ebay court case

[classe]

Hi all

 

As requested the poc form from county court.

Sorry i have had to insert the picture into a pdf due to the scan size.

Hope you are able to open ok.

 

Thanks for all your replies so far.

Picture1.pdf

[pt2537]

there is also an issue here as to whether there is a binding contract.

 

Was the ebay add an offer? or an invitation to treat?

 

has there been offer and acceptance?

 

Those pleadings are frankly bizzare, have no legal merit and i would say that i would have this case dismissed within 5 minutes if i were the advocate in this case

 

its nonsense full stop

[mightymouse_69]

I believe it would be an invitation to treat - Most displays of goods, auctions and e-commerce fall under that heading.

[pt2537]

I believe it would be an invitation to treat - Most displays of goods, auctions and e-commerce fall under that heading.

well it may well be, but to be honest, this case is sooo poor that the claimant is not going to win full stop

[mightymouse_69]

Im unable to see the PoC... says the attachment is pending approval!

[pt2537]

lol,sorry forgot that we can see it but you couldnt

 

Done

[hightail]

has there been offer and acceptance?

 

Well I'd go as far as to admit there has been an initial offer - sight unseen. I don't see how acceptance can take place until the money changes hands in any everyday transaction. For example, a shopkeeper can ring through an amount on a till and then still say 'hang on that's wrong'. Once you've paid then your offer was accepted and the deal is done. It's the same for the customer. Even if an amount has been rung through the till a customer is not obliged to take the goods and can withdraw the offer.

 

Do agree that the whole thing is ridiculous. I wonder if the claimant will even turn up.

[pt2537]

Well I'd go as far as to admit there has been an initial offer - sight unseen. I don't see how acceptance can take place until the money changes hands in any everyday transaction. For example, a shopkeeper can ring through an amount on a till and then still say 'hang on that's wrong'. Once you've paid then your offer was accepted and the deal is done. It's the same for the customer. Even if an amount has been rung through the till a customer is not obliged to take the goods and can withdraw the offer.

 

Do agree that the whole thing is ridiculous. I wonder if the claimant will even turn up.

Its not quite as simple as that, you can accept an offer by conduct, by written correspondance etc, the example you use there is probably not the most ideal one, but quite frankly, this case has no legs at all, depending on the amount in dispute id seek advice from a solicitors and screw him to the floor

[mightymouse_69]

Thanks!

 

I wonder what the amount is that the claimant wants to claim for (other than court costs)

 

Acceptance does not require money to change hands. It is merely agreeing to the terms... "I'll sell this to you for £500" "ok then, i'll come and collect it tomorrow." - that would be acceptance.

 

The acceptance must be unconditional though.

 

However, if we say that this is an invitation to treat... it is the claimant that would have had to give acceptance - you made the offer to buy!

[classe]

this is great feedback and a real confidence boost i hope you are right about this guy not winning, he says on his papers he has submitted to the court he has taken me to court because when i said i would not pay for it i also said even if he took me to court,so thats what he did .nice bloke!

he is claiming the full cost of the caravan plus his court costs

Edited January 12, 2010 by classe
more info

[hightail]

the example you use there is probably not the most ideal one

 

Agreed. I was trying to think of simple everyday transactions between ordinary individuals.

 

What about if I see something on Gumtree or Freeads. I email the seller saying I want to buy the item they are advertising and I'll be over on Friday. Has acceptance taken place at that point?

[mightymouse_69]

Agreed. I was trying to think of simple everyday transactions between ordinary individuals.

 

What about if I see something on Gumtree or Freeads. I email the seller saying I want to buy the item they are advertising and I'll be over on Friday. Has acceptance taken place at that point?

 

I would argue no, you have made an offer to buy.

[mightymouse_69]

he is claiming the full cost of the caravan plus his court costs

 

Eh!

 

I dont think he has a chance, even on the chance that the court found against you and said there was a breach... i dont see how or why they would award him the cost of the caravan!

 

The courts aim to place the claimant in the posistion he would be had the contract been fulfilled... he has lost no money (or very little) by you not paying him.

 

Courts can force the contract to go ahead (so force the sale) but i dont see this happening either.

 

Please keep us informed of what happens!

[hightail]

he is claiming the full cost of the caravan plus his court costs

 

There is a little bit of me hoping he does turn up and brings the caravan with him

[pt2537]

There is a little bit of me hoping he does turn up and brings the caravan with him

this is where he will fail.

 

 

There is no entitlement for the cost of the caravan, he still has the van, he has suffered no damage to that extent.

 

the only losses he has are the ebay listing fees and thats providing there is no misrepresentation or negligent mis rep

 

quite frankly this guys screwed.

 

whens the hearing? i may be tempted to get the suit on and come down lol

[hightail]

What about if I see something on Gumtree or Freeads. I email the seller saying I want to buy the item they are advertising and I'll be over on Friday. Has acceptance taken place at that point?

I would argue no, you have made an offer to buy.

 

So when, in an ordinary private transaction has the seller accepted the offer? Up to what point can an offer be withdrawn? I still think that for normal people not involved in complicated corporate dealings nothing is binding until the money is handed over.

[pt2537]

an offer can be withdrawn until it is accepted

[classe]

Thanks again for all your comments and advice, i will certainly keep you informed of the outcome,i offered this guy his ebay costs when i met him, i even tried £100 compensation in a letter i sent him, all of this info i have given to the court. i can now go armed with some more knowledge and ammunition. anybody who lives near Dartford its Friday 15th 10am.

[hightail]

an offer can be withdrawn until it is accepted

 

OK, that's what it says in the book but in real life it isn't that obvious. At what point, in ordinary everyday life, does a seller have the chance to demand they have accepted the offer and it can't be withdrawn? It isn't when the shopkeeper rings it up on the till and it isn't when the Freeads guy accepts I'm coming over on Friday to buy what he had advertised so when is it?

[Nagasis]

From what I have read, the claimant can't even claim for listing fees as it was not sold when listed due to not reaching the reserve price. It was a second chance offer.

[hightail]

anybody who lives near Dartford its Friday 15th 10am

 

I wish I did. I could do with a laugh. Best Wishes.

[pt2537]

OK, that's what it says in the book but in real life it isn't that obvious. At what point, in ordinary everyday life, does a seller have the chance to demand they have accepted the offer and it can't be withdrawn? It isn't when the shopkeeper rings it up on the till and it isn't when the Freeads guy accepts I'm coming over on Friday to buy what he had advertised so when is it?

lol, actually, thats what the LAW says, not just in text books, although my copy of Chitty on Contract does support this view too.

 

The law is about applying the law to the facts of each individual case, so each case is different and needs to be dealt with as such

[noomill060]

Ebay provides a system whereby a seller can have his "final value fee" ie Ebay's commission, refunded in the event of a non paying buyer, so even if he (the seller) were claiming this, the buyer could ask what the seller has done to mitigate his loss.

 

The seller hasnt lost anything (other than his listing fee) and he still has his mobile shed.

 

Why on earth does he think a court is going to order someone to buy it?

 

.....and what rubbish POCs.

[legalpickle]

Please can the OP post up a copy of his defence?

 

This looks like a bunch of codswallop, and I'd want to claim costs if I was the OP. Pretty good chance of success for the OP here!

 

How I wish I had time on my hands and Dartford wasn't so far away from Mancyland! If it wasn't my burpday this Thursday and this wasn't so far away I'd come along for the laugh!

[Mossycat]

Subbing because I want to see the result of this one

 

Mossy