that initially I had a query and now due to the lack of comms it has morphed into a complaint.

 

I have also submitted something via the online complaints form, so will see what drops out of that.

 

Thanks for your help

[vji6697]

Bit of an update. After no call back this morning, I rang the 0800 number again and asked to be put thru to the stockport call centre.

 

Apparently, I was already there, so that was good.

 

The lady then read thru my notes and said. Well, the powerflush guarantee came into effect in 2005 so you would have to pay for it again. and that "anyone who has been here a while would have told you that" also that "its the hard water composition which makes the sludge come back".

 

No apology for no call backs at all. She then said she would ask "Mike" her line manager to ask the Field Manager to call me "but, they will just tell you the same thing".

 

No idea if she was fobbing me off or not. MrH said ealier that the guarantee came into effect in 2003, she was adamant that its 2005. I am not sure what the Field Manager will say.

[slick132]

While all this is being done by phone, there's nothing in writing to back you up.

 

Get the relevant address and write to them by Rec'd Del'y. Use the info in post #171 to get the address you need.

 

And don't let call centre staff fob you off.

[vji6697]

Further update. Got a call back from the Field Manager who apologised for the delay in contacting me, but he was on holiday and just got back today. He put his hands up re their fault for not informing me of this sooner.

 

He was very good and helpful, explained that some inhibitors do make the water black (Fernox?) but will send a man round to check and if he feels there is iron in the water, he will approve a powerflush. I said thank you and that once we understand if there is a requirement for the powerflush, we can talk about the magnaclean.

 

So from despair with the call centre to contentment as soon as I got the chance to speak to the man in the know.