British Gas & Power Flush

[slick132]

Looking better.

 

[ragingcat55]

Hi metrolandman im glad this thread has helped you in some way and may I offer you some further advice on your problem.

 

What you have is an open vented system which has a feed pipe from the F & E tank which drops down and is teed into the heating system and a vent pipe which is also teed into the heating and rises to the F & E tank.

 

THE SECTION OF PIPEWORK BETWEEN THESE CONNECTIONS IS CHOKED and will need cleaned or renewed, it is likely to be NO MORE than 150mm in length.

 

A good plumber should be able to diagnose this and take no more than 2 hours maximum to renew or clean it, i would do this and have your system added with an inhibitor/cleanser.

 

 

I have the same problem as metrolandman CH system. An engineer came and replaced the pump and then said I needed the power flush as my boiler was cutting off after2 to 3 minutes and no hot water or Heating. So I agreed and another engineer from the same company came to do power flush but told he cannot do it as I have old HW Cylinder and said that I needed to replace the cylinder at a cost of £950+Vat before he can do powerflush as it is old and may leak. I have a Potterton Profile 80e boiler and 12 RADS. It is an open vented system like yours.

 

How was metrolandman problem sorted out?

 

I have also been told on DIYnot forum that there may be blockage between the cold feed and vent!

 

How do you clear the blockage?

[slick132]

Hi RagingCat and welcome to CAG.

 

If you get no response here within a couple of days, post again and I'll see if we can get you the advice you seek.

 

[Bigmac versus]

Hi ragingcat55, this sort of job should be left to a gas fitter, however its usually fairly straight forward and would involve draining the system down and isolating the F&E tank then cutting out the section of pipework that is choked (99% of times its where it tees in to the heating from the F&E tank) A good gas fitter will trace this out quickly and repipe the section and at a fraction of the costs a powerflush would be. To be fair this dosent treat the full system as a powerflush would, but it would allow an inhibitor to be circulated through the system.

[ragingcat55]

How much this job should cost?

[Thamesplumber]

Hi

 

Over time radiators and pipes become clogged up with rust and sludge, which if left unchecked can seriously affect the efficiency of your central heating system. Having to replace your pipe work because of blockages and corrosion can be one of the most disruptive and expensive plumbing repairs faced by home owners. So avoiding this will save you a lot of money, and the best way to do this is Power Flush them.

[ragingcat55]

By the way after all the 3 plumbers visits and various expensive repair suggestions, I followed suggestion from Mike- Tech guy at Sentinel and put MX400 on 30/9/09. Within few days all RADs started getting hot and now I have also put the pump aon number 2 position and it is not pumping over anymore! I am now going to drain the system and put MX100 for protection

 

So all those plumbers suggesting a Powerflush and plus repalcing the Hot water Cilinder were just trying on to rip me off. Total cost woul dhave been over £1600

[slick132]

Hi Thamesplumber and welcome to CAG.

 

Yup, power flushing certainly does have an important role to play in the long term smooth running of a system. However, I think BG are wrong to incentivise their engineers with bonus payments for PF work and boiler replacement jobs.

 

RagingCat - Well done but DO remember to drain down thoroughly, including each individual rad, and put in the inhibitor.

[Bigmac versus]

Nice one, make sure you give it a good flush out.

[Desperate Daniella]

What is MX400, where do you put it, and what is the inhibitor?

[slick132]

Hi DD,

 

Home | Sentinel Performance Solutions

 

MX400 is one of several additives that can be used in your CH system, to break down accumulated sludge deposits in the rads and elsewhere in the CHS.

 

When it has been left in the CHS for the recommended time, the system must be fully drained down, flushed through with clean water thoroughly until the draining water is clear and then the system is refilled.

 

That is when an inhibitor is added to help KEEP the system clean.

 

Draining down the system fully, including each rad, should be done by an engineer or DIY if you know exactly what you're up to.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Slick,

 

Thank you, and no, I'm not going to try it.

 

DDxx

[vji6697]

Update on my situation.

 

Chap came and tested the water, showed me that there was not a great deal of iron in the water and so a powerflush was not required and that running it through the industrial magnaclean for a few hours will do the job...

 

Which it did. Had a home magnaclean installed and they have a happy customer again.

 

Engineer must have spent over 6 hours and was very good, explaining stuff clearly when i quizzed him on what he was doing etc.

[slick132]

Hi vji,

 

Sounds like a result !!

 

Have a warm winter.

[Thamesplumber]

Hi Ragincat55

 

Yes it's true maybe you would pay 1600 with british gas, I am sure every other small companies would charge you quarter of the price of that.

[Bigmac versus]

Well cylinders arent cheap these days so saying £300 max for that and pipework n chemicals and even allowing for two days labour, total around £600 to £700. Makes you understand why so many people feel BG are ripping customers off, mind you they do have massive overheads not including the commission for whoever got the job.

[Thamesplumber]

Hi slick132

 

Thanks for your welcome, Wot??? they pay bonuses for their engineers???? for PF radiators???? Hm small companies would never do that,at least not us.

[slick132]

Yup.

 

I understand BG engineers get a bonus when a customer agrees to have them install a new boiler or a power flush of their system.

 

So there's an incentive for eng'rs to recommend work that may not need doing, which sounds very wrong to me.

[Thamesplumber]

Exactly and top of that they will charge you twice as much as any other reliable plumbing company, hm

[MrHandyman]

As a few of you know, I work for British Gas.

 

I don't think it's fair to single out BG as more expensive than independent companies for certain work to be done. A Ford garage would be more expensive to service a car than an independent mechanic. It is standard across all industry for larger companies to be that bit more expensive, and obviously the customer has the choice to accept or go elsewhere for the work at a lower price.

 

With regards to powerflush commission for engineers however, it does happen. This practice is wrong and should never have been introduced in the first place. It has been put to senior managers to remove this practice, and i sincerely hope that they do so soon.

[slick132]

Hi MrH and thanks for your input.

 

I too hope that the commission incentives are removed soon.

 

It would surely be a good move for BG's customers, especially when they are left with no CHS cover if they fail to have PF work done when told.

 

[MrHandyman]

Definitely Slick. From a manager's point of view, my day would be a lot easier without powerflush related complaints.

 

I do understand the necessity for flushing, as sludged and scaled systems would cost the business a lot of money in replacement valves and pumps on a regular basis, but some engineers do quote it to customers as a fix for all problems.

 

From what i've seen, the materials needed to do the work cost BG around about £40 per job, and the engineers make roughly £13 per hour. It is quoted as an 8 hour job. So, say the cost to BG is around £140 - £ 150 maximum. BG could half the average powerflush charge for existing customers, to say £300 instead of £600+, still make a good profit and keep customers happy.

[slick132]

Hi Mr H,

 

Maybe that's one to put in the suggestions box.

 

[NotMyFault]

A personal gripe of mine... The guys/girls that BG send round are not 'engineers'. They are technicians! Engineers are the people who design stuff, do the required maths / science, work in R&D etc.

 

It's only in the UK that every tom, dick, and harry are allowed to call themselves engineers!

 

[NotMyFault]

My mum has a BG HomeCare contract and recently had to call them out as the boiler kept tripping and we had to keep hitting the reset. Again he was pushing the powerflush and the 150 quid filter each time he came. Came once to look and then had to come back another day with the required part. It was a thermistor of some kind.

 

Anyway,one of the odd things was that the chap commented that my mum was watching him too closely and that it felt like she was sitting on his shoulders! WTF? I thought that they should be used to their customers being around as they work. My mum went to a different room until he was about done! The only reason I could think of for him not wanting somebody to see what he was doing it that he was up to no good! Dodgy or what?

 

In addition, he mentioned something about having to pay next time he was called out (the package we got says that there would be no call out charges!). My mum couldn't remember what he said exactly and the writing on the form he left was incomprehensible. It definitely does not make mention of any charges.

 

The boiler is now still tripping the reset button. So whatever he did it did not work.

 

I won't be renewing the BG contract when the 12 months is up! My money can be better spent elsewhere.