1st Credit & LCS Battle - court papers received - help

[newman]

Andy a couple more questions relating to the Draft Order - (in red)

 

Draft Order

Unless by 4pm on (date)what would be the correct date to put here baring in mind that the DJ will probably take a few weeks to look at this is there a better way to word this the claimant complies with requests made by the defendant on 04-07-2011- and 21-07-2011 pursuant to CPR 18 and on 29-07-2011 pursuant to CPR 31:14 to clarify information pertaining to the defendants request and provide copies of the following documentation:-

1.Copies of the Agreement and any documents/terms and conditions referred to within, which the claimant seeks to rely upon.

2. A copy of the Default Notice and Proof of Postage

3. A current full statement of account showing how the balance claimed is calculated

4. The Termination Notice

5. The Notice of Assignment, with proof of service of the same compliant with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

6. Copies of any statement or other document relied upon

 

The claim shall stand struck out and the defendant shall be at liberty to enter judgment against the claimant without further order of the court and [ii] the Claimant shall pay the Defendant his/her costs of this case to be assessed on the standard basis and pursuant to the provisions of The Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act 1975.]

 

In the event that the Claimant shall comply with this order

1.The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file his defence

2.The Claimant shall pay the Defendant the costs of this application

[assessed in the sum of £xxx - What is the correct sum to put in here?

[AndyOrch]

Hi Newman

 

Im not really sure what your Sharon is on about to be quite honest.In civil proceedings you should really copy the claimant in re the application

(file and serve) and with regards to Summary Judgment well as long as you have acknowledged service there is nothing stopping them either to make application, irrespective of any barring.

 

With regards to your last post just put 7 days in advance the Court will amend if needs be due to court process times.And the assessed costs put £140

 

Regards

 

Andy

[newman]

Hi Newman

 

Im not really sure what your Sharon is on about to be quite honest.In civil proceedings you should really copy the claimant in re the application

(file and serve) and with regards to Summary Judgment well as long as you have acknowledged service there is nothing stopping them either to make application, irrespective of any barring.

 

With regards to your last post just put 7 days in advance the Court will amend if needs be due to court process times.And the assessed costs put £140

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Ahhhhhhhh uuurrrmmm well I have no idea what the heck she was on about then but I quoted her word for word. I wonder why she said there was no need to let the other side know that I was putting in the N244??????????? thats a bit worrying if thats the advice they are giving

 

Ok your point is taken - so what do I do then just post them a copy of the completed N244 form RD???? And what would happen if I didnt copy them in on?????

[AndyOrch]

Ahhhhhhhh uuurrrmmm well I have no idea what the heck she was on about then but I quoted her word for word. I wonder why she said there was no need to let the other side know that I was putting in the N244??????????? thats a bit worrying if thats the advice they are giving

 

Ok your point is taken - so what do I do then just post them a copy of the completed N244 form RD???? And what would happen if I didnt copy them in on?????

 

Well you send theirs second class next Friday that way you have been civil. Newman you have to understand litigation is 95% mind games 5% law.

Dont take everything as black and white.

 

Andy

[newman]

Well you send theirs second class next Friday that way you have been civil. Newman you have to understand litigation is 95% mind games 5% law.

Dont take everything as black and white.

 

Andy

 

Oh I love that - send the letter the day after the deadline - very naughty but I like it and 2nd class too:)

[AndyOrch]

Catching on now Newman?

 

Andy

[newman]

Well I am like a classic lamborghini Uracco P250 - I dont run as well or as fast as I used to but I do get there eventually - albeit I keep going wrong and need to help of experts to get me there but I get there eventually :)

 

I think I am getting the hang oif all of this now -

[newman]

OK well the N244 is now all done printed off and ready to be faxed to them tomorrow - I am still smiling at sending a copy of this next Friday :)

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Well done my friend, and good luck!!!

and great thanks to some'' real experts''

who got you through to this stage.

[newman]

Well done my friend, and good luck!!!

and great thanks to some'' real experts''

who got you through to this stage.

 

I couldnt agree more Brig - huge thanks to you and everyone else

 

Well lets see what the outcome of this is as it is out of my hands once this is at the court.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Well done Newman

I'm a bit tied up as I've got a lot going on in my own back yard at the moment, but I'm still keeping a beady eye on you

 

Elsa x

[newman]

Well done Newman

I'm a bit tied up as I've got a lot going on in my own back yard at the moment, but I'm still keeping a beady eye on you

 

Elsa x

 

Thanks Elsa

Well at the moment there is not a lot to do except see what comes back from the DJ.

 

In the meantime I can see a few weeks of in depth scouring of this forum for all the appropriate threads on default notices, non compliance with CPR requests, No original CCA's etc etc as I may just have to put a defence together.

 

There is a huge amount of detail on here for all apsects realting to this issue and I know I am not treading a path that hasnt been trodden before and it is very reassuring to know there are others who have been there and back and can guide those of us that havent been down this road before.

[newman]

I did promise to find the thread that gives a very detailed defence in relation to when a dodgy default notice was issued and I have all of this ready to include in my defence statement - it can be found HERE

 

Also if anyone else has any other threads that they would recommend I have a look at please post them all up so that I can have a look at them all.

 

OK now its research research research!!!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Keep at it, you have done well so far.

 

Brig:-D

[newman]

Hi Newman

 

Im not really sure what your Sharon is on about to be quite honest.In civil proceedings you should really copy the claimant in re the application

(file and serve) and with regards to Summary Judgment well as long as you have acknowledged service there is nothing stopping them either to make application, irrespective of any barring.

 

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy

Just an addition to your comment. I faxed off the N244 & Draft order and then called the NCCBC in order to make the £45 payment (what a rip off) and spoke to another very helpful young lady called Lauren.

 

I asked her to have a look at the form and the draft order to make sure Ihadnt missed anything off or filled anything in incorrectly. That was all fine so I asked her about what the procedure was from this point on and she confirmed exactly what Sharon said last time. I asked her about the need to write to the claimants or their solicitors and inform them that the N244 form had been submitted she said "There is no requirement for you to have to write to the claimant or their solicitors unless you really want to. I then asked her how long it would take for a District Judge to look at this and it could be 3 to 4 weeks.

 

I then asked her again about the need to write to LCS (I made a joke about being reprimanded if I didnt let them know!) and she did her best to give me as extensive reassurance as she could that it really was not essential at all to have to write to them but if it made me feel better then go ahead and write to them

 

I also asked her if the court would inform LCS that the N244 had been submitted to which she replied "oh no we dont call claimants or their solicitors; its up to them to call us if they want to find out what is happening"!

 

So we now have 2 members of the court staff that have said the same thing which is actually good to know they are singing off the same hymn sheet.

 

I will do what you suggested and send LCS a 2nd class letter next Friday which should reach them by the time the DJ has come to a decision:)

 

In all seriousness though with what I have submitted is there any chance that the DJ will not grant the draft order for the CPR requests and also the extension of time under CPR 15:5?

[AndyOrch]

Newman

 

The court will have to inform them of the application otherwise how will they know how/when to respond? The Claimants or their Sols are not psychic.

How would you feel as a defendant if they made application for SJ and they or the court didn't copy you in, to allow time for you to oppose it.?

These are civil proceedings and the CPR was wrote to direct parties on how to conduct matters during litigation.Don't forget every application once processed

has to be sent to a party to enable them to act and normally that period is 14/7 days to respond.

 

There is no reason for the DJ not to grant the application, its process.He either instructs them to disclose and allow an extension or he gives them an unless order that if they don't by xxx xxx xxx their claim will be struck out.

 

Anything else you want to test me on?

 

Andy

[newman]

Hi Andy

 

I wasnt trying to test you. Just passing on what I was told thats all! please dont shoot the messsenger!!

 

just to clarify, what the lovely Lauren did say was that they wouldnt contact LCS or 1st Credit right now about the fact that I had submitted the N244, but that when the DJ has given his/her directions that would be the point that both the claimant and I would receive notification of their decision.

 

I completely take your point that they are not mind readers.

Well I reckon I have about a month now for the DJ to have a look at this and then a further 2 weeks to see what LCS/1st Crappy will do with all of this.

 

I do have some questions in relation to the part in the N244 part 3 that states "Should the claimant fail to respond to the defendants draft directions that the claim shall stand struck out without further order and costs to be considered and summarily assessed"

 

1) - what does it actually mean in practical terms for the claim to be struck out without further order?

2) - Is there anything at that point that a defendant needs to do or is it all over?.

3)- Also in relation to the costs to be considered and summarily assessed bit - how are the costs worked out?

4)- how do I assess how much to counter claim for as well?

[AndyOrch]

Hi Newman

 

Hi Andy

 

I wasnt trying to test you. Just passing on what I was told thats all! please dont shoot the messsenger!! Dont believe everything Court staff tell you makes no difference to me what they state I'm just telling the procedure as i understand it and the logical procedure.

 

just to clarify, what the lovely Lauren did say was that they wouldn't contact LCS or 1st Credit right now about the fact that I had submitted the N244, but that when the DJ has given his/her directions that would be the point that both the claimant and I would receive notification of their decision. Well thats not what you stated in your post 451 of course they have to inform them.

 

I completely take your point that they are not mind readers.

Well I reckon I have about a month now for the DJ to have a look at this and then a further 2 weeks to see what LCS/1st Crappy will do with all of this.How can you be sure because the Northampton said? Keep your eye on the original defence date and check if the extension as been placed.

 

I do have some questions in relation to the part in the N244 part 3 that states "Should the claimant fail to respond to the defendants draft directions that the claim shall stand struck out without further order and costs to be considered and summarily assessed"

 

1) - what does it actually mean in practical terms for the claim to be struck out without further order? What you have requested struck out, dismissed, vamoosed.

2) - Is there anything at that point that a defendant needs to do or is it all over?. All over is no more.

3)- Also in relation to the costs to be considered and summarily assessed bit - how are the costs worked out? You can informally request wasted costs from the Claimant if they ignore you can apply for a wasted costs certificate which will be assessed by the costs manager and the claimant then bound reimburse your LiP costs that is if you are successful.

4)- how do I assess how much to counter claim for as well?

What /why would you intend to counterclaim I think you would be wiser to concentrate on a defence first.

 

Newman I will give you one more piece of advice to consider on this journey, never take the word of Court call center staff they are not qualified to express legal opinion/advice only to suggest and pacify to a certain extent.Your application will be put before the DJ on the day at Northampton to consider its merits, whether it takes 6 weeks as advised by the call centre or not we will see, as I have stated he may give a general order that they disclose by xx xx and you to submit a fully particularised defence.There a numerous permutations he may direct, who knows.

 

 

In the meantime I wish you all the best with this matter.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Apologies for bold, colours not working

[newman]

Morning Andy

Thanks for that

 

OK to answer your questions -

1) - what does it actually mean in practical terms for the claim to be struck out without further order? What you have requested struck out, dismissed, vamoosed.

I submitted what you suggested word for word in post http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?276583-1st-Credit-amp-LCS-Battle-court-papers-received-help&p=3517152&viewfull=1#post3517152"]#432

 

Stuck out in short

 

What /why would you intend to counterclaim I think you would be wiser to concentrate on a defence first.

 

I agree about concentrating on the defence but I do want to understand the process of being able to counterclaim because of the way this has been handled from the start. I want to win of course but I also want this bunch to be accountable for the way they have handled this from the start - both they and Citi have acted shockingly not to mention unlawfully and have ignored OFT guidelines etc. I want to do what I can to ensure that they both stand to account for the way they have acted. The OFT and TS already have the report I prepared and I am going to report them to other bodies as suggested in previous posts in this thread.

 

It takes a lot to get me angry ANdy but I am mad as hell at this bunch and they have started a fight by instigating court action so I intend to win it anyway I can

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Newman as Andy has said concentrate on

the defence don't see your self as a claimant yet

it will cloud the issues that you need to get sorted.

Brig.

[AndyOrch]

I agree about concentrating on the defence but I do want to understand the process of being able to counterclaim because of the way this has been handled from the start. I want to win of course but I also want this bunch to be accountable for the way they have handled this from the start - both they and Citi have acted shockingly not to mention unlawfully and have ignored OFT guidelines etc. I want to do what I can to ensure that they both stand to account for the way they have acted. The OFT and TS already have the report I prepared and I am going to report them to other bodies as suggested in previous posts in this thread.

 

It takes a lot to get me angry ANdy but I am mad as hell at this bunch and they have started a fight by instigating court action so I intend to win it anyway I can

 

I wouldn't take it so personal Newman 100s on here are treated the same, thats what Creditors do when the good times end. A counterclaim in civil proceedings

would at most be a claim against an incorrect amount claimed and you would try to offset the balance, not the manner to which you feel you have been treated.

Most counterclaims are entered with the defence and are free at that stage, this is known as a Part 20 claim:-

 

COUNTERCLAIMS AND OTHER ADDITIONAL CLAIMS

 

Regards

Andy

Edited August 10, 2011 by Andyorch

[newman]

Brig & Andy I know you are both right - I shouldnt get too angry about this but its not easy when my loved ones and I have had to deal with this C##P for the last few years.

 

Well a couple of hours of lifting some heavy weights and my daily 1 mile swim this morning helped my frustration thats for sure:)

 

ANDY - I wouldn't take it so personal Newman 100s on here are treated the same, thats what Creditors do when the good times end. A counterclaim in civil proceedings

would at most be a claim against an incorrect amount claimed and you would try to offset the balance, not the manner to which you feel you have been treated.

Most counterclaims are entered with the defence and are free at that stage, this is known as a Part 20 claim:-

 

Cheers for that Andy - I ask these questions now so that I can study up on what may be coming so that I can be as prepared as possible rather than panciking at the last mimnute.

 

Huge thanks guys - keep me on the straight an narrow!!!!

 

OK Protein & Salad time :)

[Happyhippy1959]

Best of luck newman,,, I'm routing for you mate...

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Hippy, Hows things

[Happyhippy1959]

Not too bad Brig,,,, still umming and hahing on whether to sell house / let it go ..... such a wrench mate really busy weekend work period at hospital lots of overdoses and getting worse....