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1st Credit & LCS Battle - court papers received - help


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Hi Debt 4 get

 

I have been reading this thread with great interest and would appreciate some advice relating to 1st Credit & LCS. I have been involved in a very similar situation to that of Nikki 1982 and to whom you have given some excellent advice.

 

I have been dealing with 1st credit since June 2007 when Citi Financial assigned my account to them. I followed all of the advice given on this forum and asked ist credit for a true copy of the original CCA and a true copy of the deed of assignment and also informing them of a complaint I had made to the FO.

 

Following my request for the above I never heard anything for 33 months and then in March this year they sent me the same bundle of information that they sent Nikki 1982. Despite numerous letters since then they are adamant that they have fulfilled their obligations and I have just received a second letter from LCS dated 1-09-2010 demanding full payment within 7 days of the date of the letter (today is the 9th Sept and therefore now one day overdue from the deadline date!) or they may commence court proceedings.

 

I intend to spend tomorrow going through the whole file to produce a summary of events and will post details of events in this thread for advice as to how to proceed next but my question really is relating to how much or how little detail to post on here so that I dont make an incorrect post.

 

Since 2007, there have been numerous letters sent from me to 1st credit and numerous replies received from them.

 

Is it sufficient for me to give a summary of events and to summarise the content of letters sent and received or do I need to post a copy of the actual letters - this would be a very long post as over three years have passed and some of my letters are quite long and detailed.

 

Thanks in advance.

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no need to post all the letters, have you sent account in dispute? if not do so asap.....a summary is absolutely fine...i take it their latest position is we have supplied everything and pay up....if it is and you have sent account in dispute their is not much more to say to them..you have made your position clear..it is up to them to make the next move...though i think you may be waiting a long time for them to do so...

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hi debt4get

Firstly big thanks for replying so quickly

 

I put the account officially into dispute back in 2007 and I also made a complaint to the FOC, however, they are now saying that as they have provided me with everything that the account is no longer in dispute.

 

I am about to start the task of summarising all the correspondence - it makes interesting reading.

 

I guess I just need to know what letter I now need to send them as they have been supplied with all of the letters that people are advised to send to CCC's & debt collectors from this forum and they are like a dog with a bone!

 

My main contention with them is that as they took over 33 months to respond to me that they have not abided by the rules and I have asserted that as such they committed an offence and I have laid out in detail the dates that the offence took place. all requestes for my original CCA were done by recorded delivery and we have proof of receipt and signatures.

 

I have also asked them to confirm, that they did indeed not abide by the legal timeframes which they have admitted to and as you will see when I post the summary I have asked for total write off of balance and a number of other things. I have also at numerous poitns stressed that I do not acknowledge any debt to them.

 

I also did try to use the line that as they had not responded in the allowed timescales that the debt was unenforceable and they have very condesendingly come back to me with the line that it definately is enforceable because they have provided me with a load of photocopied documents with my name on but no signature and they are adamanat that they dont need to provide an actual copy of my original agreement.

 

I am not an expert by any means but I have been fighting all of my creditors over the last few years when we got into some financial difficulty and I now just need to know what to do to finally get these people off my back for good.

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You really need to start your own thread as things may get confused :)

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

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I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

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No worries...I've messaged the site team to help you with it :)

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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Ok here is your own thread.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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I started to post about my situation with 1C & LCs on this thread consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?220638-1st-Credit&p=3121439#post3121439[/url] and was advised by Baby bear 39 to start a new one to avoid confusion so here goes

 

Re: 1st Credit

Hi Debt 4 get

 

I have been reading this thread with great interest and would appreciate some advice relating to 1st credit & LCS. I have been involved in a very similar situation to that of Nikki 1982 and to whom you have given some excellent advice.

 

I have been dealing with 1st credit since June 2007 when Citi Financial assigned my account to them. I followed all of the advice given on this forum and asked ist credit for a true copy of the original CCA and a true copy of the deed of assignment and also informing them of a complaint I had made to the FO.

 

Following my request for the above I never heard anything for 33 months and then in March this year they sent me the same bundle of information that they sent Nikki 1982. Despite numerous letters since then they are adamant that they have fulfilled their obligations and I have just received a second letter from LCS dated 1-09-2010 demanding full payment within 7 days of the date of the letter (today is the 9th Sept and therefore now one day overdue from the deadline date!) or they may commence court proceedings.

 

I intend to spend tomorrow going through the whole file to produce a summary of events and will post details of events in this thread for advice as to how to proceed next but my question really is relating to how much or how little detail to post on here so that I dont make an incorrect post.

 

Since 2007, there have been numerous letters sent from me to 1st credit and numerous replies received from them.

 

Is it sufficient for me to give a summary of events and to summarise the content of letters sent and received or do I need to post a copy of the actual letters - this would be a very long post as over three years have passed and some of my letters are quite long and detailed.

 

Thanks in advance.

-0-0-0

debt4get

Re: 1st Credit

no need to post all the letters, have you sent account in dispute? if not do so asap.....a summary is absolutely fine...i take it their latest position is we have supplied everything and pay up....if it is and you have sent account in dispute their is not much more to say to them..you have made your position clear..it is up to them to make the next move...though i think you may be waiting a long time for them to do so... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Today 10:47 #64 newman

 

Re: 1st Credit

hi debt4get

Firstly big thanks for replying so quickly

 

I put the account officially into dispute back in 2007 and I also made a complaint to the FOC, however, they are now saying that as they have provided me with everything that the account is no longer in dispute.

 

I am about to start the task of summarising all the correspondence - it makes interesting reading.

 

I guess I just need to know what letter I now need to send them as they have been supplied with all of the letters that people are advised to send to CCC's & debt collectors from this forum and they are like a dog with a bone!

 

My main contention with them is that as they took over 33 months to respond to me that they have not abided by the rules and I have asserted that as such they committed an offence and I have laid out in detail the dates that the offence took place. all requestes for my original CCA were done by recorded delivery and we have proof of receipt and signatures.

 

I have also asked them to confirm, that they did indeed not abide by the legal timeframes which they have admitted to and as you will see when I post the summary I have asked for total write off of balance and a number of other things. I have also at numerous poitns stressed that I do not acknowledge any debt to them.

 

I also did try to use the line that as they had not responded in the allowed timescales that the debt was unenforceable and they have very condesendingly come back to me with the line that it definately is enforceable because they have provided me with a load of photocopied documents with my name on but no signature and they are adamanat that they dont need to provide an actual copy of my original agreement.

 

I am not an expert by any means but I have been fighting all of my creditors over the last few years when we got into some financial difficulty and I now just need to know what to do to finally get these people off my back for good.

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No worries, this one is good to go MARTIN has created it for your and moved the relevant posts :)

 

Our site team are lovely, clever people but the site team tea room is in a bit of a mess I've told :p

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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Well here is is - its taken a few hours to summarise all communication between City Financial, 1st Credit and myself.

 

I know there is a lot of info here but a good cup of coffee and 10 mins should sort it out!

 

I basically want to know now what I should do now as my next step - LCS have got involved and whilst I appreciate it may be mary on the desk next door the fred in 1st C it is still a bit worrying.

 

Huge thanks in advance.

 

23-10-06

We wrote to Citi Financial informing them of financial difficulties we was having requesting interest to be frozen on the account and offering them £3 per month. We also enclosed a full financial statement showing all income and expenditure and also showing all of our other creditors and what we were able to pay proportionally each month.

 

28-10-06

Letter received from CF accepting our proposals and payment plan began.

 

10-11-06

Letter telling me I was one of their best customers and informing me that they had increased my credit limit to £15,000!!

 

14-11-06

Letter from CF asking me to complete their own income and expenditure form. New Balance of £6823.12 due to interest being added.

 

18-01-07

We wrote to head of collections informing them that I could increase my payment to £5 per month as we had sold one of our cars and enclosing an up to date financial statement. Asked for acknowledgement of our letter – never came.

 

23-03-07

We wrote to same person informing them we could now increase payments to £10 per month. We also informed him that we had registered with the CCCS and enclosed copies of their communication. Asked for acknowledgement of our letter – never came.

 

11-06-07

Letter from CF Notice of Assignment Current Balance £6,781.12 notifying me that the balance of my account had been assigned to 1st Credit

 

13-06-07

Called the FO and registered a formal complaint

 

18-06-07

Letter received from the FO confirming they had written to CF e my complaint and giving me the contact details of the Service Qualtiy Director.

 

18-06-07

We wrote to CF’s Service Quality Director Ms Singh registering a formal complaint against CF and asking for a response as a matter of urgency.

 

We informed them that we had received the Notice of Assignment and that we had spoken to 1st Credit who informed us that the debt had been sold to them and a default had been registered on my credit file.

 

I informed then that I had called and spoken to a manager Mr David Fell on 16-06-07 who admitted that he had no record on the file of any of the previous letters that had been sent out to me from CF informing me that a default was going to be registered.

 

I also confirmed that I had a written agreement with CF to make reduced payments and also confirming that I had written on a number of occasions to keep them up to date with our circumstances as well as enclosing up to date financial overviews on CCS headed paper. I also indicated that I had written in March to increase the payments and that as they had been accepting my payments and hadn’t given any indication to the contrary I assumed there were no problems. I did point out that I thought that it might have been prudent for them to inform me if they were no longer happy with an arrangement that they had previously agreed to.

 

I also confirmed that I had been in touch with the CCCS and the FO and had raised a complaint against them. The FO had written to them requesting that the matter be investigated.

 

I requested a full explanation and that with immediate effect the default be removed from my credit file.

 

Finally I stated that I did not wish to receive any phone calls and that all correspondence be carried out in writing.

 

18-06-07

Letter received from Joe Simms @ 1st Credit introducing themselves and informing us that the full balance was due immediately. Also informing us not to make any further payments to CF.

 

19-06-07

We called and spoke to Mr Simms and then faxed to Mr Simms the letter that we had sent to CF on the 18-06-07 and also asking him if he could note and also pass on to CF that despite asking for confirmation and acknowledgement of our letters to them they had never complied with our requests except on 2 occasions.

 

20-06-07

We wrote to Mr Simms 1st C informing him that I was officially disputing the default that had been registered by CF.

 

I also informed him that as my account was in dispute I asked for the correct procedure with respect to maintaining the payments of £10 a month.

 

I also asked him to confirm that all payments will reduce the total balance and that interest would be frozen.

 

I also gave him the CCCS client ref no

 

I asked for written acknowledgement of receipt of my letter.

 

20-06-07

Phone call from Mr Simms leaving a message on my answer phone

 

21-06-07

Letter from 1st C admin Dept confirming I had raised a dispute / query and that they would contact their client and adivse them of my comments and that they would reply in due course and that this process may take one month.

 

They also stated that unless I was disputing the full balance that I must contact them to discuss payment that I accept is due and payable and to provide them with a phone number so that they could deal with the matter quickly and efficiently.

 

22-06-07

I wrote to mr Simms recorded delivery informing him that as my account with CF was officially in dispute with the FO, I had sought further professional advice and legal advice from the CCCS and a solicitor and that I was advised that if 1st C attempted to recover a debt that is in dispute that this would be in contravention with the OFT guidelines.

 

I then confirmed that as my account was officially in dispute that I did not acknowledge any debt to 1st C and I further requested that before I corresponded any further with them that they supply me with

 

1) a true copy of the original CCA that he referred to in his letter. I stated that I was aware that this was my right under their obligation to supply a copy of the executed agreement under s78 (1) of the CCA 1974 (s77(1) for fixed sum credit)I also added that their obligation extends to providing a statement of account. I enclosed a postal order for £1 and confirmed the PO number.

 

2) I also asked for a true copy of the signed deed of assignment.

 

I added the paragraphs stating that they ere obliged to provide these documents whether they were the original creditor or not. I also informed them that I had been advised that non compliance with my request was a criminal offence under the above act and would result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

I also made note that in his letter to me he stated that more formal recovery proceeding may be taken against me. I wrote that as he was aware that a credit agreement that was not properly documented and signed by the customer was totally unenforceable under the CCA and that was a complete defence if a court claim was issued.

 

I then confirmed the FO ref No.

 

22-06-07

Letter received from CF office of the Chief Executive confirming they would be looking into my “query” and enclosing a copy of their complaints procedure should I wish to complain to the FLA.

 

25-06-07

I wrote to 1st credit admin Dept following their letter dated 21-06-07 thanking them for confirming they would contact me with the response from CF.

 

I also disputed the total amount of the debt they said I owed as the figure they quoted differed from the figure on my last statement and also taking into account payments I had made to CF. I asked them to ask CF for full payment details.

 

I also declined their request to provide them with a telephone number in order that they could deal with the matter quickly and efficiently. I confirmed again that the amount they had stated on their letter was different to the actual amount already paid to Cf. I also confirmed that Mr Simms had not yet answered my previous points. I also declined their request for me to call their office to discuss the debt and that I would not correspond any further until all of the information I had requested had been provided in writing at my home address and only when my dispute with CF had been resolved.

 

I confirmed that until I received the information requested from them that I would only make payments to CF and that again I did not acknowledge any debt to their company.

 

I also confirmed again that my dispute was being dealt with by the FO and that they had not had the courtesy of any acknowledgement to the letter sent on 18-06-07 informing of this and requesting an acknowledgement from them.

 

I also included copies of previous correspondence with this letter.

 

I then reaffirmed that I did not wish to discus the matter on the phone with anyone from 1stC

 

22-08-07

Letter from Fiona Eaton Office of Chief Exec thanking me for my patience and confirming that she was experiencing a delay in retrieving the information needed to address the issues that had been raised with the FO and that she expected to have a response to me within 14 days.

 

22-10-07

Letter received from 1st Credit admin dept confirming that they had advised their client of my request and that the document would be sent to me as soon as possible and that as soon as I received a copy of the document could I call their office immediately to arrange settlement of the debt.

 

12-11-07

Letter from Ross Darbyshire office of chief exec thanking me for taking the time to write to him regarding 1st C taking over the account. He said how sorry he was that I had cause to complain and hoed that this letter would address my concerns

 

Apparently the collections Dept had tried to contact me in May but got no response and that they did manage to get through on another occasion but were informed that I was unavailable. On another occasion it was requested that the number we were calling be removed from their database be removed as it was a business number.

 

He said that he was confirming that a letter was sent out confirming that my account had been passed to 1stC and that this was a business decision and within their rights as per the T’s & C’s of my account.

 

He understood that this was no the outcome I would have wanted and that if I wanted an independent review the FO should be contacted within 6 months.

 

30-11-07

I wrote to CF Mr Darbyshire a 2 page letter in response to his by recorded delivery.

 

I informed him that he was under a misapprehension as to why I had complained and detailed my previous letters. I also that there must be an internal problem as none of my previous letters had been acknowledged and that I had asked why my account had been passed to 1st C when a payment plan had been agreed.

 

I then in detail outlined all of the previous events of whom I had spoken to an what letters had been sent.

 

I also confirmed the communication relating to 1st C and that it was my belief that because the information requested had not been forthcoming within the 30 day period allowed that a criminal offence had been committed. I stated that non compliance with my request meant that either 1st C or CF had committed an offence under s77 (4) of the CCA 1974 summarily punishable by a level 4 fine on the standard scale.

 

I also pasted a statement written in Hayesburys law of the land as follows

 

I then requested that because both 1st C and CF were in criminal default that the default registered against my credit file be removed within 14 days.

 

I also intimated that as so many weeks had passed that I felt that they were not in possession of a signed and executed agreement and that is this was the case that if a criminal offence had been committed that this would negate any claim they had to collect the “debt” from me and that if they were not in possession of the correct documentation at the outset they have then acted unlawfully in pursuing me for the money and registering a default on my credit file.

 

I then requested that the default be removed and that the remainder of the “debt” be written off

 

I stated that if I hadn’t heard anything within 14 days that I would be contacting the relevant authorities.

 

30-11-07

I wrote to 1st C Admin Dept stating that I wasn’t seeking to avoid responsibility for any alleged debt or breach of alleged agreement that I may have had.

 

I then confirmed all previous correspondence and stated that as I had requested a copy of my CCA which hadn’t been provided that it was my consideration that none existed. I then again stated that I was unable to acknowledge any debt to their Co.

 

I then affirmed the same as I had written to Mr Darbyshire at CF RE non compliance and that IMHO their actions arguably did not comply with the OFT guidelines for debt collection.

 

I also pointed out to the that because they had not been able to provide a copy of my CCA that this negated a default notice and that if they were to produce the documentation that they would be aware that a default notice serves to cancel any original terms and conditions and as such cancelled any right they or the original creditor may have to share my information without my consent.

 

I them outlined what I required – that all data held by them of the alleged agreement be removed from any and all CRA database.

 

Ensure that all data held my them regarding me be destroyed and that I required written confirmation of the above together with a quarterly statement that no data has been processed about me.

 

I then stated that if they failed to comply I would Refer the matter to the information commissuioner, the OFT, trading standards.

 

I then gave them a 12 day deadline and stated that any further action on their part or CF’s would be taken as an act of willful harassment and I would report each instance to the police.

 

I also stated that if I didn’t hear from them within the timescales prescribed I would consider this matter closed.

 

12-02-2008

Letter from P Cazley office of the Chief exec stating that further to the final response from Mr D previously stating that they were under no obligation to provide copies of my original agreement because they no longer had a contractual relationship with me and that they were not seeking to enfoce any agreement against me and that my right to be provided with this information from CF ended with the assignment of the debt to 1st C

 

He also confirmed that as of 31st may 2007 the account was passed to 1st C

 

The rest was blah blah blah – sorry you have had a bad experience but its all over to 1st C now – good bye.

 

19-10-2009

Annual statement received from 1stC

 

06-03-2010

Undated letter received from 1st C with pile of photocopied documents that apparently was my CCA!

 

They wanted confirmation that the signature was mine – THERE WAS NO SIG and that if it wasn’t mine could I provide a copy of my signature from an official document – passport etc.

 

08-10-2010

I wrote to 1st c admin dept advising them that the letter had been received but there was no sig.

 

I then reaffirmed all previous dates of events and reminding them that 33 months had elapsed since my first request and that they only had a mnth to comply before a criminal offence was committed.

 

I then affirmed again that I stil considered the matter closed as per my letter of 30-11-07.

 

I also stated that this debt was unenforceable as they had not been able to provide a credit agreement that was properly documented.

 

I then stated that I required the following action from then

1) all paymens mde to CF be refunded in full inc interest at 8% per annum

2) removal of all defaults entered by them or CF as a complete deletion not an amendment

3) I requested compensation undert S13 of Data Protection Act for the processing of my data over the last 2 years

4) that all processing of my data cease within their Co under section 12 of the data protection act.

 

I them stated that court action may be taken under S12 of the DPA 1998 to force them to repay all monies paid etc.

I also stated that I may pass the matter to the relevant authorities

Finally I closed by saying that I as they had chosen to ignore my statement in my last letter that I considered this latest correspondence to be a willful act of harassment.

 

12-04-2010

letter from 1st C confirming that my letter had been passed to the appropriate dept and that they would respond in due course.

 

21-04-2010

Letter from Compliance office Humera shamsuddin

 

He had looked into the account and that although they had not supplied a copy agreement within the specified time that because they had sent “my agreement” that this meant that the debt was again enforceable and that my statement that the debt was “irredeemably unenforceable” was incorrect.

 

He also stated that because my request for a copy agreement had been made to 1st C and not CF that my coment that the account should not have been passed to them was incorrect.

 

He then gave me some statements as to what the Consumer Credit Regulations 1983 state regarding cancellation notices and coies of documents. He refered to Reg 3(1) that every copy of an executed agreement shall be a true copy and that various information may be omitted including the signature box signature and date of the signature.

 

His position was that the creditor is only obliged to send out a generic copy of the agreement that the debtor has signed up to and as such 1st C had complied with the regulations.

 

He then laid out what the statement of account was in terms of what was outstanding which was actually correct in terms of what ewe had paid.

 

He then basically said that because my request for my information under s78 had been fulfilled that the default no longer continued.

 

He declined all of my previous requests.

 

He stated that my request to remove my data from either their records of the CRA’s was not justified because I have a debt that is due and payable with no clear substantiated dispute.

 

He then stated that I had not specified upon which ground I relied on for my notice under S 10 of the DPA and he did not consider this valid and this was not a valid request that fell under the exemption in schedule r section 2(a) of the act.

 

He confirmed that if they received any correspondence from any of the regulatory bodies that the y would respond accordingly.

 

He then asked to contact their office within 14 days to arrangement payment.

 

 

22-04-2010

I sent letter to Mr Shamsuddin in response –

 

“No clear substantiated dispute” – I pointed out they had not provided all of the information originally requested and that as such my dispute remained active under UK law which they were guilty of breaking in the first place,

 

I then affirmed again that what they had provided was not an original agreement and that as such I still acknowledged no debt to them.

 

I also disputed the figure they askd for in a previous letter as there were now different amounts being requested.

 

I then affirmed again about harassment and that I would be contacting the relevant bodies.

 

I then asked him again for answers to all of the questions I had previously asked which still remained unanswered.

 

04-05-2010

Letter from 1st C admin dept confirming that my letter had been passed to the appropriate dept.

 

18-05-2010

Letter from Gemma Jackson compliance officer 1st C requesting that I respectfully seek advice from a non fee charging body such as citizens advice.

 

She confirmed that apparently in a telephone conversation I had with CF in June 2007 they informed me that a default notice had been issued and that a notice had been sent to me in May 07 – which was not received by us.

 

She then stated that they did not consider the matter of whether a default notice had been issued to be relevant and asked me to explain why I thought it was relevant.

 

She quoted from the CCA s 88 re default notice relating to termination of the agreement and early payment and stated that as they were solely claiming accrued arrears and not demanding earlier (underlined) payment that they did not consider there was a requirement to terminate the agreement.

 

She then also asked me to provide them with evidence of what I had actually paid as I had disputed the amount they were claiming.

 

She then also repeated that they had provide me with a true copy of my CCA and that I may wish to make enquiries about recent test cases as heard by Judge Wakesman re True copy agreements.

 

She then referred to my request for a true copy of the deed of assignment. She quotedS136 of the Law of property Act 1925 and stated that the contract between 1st C and CF was a private contract and as such they are only obliged to notify me of this assignment which she confirmed was the one sent by CF on the 11-06-07

 

She also noted that I had asserted that they were harassing me although she felt she had to point out that the agreement was issued on my request and that subsequent correspondence was in response to my letters and that if I intend to report them to any regulatory bodies or third parties they would respond.

 

My account was then placed on hold for 21 days.

 

25-05-2010

I wrote in response detailing all previous letters and affirming again previous statements and where I believed they were in breach.

 

I also reminded her that I had sought professional legal advice and particularly when a criminal offence had been committed and invited her let me know if she was maintaining that one hadn’t been committed.

 

I then asked her to either comment on this or confirm/deny that this was the case.

 

The rest of my letter just confirmed previous dates of letter and where they had totally ignored my previous letters and respectfully told her I was not going to help them, find out where any financial discrepancies were and that they should speak with CF and work it out for hemselves!

 

02-06-2010

Yet another computer generated letter telling me my letter would be passed to the appropriate dept.

 

01-06-2010

letter from Gemma Jackson thanking me for my letter of the 25th

 

Main points

She affirmed that on reflection of several comments in my letter of 22-04-2010 it would appear that the extensive legal advice I had sought was incorrect.

 

She wrote as follows

 

“In particular your inaccuracies include :

• Your claim that 1st Credit has committed a “criminal Offence”. This may have been correct when writing your earlier letters in 2007, however, the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 section 312 states this claim is “incompatible with the contract law” thus your statement is now incorrect.

• Your “legal advisors” advised you that it is necessary for a true copy of the agreement to be signed

• Your apparent dissatisfaction with the statement of account

• Your request for a true signed copy of the deed of assignement

 

Additionally your letter of the 8th March 2010 alleges that due to the length of time taken to supply the agreement the “account has become irredeemably unenforceable by law”. In Fact your recent letter again requests confirmation that your “original request for information was not responded to within the statutory legal limits”

 

Whilst a timeframe is stated within the CCA 1974 in the event that provision of the documentation of the documentation takes longer it certainly does not cause the debt ot become “irredeemably unenforceable”. Therefore I am unsure why you require confirmation that the agreement was supplied outside the statutory time limits. Again I believe your “extensive legal advice” would have corrected this misconception.

 

She then stated that despite her request for my last statement I have omitted to supply this and she would ask for my assistance in providing evidence of my claim.

 

30-07-2010

 

Letter from G Jackson with a pile of photocopied CC statements and giving a figure of £6781.12 but that there records show that an original sum of £6781.12 was owing which is what they would be collecting.

 

She stated that as all requests for documentation had been complied with that I contact their office within 14 days to commence repayment of my debt.

 

18-08-2010

Letter from CF Ltigation Dept LEGAL PROCEEDINGS - £6727.12 (this is the correct amount)

 

01-09-2010

Letter from LCS saying that if we don’t pay up within 7days they may commence proceedings.

 

NOTE this letter arrives on the 9th sept!!!! one day over the limit they gave me

Edited by newman
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LOL, what a story, you could not make it up

 

They havent got a clue have they, sit back and stop acknowldgeing the debt, then in 6 years they can papaer the office walls with their demands.

 

LCS are their in-house muppet - he is one man and he threatend me with court last March, still waiting

PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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Thanks PHG

 

I have numerous times in my letters to them stated that I do not acknowldge any debt to them but what is concerning me is that they seem to have given (to me a non expert) fairly plausible responses to my points.

 

Obviously getting a letter now from ther legal team (even if he is only one guy) has concerned my wife and I. We can of course just sit back and do nothing and hope they go away.

 

We have now gone through more than 3 years with this bunch since we first requested our CCA. According to the description in your post the 6 years is from the last time the debt was acknowledged or a payment was made so only another 3 to go then!

 

Does the fact that they have admitted that they committed a criminal offence by not providing the CCA within the legal timeframes have any credence in Law - can they pursue me for this even when they have admitted that they committed a criminal offence.

Edited by newman
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The criminal bit went out of legislation long ago, if the stuff they have sent you was a proper agreement then they would have started legal proceedings long ago.

 

The 2 accounts I have are both credit cards and the agreements are application forms, although at first I did offer a reasonable amount in payments that they flatly refused, so I told them to go forth and multiply, ever year around January they start a gain, so every year I reply see you in court if you are so confident, still waiting

PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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Thanks for that.

As a matter of interest if they did pursue this through to the courts, and I totally acknowledge your comments that the likelyhood is that they wont, but if they did then what would be the way I would be able to defend this if the lehaislation has all changed?

 

I do know for example that the ruling of Wakeman did effectively put an end to the huge amount of Claims Management companies that were all claiming that they could get total write offs due to unenforceability.

 

I have a number of other credit cars and approx £90,000 debt (we had to use the CC's as our business was suffering cash flow probs) and I am in a similar situation with some of the others althought e CF bunch are by far the most aggresive. One or two have just gone away all together so I am anticipating a write off after 6 years.

 

It would be very good to know how to fight this - being forewarned and all that good stuff

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I would use the defence that you were happily in a repayment plan with the OC who for no apparent reason passed it to these fools who you rightly asked for prove of right to collect by means of a cca whch they have failed miserably to provide

PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well I have done exactly as has been suggested and totally ignored all of the threatening letters and through the door today came this little gem from a DHS - Debt Help Services - Gavin Flynn Head of Collections - this is a new tactic - not seen this before - anybody dealt with DHS? this is basically mary in the 1st credit office as apart from the DHS at the top of the letter everything else says 1st Credit all over it

 

Any thoughts on my next move?

 

=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=

 

DHS

Debt Help Services

 

15/09/2010

 

Dear Mr *********

Re CITI FINANCIAL EUROPE PLC

Balance £6,727.12

 

We introduce our DEBT HELP TEAM to you.

 

Our team has been asked to contact you and make every effort to reach an agreement to clear the above balance.

 

Our Debt Help Officers are available to discuss the matter with you in a courteous and considerate manner.

 

Our Debt Help Officers have been given full authority to discuss your account with a view to resolving your outstanding liability with them. If you are considering re-mortgaging your property or taking out a loan to clear your debts please advise us.

 

If we do not receive a reply within 14 days of the date of this letter, then we will assume that you have no wish to deal with this matter. Telephone us on 0843 320 0080, your reference number is ******

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this letter

 

Yours sincerely Gavin Flynn

 

Head of Collections

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Yes had one of these many moons ago, more firelighting material.

They will get cheesed of in a while and farm it out to their parlimentary wing CONOUGHTS, who wil set in in-house solictors Judge Preistley to pester you.

 

But this outfit is as usless as 1st Crud and LCS. I told them last year "I disagree, let a judge decide"

Still took not action, come to think of it not heard from them in over 12 months

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Hi Alf

Thank you for your reply.

 

This is very interesting indeed. I did a little research earlier and it seems that a number of other people on this forum have also had exactly the same letter that I have received today.

 

Interesting to note your comment about connaught and judge priestly. I will wait with baited breath.

 

So is my best tactic to just totally ignore everything I get through the door now from these people or should I be pushing to get this "debt" written off, which I have tried to do before but as you can see the answers I have had from 1st C they feel that they have no reason to write this off.

 

I really want to take this lot on but I am at a stalemate it would appear and I am also at the limit now of my knowledge of what to do next in order to get this totally written off.

 

Any thoughts or help would be very much appreciated.

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file under ignore, I know it is tempting to reply to these fools but you are really wasting your time and money on stamps etc, they dont know when they are on to a hiding to nothing and the more you reply the more they think they have you rattled so the more times they press the threat-o-matic button on the computer

PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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Thanks PGH

We have found out with some of our other creditors that the "ignore them" tactic has worked very well but this bunch are like a dog with a bone and just wouldnt go away. I was stupid for responding to them after 33 months of hearing nothing but hey you live and learn.

 

Any thoughts on what I can do to get them to finally roll over and give up?

Edited by newman
spelling mistakes
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Thanks PGH

We have found out with some of our other creditors that the "ignore them" tactic has worked very well but this bunch are like a dog with a bone and just wouldnt go away. I was stupid for responding to them after 33 months of hearing nothing but hey you live and learn.

 

Any thoughts on what I can do to get them to finally roll over and give up?

 

If you are certain they have nothing enforceable, then try what I told them;

 

"It appears we have reached a stalemate. You are of cause entitled to your opinion regarding the enforceablity of this account in court, but I disagree with the assumption you will win.

 

Therefore I will not corresponde with you further until a Judge has decided"

 

Worked for me, as I said before, not heard from them in about 12 months

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Thanks for this Alf. Blimey you are either an early or late bird not sure which 1.48 - couldnt you sleep? :)

 

It's a great suggestion to write to them and challenge them to take me to court, , however, my problem is that I have no idea if they have anything that is enforceable. I am hoping that because they were silent for 33 months that this means that what they have sent me now is not worth the paper it is written on.

 

They have tried the line that they dont have to come up with a signed copy of my original contract but I have no idea of knowing if they are right or wrong in any of their responses.

 

I am not sure at the moment if my wife and I have the energy or will to challenge them to take me to court. My wife particularly has had enough of this and I think I will see what the next few weeks bring.

 

On another note have you any experience of what the lowest amount is that a DCA will accept if we were to offer them a settlement? The reason I ask is that on other parts of this forum I have heard that 1st C will buy a £6,000 debt for around £50. My thought is to offer them 10p in the pound and send them a full and final settlement letter along with cheque for that amount. I have heard (but dont know if it is true) that if a DCA/creditor cashes a full and final cheque then that means that hey have accepted our full and final settlement offer.

 

We are certainly not in a position to do this right now but we are hoping that our financial situation may change in the future and if we were in a position to make a full and final settlement we are wondering how low they would go. Any thoughts on this? Should I offer even less? My wife thinks this would again be too much hassle getting into negotiation with them.

 

Thanks very much again for your help.

Edited by newman
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as soon as you make an offer then they are certain that they have got you and will pull out all the stops to get as much as possible, I know it is an effort with these fools but, it does become fun in the end, I have not had a threat-o-gram from any DCA for ages and quite frankly I miss their pathetic efforts

PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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Thanks PGH

Fun? Not my idea of how I want to enjoy myself - :(

 

We are not in any position to make an offer at the moment but we did wonder if by making a really silly offer of 5-10p in the £ and enclosing a cheque would they bank it or send it back.

 

My wifes view at the moment is that after 4 years of doing battle with some of these lovely people that she has had about enough. They dont seem to appreciate that normal hard working people do get into problems and that there are actually some of us out there who have tried to make inroads (albeit small ones) to pay off what we owe, rather than just try to walk away from our responsibilities.

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