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    • Well done. Are you able to tell us more about how it went on the day please? HB
    • when mediation call they will ask the same 3 questions that are in their email you had to accept it going forward. simply state 'i do not have enough information from the claimant to make an informed decision upon mediation so i refuse. end of problem.  
    • Food prices, including a $40 chicken, has stoked fury and calls for big foreign supermarket chains to come to Canada.View the full article
    • Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil National Business CEntre Name of the Claimant ? Lowell Portfolio i Ltd How many defendant's  joint or self ? Self   Date of issue –  15 Feb 2024 Particulars of Claim What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?  The claim is for the sum of £922 due by the Defendant under and agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a Capital One account with an account reference of [number with 16 digits] The Defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required by the agreement and a Default Notice was served under s.87(1) of the Consumer Credit ACt 1974 which has not been complied with. The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 16-06-23, notice of which has been given to the defendant. The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of the issue of these proceedings in the sum of £49.15 The Claimant claims the sum of £972 What is the total value of the claim? £1112 Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? I dont know the details of the PAPDC to know if it was pursuant to paragraph 3, but I did receive a Letter of Claim with a questionaire/form to fill. Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? no Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned/purchaser Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I was aware, I'm not certain I received a 'Notice of Assignment' from Capital One but may have been informed the account had been sold without such a title on the letter? Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Not since the debt purchase, and not from Capital One. Why did you cease payments? I can't remember - it was the tail end of the pandemic and I may not have had enough income to keep up payments - I am self-employed and work in the event industry - at that time. I also had a bank account that didn't allow direct debits and may have just forgotten payments and became annoyed at fines for late payments. What was the date of your last payment? Appears to be 20/4/2022 Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No Here is my Defence: Defence - 1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had an agreement with Capital One but do not recognise this specific account number or recollect any outstanding debt and have therefore requested clarification by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request.. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unaware of having been served with a Default Notice pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925 Section 136(1) 5. The Defendant has sent a request by way of a section 78 pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, for a copy of the agreement, the Claimant has yet to comply and remains in default of said request. 6. A further request has been made via CPR 31.14 to the Claimants solicitor, requesting disclosure of documents on which the Claimant is basing their claim. The Claimant has not complied and to date nothing has been received. 7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to: a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and; b) show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for and; c) show the nature of the breach and evidence by way of a Default Notice pursuant to sec 88 CCA1974 d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim 8. As per Civil Procedure 16.5 it is expected that the claimants prove the allegation that the money is owed 9. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of section 136 of the Law of Property Act and section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 10. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .................. Please note that I had to write a defence quite quickly as I hit the deadline. At the time of writing the defence, I hadn't been able to find correspondence from Capital One, but had since found default letter etc. I submitted CCA request and CPR 31.14. However, I didn't get any proof of postage or use registered post for the CPR (an oversight) but did with the CCA request. I received a pack which included a letter from Overdales, going over the defence I'd filed, as well as letters of Lowells and reprints of letters from Capital One. But I have no idea if this pack is in response to the CCA request or the CPR ! I would have expected two separate responses ... although I do know they are both the same company. Looking over the pack today, and looking through old emails .. I find some discrepancies in the Capital One default letters (notice of default and Claim of default). They are both dated *before* an email I have stating that a default can be avoided. The one single page of agreement sent (so not the full agreement) has a 16 digit number at the top in small print, next to 'Capital One' which corresponds to a number called 'PURN' printed at the top of each of the 10 pages of ins and outs of the account (they're not official statements, but a list of monthly goings) yet no mention anywhere on either of the account number. I cant really scan them at the moment - I can later tomorrow, but that will be after the mediation call I'm sure. I guess I may be on my own for this mediation ... I am not certain the CCA request has been satisfied .. or if the CPR has been . And then I appear to have evidence that the Default notices provided are fabricated ? Yet, I do have (elsewhere ... not at home) Default letters from Capital One I can check ..
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Welcome Credit Agreement - Manipulated?!?


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I took a personal loan with Welcome Finance on 5th November 2008 which included Personal Accident & Payment Protection Insurance. I then decided to cancel the Insurances within the cooling off period.

 

Welcome Finance cancelled the Insurance and informed me of my new monthly payment. No revised credit agreement was sent to me nor did i sign a revised agreement.

 

I got behind with my monthly payments and Welcome started to harass me so I sent a CCA request to them on 8th April 2008.

 

I received a phone call from Welcome asking for a payment, my reply was were is my credit agreement. They told me, you have it already..... I said, yes i have the original but not an ammended one to reflect the cancellation of Insurances and reflecting my new monthly payment. At this point Welcome put the phone down.

 

Since that phone call I have been contacted by 3 different depatments at different addresses telling me that they have never received £1 payment for a copy of my CCA.

 

I wrote to Welcome on 12th June 2010 telling that they have had the £1 and that they are in default of my request

 

Today 18th June 2010 I received 2 different letters telling me that thet are in the process of dealing with my CCA request. Also in the samepost in a 3rd envelope was a CCA and statement of account.

 

The Credit agreement that has been sent to me shows the Insurances removed, with my signature on the agreement.

 

1. I did not sign a new agreement.

 

2. The Original agrrement was signed on 5th Nov 2008 and the agreement that they have sent me was alllegedly signed by me on 25th Nov 2008. It appears they have addded a 2 before the 5.

 

Welcome stupidly have cobbled an agreement together ....... What is my next move????

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can you match the signature on the 1st agreement to the 2nd agreement? ie do they match like for like? if so, looks like they could have lifted it off the old one and photocopied it onto the new one.

 

try putting one over the other and hold up to the light to see. No two signatures are exactly the same so in your case, if they are, then you may have a case against them.

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welcome did the same to me

 

i got a report from a graphologist and was using it in court

 

scared the hell out of welcome

 

result was no more welcome/default or agreement on credit files

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what date did welcome sign to execute the agreement

 

 

The first agreement that I kept a copy of was signed by Welcome on 11/11/08

 

 

The secomd agreement allegedly signed by me with the PPI removed has not been signed by Welcome

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can you match the signature on the 1st agreement to the 2nd agreement? ie do they match like for like? if so, looks like they could have lifted it off the old one and photocopied it onto the new one.

 

try putting one over the other and hold up to the light to see. No two signatures are exactly the same so in your case, if they are, then you may have a case against them.

 

 

The second signature is different to the first one. I know 100% i did not sign a second agreement.

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Take it to your local police station and ask to speak to a CID fraud officer.

I thought I was up against enough with Welcomes PROVEN shifty practices but you are alleging forgery and deceit of the most serios kind. If you see my post of today elsewhere on this forum then you will see what I mean. I am waiting for a reply from Welcome myself before alleging fraud in the case of an extra item added to a car loan with no ones consent. Is there no depth Welcome will not sink to?

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To be honest I am shocked ......

 

1. I know i did not sign an new credit agreement when I cancelled the PPI and this is one of the reasons I sent off a CCA request.

 

2. In a telephone conversation with Welcome they questioned why i wanted a copy of my CCA... I explained to them that It's because I do not have a copy of any new agreement with the PPI removed (knowing that I have never signed one)

 

3. Request CCA on 8th April 2010 and my £1 fee shows on my Welcome statement on 12th April 2010.

 

4. June 2010, I sent them a letter telling me that they are in default of my CCA request

 

5. June 2010, Welcome tell me that they have never received the £1 fee despite the £1 showing on my statement in April 2010.

 

Since April 2008, Welcome have used stalling taticts to provide a CCA. Why did they not send a copy of the very first agreement, but choose to cobble together an agreement that never existed in the first place???

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This Just keeps getting better.... I received a default notice from Welcome Finance this morning!!!!

 

I want to put together a strong worded letter and send it to Welcome.... any help would be appreciated.

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but in th emeantime, do what BigCannon said. If they really have doctored an agreement as you suspect, they have committed a crime. A crime with consequences (like being sent to prison)

 

 

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but in th emeantime, do what BigCannon said. If they really have doctored an agreement as you suspect, they have committed a crime. A crime with consequences (like being sent to prison)

 

 

Yes they have 100% cobbled the second agreement together as I never signed and ammended Credit Agreement.... I want to write to Welcome, but I am unsure what to put in the letter!!!

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Hi Drob

 

When I Got A Moment Ill Do A Letter To Send This Lot

 

 

Hi postggj...

 

Thank you very much for your time and help an I look forward to your draught letter.

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Just A Few Questions Drob

 

Please Confirm

 

You Signed The 1st Agreement 5/11/2008

 

You Cancelled All The Insurance Crap, Within 28 Days, Welcome Gave You A New Monthly Payment But No New Credit Agreement Or Agreement To Modify

 

How Different Is The Second Signature, Is It Obviouse

 

Phone These People In The Morning And Confirm They Did Cancell The Insurance Crap And Date

 

http://www.directgroup.co.uk/

 

Give Me Those Answers And You Will Have Your Letter

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1. You Signed The 1st Agreement 5/11/2008? Yes

2. You Cancelled All The Insurance Crap, Within 28 Days, Welcome Gave You A New Monthly Payment But No New Credit Agreement Or Agreement To Modify Yes

3. How Different Is The Second signaturelink3.gif, Is It is slighly different to the original signature, Welcome may have lifted the signature from another document or letter to cobble the second agreement together. The second agreement has no signature from Welcome so is not properly executed.

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Get Back To Me Ref Direct Group And Ill Do The Letter Either By Pm Or In The Open

 

Your Choice

 

 

I will ring Direct Group in the morning and let you know. You can put the draught letter on the thread if you like.

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I have called Direct Group and they have confirmed that the Insurance was cancelled.

 

I have also attached the alleged Credit Agreement that Welcome sent to me. The terms & conditions were stapled to the back of the agreement. I have blanked out personal details.

 

As far as i can see the cobbled together agreement doesn't have an agreement number nor has it been executed by Welcome. Are there any other problems with the agreement?????

Welcome CCA.PDF

Terms & Conditions.PDF

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When the Insurance was cancelled, I would have thought that a new agreement was required to be drawn up minus all references to the Insurance.

 

You are claiming (I think) that an agreement has been provided to you on which the signature alleged to be yours, is questionable ?

 

What was to be the purpose of the letter Post was drafting for you ? Sorry if that question seems dense to you.. but I dont quite understand what is going on.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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When the Insurance was cancelled, I would have thought that a new agreement was required to be drawn up minus all references to the Insurance.

 

You are claiming (I think) that an agreement has been provided to you on which the signature alleged to be yours, is questionable ? YES

 

What was to be the purpose of the letter Post was drafting for you ? Sorry if that question seems dense to you.. but I dont quite understand what is going on.

I am not sure as to what post was planning to put in the draught letter

 

 

Have you had a look at the cobbled together agreement that Welcome supplied?

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No, I hadnt looked at the agreement.. will go and do so now.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I have to admit, that this type of agreement is not within my knowledge. I dont understand what you are meaning by "cobbled" together.

 

Were your name and address on the document. I am not sure what the consequences of there not being an agreement number on the paperwork means unless other details are radically incorrect as well.

 

Are you saying that the terms and conditions were not or could not be part of the original document. Did you ever receive a copy of the original document by which you can confirm without proof that they are two unconnected pages ?

 

What does concern me is that, if radical changes are made to an agreement as in this case the removal of the insurance. Then I would have thought a new agreement would have been drawn up, as I already said. It changes the whole agreement and you would need protection should as has happened.. litigation happened.

 

Plus of course you are claiming that the signature isnt yours. You would need to hire an expert witness to back up your claim if this were to end up in court.

 

The qoute below was taken from your first post. You say the agreement was started in November 2008.. then later on that you sent a CCA request in April 2008 ? do you mean April 2009 ?

 

 

 

I took a personal loan with Welcome Finance on 5th November 2008 which included Personal Accident & Payment Protection Insurance. I then decided to cancel the Insurances within the cooling off period.

 

Welcome Finance cancelled the Insurance and informed me of my new monthly payment. No revised credit agreement was sent to me nor did i sign a revised agreement.

 

I got behind with my monthly payments and Welcome started to harass me so I sent a CCA request to them on 8th April 2008.

 

The only thing I can suggest you do is write to Welcome ,advising that you have serious doubts about the authenticity of the paperwork they have provided you with and until such times as they provide you with an accurate copy of the original then you consider the account to be in dispute.

 

If at such times legal action is commenced, then you will be entitled under CPR31.15 to ask to inspect the original document. I would think as this account is so new, then they would have the original document on file.

 

HTH

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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