Breastfeeding laws..

[My Real Name]

Fact: Websites are NOT above the law

No, they are not. Although that is not relevant here.

 

No forum or website can do what they want, you might want to look at this CAG forum being sued for libel, as a wake up call to your idiocy ...

No they cannot. But this is not relevant.

 

ALL corporations are liable to legislation & prosecution, in ANY country they operate in.

By and large, yes. Although this is not relevant here.

 

& yes anyone has a right to expressing themselves as they SEE FIT, if it doesnt contravene current law or regulations

There's no such right in law in the UK by constitution, although you might claim that right exists by convention. Irrespectively, that right only extends as far as the rights of others. In this case, it extends as far as the right of Facebook to not have to host those photos.

 

Facebook or anyone have NO rights whatsoever in VIOLATING the OP's right to post as SHE SEE'S FIT, as she is in no way violating current law

They have every right. In fact, they have the same rights that you state in the paragraph above this one.

 

She can feed her child as is her right, & post as she likes, as is her right

No - that the OP can feed her child as she sees fit goes without saying. However, she enjoys no right by default of using someone else's service to host photos of her doing that.

[My Real Name]

Several posts in this thread have been moderated. A seasoned debate can take place without the need to exchange insults. Whilst we are discussing the website rules, please refer to our forum rules here.

 

Continued breaches will result in moderation of member's accounts.

 

DeathbyCrayons - apologies if you have had to witness the hijacking of your thread.

If you're going to arbitrarily remove posts, at least show some consistency in how you do so.

 

This post is blatantly abusive:

 

a wake up call to your idiocy ...

 

And has already been deleted once.

Edited January 8, 2010 by My Real Name

[My Real Name]

That's the whole point!! That they SHOULDN'T place it in a 'nudity' category, as it's not nudity, obscene, etc. That's the while point of my post.

As I pointed out earlier, there is a puritanical streak in Facebook - it originated in Massachusetts, one of the puritan strongholds of the 17th century.

[barracad]

What puzzles me is if, as has been said, you can't just stumble across pictures but actually have to seek them out? And then be offended and protest they're offensive? I'm not a 'Facebooker' and it's this what I can't understand.

 

If you post photos onto Facebook then by default they will appear on all your friends' 'feed' on their homepage so anybody who's on your friends list will see the pictures with all their other updates.

 

Of course both the person posting the pictures, and their friends can adjust their settings in various ways - but as a default the above is what happens.

[Hammy1962]

Thanks all for your imput.

 

Unfortunately, my input was 'moderated' by a humourless human hiding behind his cagbot.

 

Hammy

[danielr]

Facebook or anyone have NO rights whatsoever in VIOLATING the OP's right to post as SHE SEE'S FIT, as she is in no way violating current law

yes, they do. it's in their terms and conditions. which you agree to before you post any content on the site.

 

For example, I moderate a computer forum, we edit posts on a daily basis removing inappropriate picture, links, even getting rid of things that people say.

 

There is no assumed right to put whatever you like onto the internet, especially onto a site owned by someone else. there is not even a right to host anything you like on a site that you own yourself (as you may have to agree to terms and conditions of your hosting provider) and even if you own the hosting equipment yourself there may still be terms of what you could host attached to your internet connection provider.

 

The fact remains that if you don't like the terms and conditions of a site then you just have to go else where.

 

The privilege to post content, (whether that be pictures, or words) onto someone else's site is dependant on you abiding by their terms and conditions.

 

To illustrate the point I could write a massive list of nasty words here, that would result in my post getting edited, and my account being banned from this site. not because it's illegal to swear, or to write down naughty words on the internet, just because the owners of the site don't like it. and I've agreed not to do it by being here.

[roony]

Theres no denying, a site can take down material, but if they do so, they're open to legal action

 

 

 

Theyre also liable for their terms & condition, which HAVE to conform to legislation & regulations

 

 

If the reason for taking down of material, or ANY other acts, which violates a persons rights under legislation or current law, theyre open to legal action.

 

 

If a forum posts libellous material, theyre open to libel, if they violate a persons rights theyre open to legal action.

 

 

You CANNOT use terms & conditions & contracts to break the law, or violate a persons rights.

[danielr]

if I were a moderator here I'd probably remove your post just to prove a point...

 

but I don't need to

Several posts in this thread have been moderated*. A seasoned debate can take place without the need to exchange insults. Whilst we are discussing the website rules, please refer to our forum rules here**.

 

Continued breaches will result in moderation of member's accounts***.

*edited, things deleted and removed from them

**rules, which you have to abide by to post here

***you will lose your ability to post on the site for continued breaking the rules.

 

I'm sure the forum owners are looking forward to the legal action that you plan to bring because they deleted some of your posts in this thread.

 

 

as I said before, you don't get an automatic right to free speech on the internet on a site owned by someone else. regardless of what country you have or the laws within that country.

for example in America they have a constitutional right to free speech but that doesn't stop me deleting posts on the forum I moderate that are deemed "unsuitable for all the family". -even though the servers are hosted in America, and the members posting bad stuff are in America.

 

playing devils advocate...

Facebook don't allow pictures of breastfeeding, one would imagine that the reason for this is that pictures can be shared with friends and family but there are no restrictions on what friends and family you can have.

for example, I'm friends with my young niece, if I put pictures of children being breastfed on there they will be visible to all my friends, including my young niece, who would then have to ask her parents what's happening in that picture.

 

To say that your pictures are only visible by your friends as well isn't strictly true, you can choose to share your pictures will all and sundry if you so wish, so pictures would be moderated on the basis that they may be shared with all even if they are not.

 

so it might not be just my niece seeing the pictures it could be everyone. and not everybody wants to teach their kids about babies and the best baby nutrition, certainly for my own child I would rather that it was my choice of when to teach my kids about the fats of life and associated items and acts rather than they got glimpses of it on the internet and came asking questions. -or worse, didn't ask questions.

 

the fact remains that in order to use a site or service provided by somebody else you agree to terms and conditions of use.

 

these terms may not be concurrent with how you want to lead your life, in which case the best thing to do is find an alternative site. where the terms and conditions attached to use are different.

[My Real Name]

Theres no denying, a site can take down material, but if they do so, they're open to legal action

Likewise, they are open to legal action if they do not.

 

How is this relevant in this thread?

 

Theyre also liable for their terms & condition, which HAVE to conform to legislation & regulations

Which legislation & regulations would those be then?

 

If the reason for taking down of material, or ANY other acts, which violates a persons rights under legislation or current law, theyre open to legal action.

Which rights would those be then?

 

If a forum posts libellous material, theyre open to libel,

That's sort of true. In this regard, the owners of the forum could be construed as being publishers. A precedent was set with Demon Internet, whereby liability for defamation was incurred once the publisher neglected to act on notification that defamatory material had been published.

 

There is also a school of thought (per Justice Eady) that defamation on a forum, such as this, would be slander, not libel.

 

if they violate a persons rights theyre open to legal action.

Again - which rights?

 

You CANNOT use terms & conditions & contracts to break the law, or violate a persons rights.

How has this happened in the example given at the top of this thread?

 

How is anything that you have written relevant?

[danielr]

If the reason for taking down of material, or ANY other acts, which violates a persons rights under legislation or current law, theyre open to legal action.

I have a web server. can you please explain what fundamental right you have to use it?

 

-I ask this because hosting is expensive, and if I have a fundamental right to use anyone else's servers and connection however I like I'm going to have a word with Microsoft and tell them that they have to let me put my content there, and they have to foot the bill for the associated hosting.

-actually, that's a lie. I ask it as a joke, to make you think, the answer is that you have no fundamental right to use my property as you see fit.

 

and if I open my server up so that the public can access it can you explain what right you have to use it in *whatever way you like* then?

 

 

I can arbitrarily decide to disallow anyone I like from using my server because they have no fundamental right to be there.

 

 

facebook can arbitrarily decide to delete pictures, content or accounts if they want to, because it's there server, not yours, and your only right to be there using their server is by their invitation.

[deathbycrayons]

if I put pictures of children being breastfed on there they will be visible to all my friends, including my young niece, who would then have to ask her parents what's happening in that picture.

 

This just proves a point I'm trying to make - breastfeeding should be considered normal by everyone and your young neice, at 13 or older should know what breastfeeding is. (you have to be 13 to join facebook).

This is what I'm trying to get through to people - breastfeeding is just a normal part of life that shouldn't raise questions. Would your young neice ask her parents what's going on in a picture of a baby being bottlefed?

[Maggie_moo]

This just proves a point I'm trying to make - breastfeeding should be considered normal by everyone and your young neice, at 13 or older should know what breastfeeding is. (you have to be 13 to join facebook).

This is what I'm trying to get through to people - breastfeeding is just a normal part of life that shouldn't raise questions. Would your young neice ask her parents what's going on in a picture of a baby being bottlefed?

 

I agree. I cannot see how, even pictures, are obscene or offensive, and if so why? Breasts are primarily for feeding a baby. *Simples*

[My Real Name]

Yes. But - Facebook are well within their rights, and are not diminishing the OP's rights, by not allowing the photos to he hosted on their servers, however misguided that decision may be.

 

The only option available to the OP is to lobby Facebook to allow such picture to be hosted - there is no remedy available in law.

 

There's nothing wrong with breastfeeding. There's nothing wrong with photographs of it. There's nothing wrong with showing those photos. There is, however, something wrong with compelling someone to display those photos on your behalf, against their wishes.

[danielr]

I did just write another post to try to explain how:

 

I have no problems with people showing pictures of breast feeding.

 

personally, I don't particularly want to see it, but that's ok because I'm old enough to accept what's going on and click next photo.

 

but there are other people in the world who are offended by this. I don't really see a problem with facebook "pandering" to these people and keeping them happy.

 

I don't understand what's wrong with respecting the decision and the modesty of those that don't want to see the pictures, and if you really want to share these photos with friends and family using either email or an alternative image host, like photo bucket of flickr

 

(but then I deleted the long post and made this short one instead)

[danielr]

This is what I'm trying to get through to people - breastfeeding is just a normal part of life that shouldn't raise questions. Would your young neice ask her parents what's going on in a picture of a baby being bottlefed?

I missed this.... but let me explain.

 

a very young child/baby knows that milk comes from breasts, and a young child/baby (that has been breastfed) will want for a breast, (to the point of sometimes exposing the mother in public whilst grappling with them) -as I'm sure you know.

 

but as a child grows up infant amnesia means that they will inevitably forget these things. so when a child reaches the age of say five or more. they won't know for a fact that milk comes from a breast, but they will be fully aufait with the knowledge that milk can be placed in a cup of a bottle and can be drank from this device.

 

so in answer to the question. no a child won't question how it is that a child is drinking from a bottle. but a child will need to question why a child is drinking from an organ on a person.

 

and that question can open up a rather much larger subject.

and as I said before, it is up to the individual parent when they should want to teach their children certain aspects of biology, not up to the internet, or other people's photo albums on a social networking site.

[deathbycrayons]

Here is a link to the world alliance for breastfeeding action.

http://www.waba.org.my/

 

Notice the section about facebook

 

The section about the mosaic, you have to scroll down.

Edited January 14, 2010 by deathbycrayons
added info..

[deathbycrayons]

The Other Paper > Front > Facebook angers area breast-feeders