Ryanair Compensation Claim - Volcano Problem.

[denso13]

Caffey,

 

Please see the reply we received here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/holiday-companies/259807-ryanair-claim-turned-down.html

 

It would be interesting to see the response others get.

[Moroccoval]

We have not applied for a flight refund for our cancelled flight from Morocco on April 17th, but have been sent an email from Ryan Air in response to a claim for food, travel & accomodation telling us that we have applied for a flight refund. This will automatically be paid into my account and therefore we won't be able to make further claims. Is this true? If so how do we stop the money being paid in?

 

I will try the 2 email addresses on these boards because, like most people, I do not have a fax at home. Fax seems to be Ryan Air's prefered method of communication adding an extra difficulty to people's claims.

[parsonjacks]

why does this not surprise me..?

 

i faxed off my claim for accommodation and food etc on the form on Ryanair's website approx 2 weeks ago.

 

i have this week had an email response from [email protected] informing me that they ackowledge recipet of the claim and there will now be a further delay while it is validated. i *was* expecting another mail at some point to ask me to send reciepts etc..but now i'm not so hopeful.

 

i think all you can do is to attempt to mail them at either this address or others in this thread and put them straight that you dont want a flight refund. you could also ask your bank if they could refuse the payment if attempted..?

 

one thought though...are you certain that the 'refund' they are offering is definately for the flight cost only and they are not actually referring to the refund of accommodation etc? You might find yourself in a bigger hole if you turn that one down due to Ryanair's ambigous terminology...

[perplexity]

This will automatically be paid into my account and therefore we won't be able to make further claims. Is this true? If so how do we stop the money being paid in?

 

My posting to this thread, 9th May 2010 already pointed out that Article 12 of (EC) No 261/2004 provides that

 

Further compensation

1. This Regulation shall apply without prejudice to a passenger's rights to further compensation. The compensation granted under this Regulation may be deducted from such compensation.

 

Article 1 of (EC) No 261/2004 also specifically provides that "This Regulation establishes, under the conditions specified herein, minimum rights for passengers".

 

N.B. "minimum", not maximum.

 

[slugo]

anybody got a refund or compensation yet? i received a email telling me i was to get a refund of flight which i had allready got on the 2nd of june but since that email nothing not even acknowlage receipt of my letter with expenses in it. i also got the same letter as above more or less telling me the refund of flight is all i,m getting which is a sly way to try and put you off persueing it further which is not what is quoted in 261 i,m not giving up i spent 2 days queuing for a bus from benidorm and 50 hours on the road getting home with no help or support from ryanair the worst part of the trip was dover to edinburgh it was after midnight no trains no buses and prices shot up train £245 each single with no gaurantee of a seat so stayed in the station till morning and got a bus, it just gos to show what werte thought of in our own country spanish were brillent and the french but from dover on was just a nightmare

[carlosbambino]

I got my refund within 2 weeks wich was a asurprise. i emailed every one i could find and faxed Ryanair Customer Services on +353 1 5081702

[carlosbambino]

try these email addys

Ryanair Campaign

[perplexity]

It is tragic that the victims continue to be fooled into this

 

We had no idea that a refund of the flight cost excluded us from other compensation

 

 

A refund of the flight cost does not exclude from further compensation, nor in any case does it completely eliminate the airline's duty to offer appropriate care, under Regulation (EC) No 261/2004

 

 

Read the previous postings to this thread, for further details.

Edited June 18, 2010 by perplexity

[slugo]

i don,t have a fax but used the online one as on the other web site, my claim was sent before the address appeared on there web site and it says do not apply more then once

Edited June 19, 2010 by slugo
spelling

[parsonjacks]

had an email yesterday that asks me to complete an online form and then submit original reciepts to address provided...seemed like progress until i found the link provided does not work....

 

link is to www.ryanaireu261.com plus a load of gumph after that...

 

anyone else victim of what a cynic would suggest may be another stalling tactic..?

[BobDoer66]

I have received an email from Ryanair asking me to click on the URL and fill out the form and send it with receipts to the address. Well, the URL does not work and I do not agree we should be sending original receipts to Ryanair.

 

Also, I sent copies of all my receipts and a letter to Ryainair on 26/04/2010 - followed by the claim form that appeared on the website and wrote on there to match it up with my letter, so they should not need any further information. It is purely delaying tactics and because you cannot actually get to speak to them or they do not reply to emails, you are stuck and have to do what they say.

 

I am not happy and do not know what to do - Ryanair are charlatans - this is outrageous! I will never use Ryanair again.

[parsonjacks]

give the URL another go....it is now mysteriously working for me

[slugo]

this is the email i got

Dear Customer,

We acknowledge the receipt of your recent letter.

We regret to advise that our position remains as per our previous correspondence.

According to the Regulation, as you chose not to wait for a flight, there is no automatic entitlement to travel by other means at the airline's expense. Please also find below an extract from the Irish National Enforcement Body’s, Commission for Aviation Regulation’s, website which is clear on this situation:

“It is important to note that in the event that passengers made alternative arrangements to get home i.e. by boat, train or with another air carrier, then the original air carrier is only obliged to provide a refund of the cost of the flight ticket.”

So how do passengers go about getting reimbursement?

As Ryanair has already processed a refund of your unused flight, no further reimbursement can be paid.

Our decision regarding this issue is final and no further correspondence will be entered into.

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

Ryanair Customer Services

just a bunch of cheating bast+++ds

[perplexity]

FYI, some more advice from the Irish Commission for Aviation Regulation:

 

Q: The airline having cancelled my flight only offered a flight the next day which was unsuitable. As a result I booked another flight with a different airline. What are my refund entitlements?

A: You are entitled to a refund for the unused (cancelled) flight from the airline. However Regulation (EC) 261/2004 does not provide for reimbursement of alternative travel expenses or losses incurred due to a delayed arrival at your destination. To claim consequential expenses such as these it will be necessary to take a case against the airline under the Montréal Convention. All Montreal Convention claims must be made through courts such as the Small Claims Court in Ireland.

P.S. I have heard tell that the Irish Courts provide a service whereby it is possible to claim online, or the same could be tried via HMCS Money Claim Online.

 

----

 

I would get back to the Airline, to be clear that you are offering them the opportunity to settle the matter without the cost of a Court hearing, and if they continue to decline, so be it, a plaintiff's eventual recovery of the cost of a won case should then be a foregone conclusion.

 

As a simple matter of common sense, a passenger who gets himself home as soon as possible thereby saved the cost of food and hotels for the extended period, so the airline is daft to fail to encourage a passenger to help himself for want of an offer that should rather happen.

 

----

 

 

Edited June 24, 2010 by perplexity
P.S.

[chris600uk]

No that's not right.

 

You cannot use the HMCS Money Claim Online to sue Ryanair.

 

Ryanair doesn't meet the criteria - so your claim will not be accepted.

[chris600uk]

You can sue from the UK.

[slugo]

how can i do it then? i sent them a letter giving them a chance to pay before i started proceedings. all i,m asking for is the 3 days accomodation and meals plus transport to the airport which is what i,m entitled to works out to be around 200 euros not unreasonable amount like some i,ve heard of.i sent all imformation to them as proof i was there at that time, getting sick of the little people getting treated like c**p

[chris600uk]

I don't know exactly. The small claims won't work because Ryanair Limited don't have a UK postal address, but, several people have done it, three that I know of for sure. One was unsuccessful because their claim was based on the terms of the Montreal Convention, but their flight started and ended outside the UK so the court ruled it didn't have jurisdiction (pretty stupid really, all you have to do is read it), another was unsuccessful because they couldn't prove that Ryanair had been untruthful, and that was after they'd tried to sue Ryanair UK Limited (stanstead) and had his claim dismissed, he was able to serve papers on Ryanairs solicitors at that time, and the third was successful precisely because the terms of the Montreal Convention did give the UK court jurisdiction. They won.

 

So, yes it can be done, but it's not easy and unless you've done your homework you will not win.

You can rely upon Ryanair to use the best that they can find, and you can count on it, they WILL have done their homework.

 

The other way is a trip to Dublin (perhaps by Ryanair?), unless you can find a nice Irish solicitor who will represent you in court and save you the trip. Probably cheaper to go yourself though.

[chris600uk]

There have been different views on what is possible and what is not possible.

 

One school of thought - apparently professional - says that suing a person outside the UK is not possible.

 

But people have done it and this says:“The second indent of Article 5(1)(b) of Council Regulation (EC) No 44/2001 of 22 December 2000 on jurisdiction and the recognition and enforcement of judgments in civil and commercial matters must be interpreted as meaning that, in the case of air transport of passengers from one Member State to another Member State, carried out on the basis of a contract with only one airline, which is the operating carrier, the court having jurisdiction to deal with a claim for compensation founded on that transport contract and on Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 February 2004 establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights and repealing Regulation (EEC) No 295/91, is that, at the applicant's choice, which has territorial jurisdiction over the place of departure or place of arrival of the aircraft, as those places are agreed in that contract.”

 

That doesn't seem too complicated does it?

 

If you took off or landed in the UK; then a UK court has jurisdiction, and the applicant (that's you and me) can choose where to start the claim.

 

 

Anyone got any comments?

[chris600uk]

Incidentally, in another thread Buzby suggested using a paralegal as one more option, might be cheaper than using either an irish solicitor, or flying to dublin on ryanair:)

[Cityboy62]

You could try the European Small Claims Procedure: Making a Claim

[perplexity]

It seems to me that the argument over this is needless complicated.

 

With regard to a flight that took off and landed within the European Union, it follows as a matter of principle, that the relevant jurisdiction is the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, hence the jurisdiction of an appropriate court with the greater jurisdiction of the ECJ.

 

The appropriate location is not then so much of a matter of the right or duty to try the case, but rather a question of the practical ramification.

 

The Treaty on European Union was supposed to relieve a consumer of the worry.

 

[chris6247]

The European Court of Justice does NOT have jurisdiction for consumer claims against airlines. One of the fundamental rules of the ECJ is that ALL domestic remedies (i.e. proceedings in appropriate national courts and tribunals) must have been exhausted.

[perplexity]

The European Court of Justice does NOT have jurisdiction for consumer claims against airlines.

 

See for instance Rehder v Air Baltic [European Court of Justice, 9 July 2009 Case C-204/08]

 

The ECJ confirmed that in respect of a contract for air transport services from one member state to another with one sole airline as the carrier, the court having jurisdiction to deal with a claim for compensation under Regulation 261/2004 is the court having jurisdiction over the place of departure or the place where the aircraft arrives.

 

Here is the press release:

 

http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2009-07/cp090062en.pdf

 

[chris6247]

The case mentioned here had already been before a national court. You can NOT issue first instance proceedings against Ryanair in the ECJ, you have to exhaust all domestic remedies first and if the case goes to the ECJ it has to be on a substantial matter of EU law that the domestic court is unable to resolve. If this was not so, the ECJ would be choked with consumer cases. It is a court of LAST RESORT on EU law.