Any Help Appreciated - Council Tax / Rossendales

[Cupcates]

Hello all.

 

In a bit of a state of panic, any help would be so gratefully received because I just don't know what to do now. I've tried to find answers on the forum but nothing specific has come up...

 

My husband and I owe Council Tax. Apparently there was a court hearing in Feb 2008 which we did not attend. This was a really bad time for my husband, health wise, and I don't recall a Summons - but it was such a confused period I can't be sure. Anyway, we didn't attend.

 

We moved house in April 2008. The council were aware of this my husband's health problems had lead to him having to go on to ESA, and we were claiming Housing Benefit. The council tax arrears stem from 06-07 when he was still working. I'm not sure of the exact amount.

 

We heard nothing until November 2008 when we got a bit of paper through the door from Rossendales, saying they had visited along with an arrest warrant and were there to execute it. I didn't even know who Rossendales were, we'd had no contact from them at all. I called our local court to see if this arrest warrant existed and they couldn't confirm, but they did say that Rossendales were our council's bailiffs so I should try the council.

 

Council were very unhelpful and said that we owed money and it was now with Rossendales so we needed to contact them. Have a bit of previous experience dealing with this from helping a friend, so asked them to take the debt back but they said no.

 

We called Community Legal Advice, who told us to send Rossendales an income/expenditure form and offer repayments. We offered £7 a month which I know is paltry but it's all we can afford due to husband's ill health and reliance on benefits, and my Carer's Allowance still hasn't come through. We sent the letter recorded delivery and I still have the proof. This was in November.

 

At the end of December, we got a letter from the council saying we needed to surrender to the arrest warrant but we ignored it as we thought we had covered that on advice of CLA with the income/expenditure.

 

Then, nothing, until this morning when we got another of those "we visited to arrest your husband" cards through the door. My husband is a deeply unwell man and this panicked the heck out of me. I've had no recognition of the means test I sent.

 

What on earth do we do? I'm loathe to contact Rossendales - they've never sent us a letter or anything, and I don't want to call the mobile number on these "arrest" slips. Should I call the council again? Resend the means test?

 

Or does my husband need to surrender to this warrant? What does that even entail? He's got severe memory problems and I'm terrified of what that might mean.

 

I just don't know what our next course of action is - 5.30am fear has hit and it seems forever until the CLA open, not that it seems to matter as their suggestion didn't seem to do anything.

 

Any help GREATLY appreciated.

[hallowitch]

I have sent a message to the site team as i feel you need some expert help with this

 

try not to panic not easy i know

If you are worried your husband will go to jail he wont the fact that you have sent an income expenditure and made an offer of payment means you have not refused to pay this debt

[Cupcates]

I have sent a message to the site team as i feel you need some expert help with this

 

try not to panic not easy i know

If you are worried your husband will go to jail he wont the fact that you have sent an income expenditure and made an offer of payment means you have not refused to pay this debt

 

Thanks so much, it's not easy but it is nice to hear. Just woke up in the middle of the night panicking about it.

 

I'm not actually worried he'll be sent to prison. I probably should have mentioned that the letter from the council says he needs to surrender to the warrant so a Magistrates Hearing can be scheduled for an 'enquiry'. I'm just wondering what "surrendering" means really... he's not very cognitive but still physically fit and able, so people assume he can do things he can't.

 

Is 'surrendering' a case of going to the police station or can he just call and ask them to fix a new court date, is the basic issue on that front.

 

I should have been clearer.

[hallowitch]

Is 'surrendering' a case of going to the police station or can he just call and ask them to fix a new court date, is the basic issue on that front.

 

In all honesty i don't know

 

If/when your hubby goes to court take a copy of the income/expenditure letter you sent to Rossendales, along with your proof of posting

proof of your income and proof of your husbands illness

also make sure that you ask to pay this by standing order

a lot of bailiffs firms are insisting you pay with a payplan card (i think thats what it called ) this will cost you an extra £1/£2 every time you make a payment and there is more chance of defaulting paying it this way

[Cupcates]

a lot of bailiffs firms are insisting you pay with a payplan card (i think thats what it called ) this will cost you an extra £1/£2 every time you make a payment and there is more chance of defaulting paying it this way

 

That's really good to know, I'll say it has to be standing order.

 

I have all those proofs to hand, should it come to that.

 

Thank you!

[hallowitch]

you welcome i just wish i could have done more

this might help you

NATIONAL STANDARDS FOR ENFORCEMENT AGENTS may 2002

Those who might be potentially vulnerable include:

• the elderly;
  
• people with a disability;
  
• the seriously ill;
  
• the recently bereaved;
  
• single parent families;
  
• pregnant women;
  
• unemployed people; and,
  
• those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English
  

__________________

[crockie]

I'm definately dont know as much as Hallowitch about all this (indeed I have received help from her )

 

But my first thoughts on reading this were that I would be on the phone to the head of recoveries at the council at 9am and I wouldnt take no for an answer, if he/she isnt available ask for a call back and if they havent called back by a certain time, then call again.

 

I understand that the council should know what benefits you are receiving and as a result realise that your husband is ill, however just because they should doesnt mean they do.

 

One call may go a long way to sorting this out, especially if you can prove that you have tried to make an arrangement to pay.

 

I would also look to see if your husbands doctor would provide a letter to state that he isnt well enough to attend court.

 

As I say the above are just my thoughts and I will be interested to see what the more knowledgable people suggest.

[hallowitch]

I'm definitely don't know as much as Hallowitch about all this (indeed I have received help from her )

 

But my first thoughts on reading this were that I would be on the phone to the head of recoveries at the council at 9am and I wouldn't take no for an answer, if he/she isn't available ask for a call back and if they haven't called back by a certain time, then call again.

 

defiantly a good idea

 

I understand that the council should know what benefits you are receiving and as a result realise that your husband is ill, however just because they should doesn't mean they do.

correct all they have to do is look and see if you are in receipt of housing/CT benefit this tells them what benefits you receive

 

One call may go a long way to sorting this out, especially if you can prove that you have tried to make an arrangement to pay.

Rossendales have obviously not done there job or it wouldn't have got to this stage IMO

 

I would also look to see if your husbands doctor would provide a letter to state that he isn't well enough to attend court.

another excellent idea

 

As I say the above are just my thoughts and I will be interested to see what the more knowledgeable people suggest.

 

I thought i would get tomtubby on this as the council have said he has to surrender to an arrest warrant

[palomino]

I'm not an expert in any shape or form - it hasn't happened to me or anyone I know.

This sounds as though they want to consider imprisonment for your husband which is an option for those who willingly and intentionally won't pay up.

As this doesn't apply in your case I would rest easy on that score. But you will need to have all your documentation ready in order to support your statement of your circumstances as you will, at least initially, be treated like a common criminal.

You will have to face some firm, maybe even aggressive, questioning until the facts of the case are accepted.

 

 

As a side issue I would welcome the option to be imprisoned. It costs the state a lot of money to imprison people, and (depending on where you are) the local papers would love this sort of news. Some national papers would also be interested.

On the down side they will take a tissue sample to obtain your DNA. If you are eventually convicted you will have this on file for some time (until it is 'spent'). You won't be able to go to the USA and some other countries because of your conviction - and some of these countries don't even subscribe to the principle of convictions being spent - you have them for life. These things may or may not be imprtant to you.

[seanamarts]

Ive not actually heard of this either, or the procedures of this happening.

You are definitely in the 'vulnerable stage' and your council should be made aware of this. Unfortunately in cases like this the councils often dont know their arse from their elbow and when some one has failed to pay they dont look at circumstances they look towards their bailiffs to do that job for them, which they often do incorrectly. keep us informed of any further actions and I know that people will be along shortly to give some advice on how to proceed. Dont forget that we are hear to help and see you through this

[ploddertom]

I feel sorry for you having come to this. It will pay to "Surrender" to the warrant issued - this will be at the Court where the Liability Order was granted. This will be a precursor to you filing a means test through the Court and they will establish what level(s) of payment you will pay and how this will be done. If on Benefits then it will be deducted at source. As your husband is unwell you must provide proof of this and this will all be taken into account at any hearing.

 

As a first step you should contact the Court on your husband's behalf - you may have to pass the phone to him for him to confirm you can speak on his behalf.

 

The Council will have taken this decision in view of the length of time and sums involved and will be trying to categorise you as a won't pay rather than a can't pay. Does your husband have a "Case" worker or similar who can speak for you or provide further evidence of his health. You also really need to contact the Council to see if they also have a Welfare Rights Adviser or similar who may be able to speed any Benefit applications up - for instance are getting all you are entitled to.

 

Have you enlisted your local Councillor for help as I'm sure when you tell him the Council are hounding a sick person with an Arrest Warrant and the local press are very interested he will jump - he has direct access to the higher ups at the Council.

 

PT

[RaeUK]

Hi cupcates. Sorry, late into the fray as usual.

Well, in those immortal words penned by Douglas Adams - Don't panic!

I'm going to start by saying a very bizarre thing indeed. In my view, I think this is very good news for you and hubby.

Ploddertom and Hallowitch, amongst others, have given you very good advice. A sort of two pronged approach.

There is no doubt in my mind that you both fall into the vulnerable category as determined by the National Standards of Enforcement Agents. I know HW has mentioned this document to you but I can't remember if she posted a link. So here it is:

 

http://www.dca.gov.uk/enforcement/agents02.htm#part10

 

[you may need to put a dot between 'www' and 'D C A' - not sure what's happening, there must be gremlins about...]

 

The council will be aware of this and should be following it. Problem being it's not a legal obligation but a moral one. You have the moral highground here for sure!

 

Why do I think it's good news being summonsed? Well, the magistrates court will definately be fully aware of the Standards and the magistrate should have them very firmly in mind. For you and hubby, that's a good thing. All you need do is turn up, provide proof of benefits, and proof of illness - I'm sure his GP will be happy to confirm his health issues. Obviously, this is not a get-out clause but a means for you to establish a realistic and sustainable payment plan. The court should help you with this. Make it clear you recognise the debt, wish to pay, but under the circumstances didn't know how to proceed.

I do not believe for one second that incarceration is in the offing. Look forward to your day in court as an opportunity to sort this out and say goodbye Mr Bailiff.

 

And in the meantime, of course, give the council a pain in their proverbials!

 

I will be very interested to see how things work out for you both. You have many people on here who care, so do keep us posted.

 

Best wishes

Rae.

Edited January 30, 2010 by RaeUK
Hey! What happened to my linky thing?????????

[MARTIN3030]

Thanks for report Rae-I have refd it to Webmaster.

[ploddertom]