Why no news coverage in the media re manchester test case judgements last week?

[tedney]

words to the effect that this should stop all "loop holes" in avoiding debts. It is probably available on the BBC listen again service!

[gyos]

words to the effect that this should stop all "loop holes" in avoiding debts. It is probably available on the BBC listen again service!

 

Not yet. Just checked.

 

Looks like the bloke who is saying that is the one who wrote the article on MSE.

 

BBC News - Banks 'win' credit card ruling

 

Banks 'win' credit card ruling

 

BBC Radio 4's Money Box

 

Saturday, 2 January 2010 at 1204 GMT On Radio 4 and Online

 

Banks have won a partial victory against some credit card customers who have been trying to avoid paying their debts.

 

Claims management companies have argued that a debt cannot be enforced without a copy of the original credit card agreement.

But the High Court in Manchester has ruled that banks need only provide a "reconstituted" copy of the original loan agreement.

 

Money Box is joined by Guy Anker, news editor of the website MoneySavingExpert.com, who explains what this ruling means.

[gyos]

Latest MoneyBox on this page:

 

BBC - Podcasts - Money Box

 

[angry cat]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2674262.html

[PriorityOne]

The BBC is also Government funded, so to speak... so it's highly unlikely that you'll ever get an unbiased report from them.

[spartathisis]

I never was one for conspiracy theories, but since finding CAG and seeing the link between the financial ins and the courts etc "I believe"!!

 

I have just read George Orwells 1984 again, 20+ years since last time, and didnt realise how close he was to the state we are in at the moment. The stuff he wrote about 60yrs ago is all slotting into place and its worrying

[PriorityOne]

I never was one for conspiracy theories, but since finding CAG and seeing the link between the financial ins and the courts etc "I believe"!!

 

I have just read George Orwells 1984 again, 20+ years since last time, and didnt realise how close he was to the state we are in at the moment. The stuff he wrote about 60yrs ago is all slotting into place and its worrying

 

Yes it is...

 

We're also drip-fed a diet of celebrity/wannabe claptrap through TV/the media that aims to avert our minds from it all (in my opnion), but that's another thread...

[spartathisis]

Maybe the revolution starts here? I have decided I want to fight "The man", just got to find him!

[Having_A_Knightmare]

I actually think I'm screwed with the judges comments in Issue 5 - in effect the prescribed terms can be 'contained' in separate pages so long as they are referred to on the signature page.

 

Please tell me this is for the purpose of section 78 only and not for enforement!!!

 

HAK

[lickthewallfatboy]

The BBC is also Government funded, so to speak... so it's highly unlikely that you'll ever get an unbiased report from them.

 

the BBC are the media wing of noolabour

 

it's so blatant now that it's beyond satire

[gyos]

the BBC are the media wing of noolabour

 

it's so blatant now that it's beyond satire

 

Yes. But the "expert" that BBC MoneyBox report featured was the news editor from MSE.

 

Forgive me, but I did expect better from them.

 

(Problem a naive expectation in hindsight)

[lickthewallfatboy]

MSE aren't the "experts" they would like everyone to think

 

some of the advice they have given on banking issues in the past is downright misleading at the very least

[credit allergy]

Having been succesful at a county court last year I find all the previous posts quite interesting. Whilst researching my case I read all the relevant posts etc. I even consulted a solicitor and debt helplines. The thing I learnt is that the final decision is yours and nobody can predict the case outcome. For every stated case in support there will be another one against. The secret is to choose your point and stick to it not go off at different tangents. Do not get wrapped up in consipiricay theories unless you want to sell a book or make a documentary. The success is in making your point, in court if neccesary this is why the legal skill of mooting is practised on legal courses. So to conclude read and digest everything you can because remember you will know your case inside out whilst your opponents legal team will be dealing with many other cases and other distractions. So research , prepare and stick to one point. Hope this helps. My success was a £22,000 refund of an ERC.

[basa48]

Please tell me this is for the purpose of section 78 only and not for enforement!!!

 

HAK

 

Not sure what you're asking here.

 

As far as I can determine the judge in answer to Issue 5 where it was in relation to s61(1)(a), the question was:

 

"Does the document signed by the debtor contain the 'prescribed terms' for the purposes of s61 and/or s127(3) if:

1. they are referred to on the signed page
   
2. where that sheet is attached to the signed page
   
3. where that sheet was separate but attached to the signed page
   

"

 

The judgement was contained in paras 173-181, which in essence says that:

 

1. Where the signature and PTs appear on separate pieces of paper, this is a question of substance not form.
   
2. It is hard to see the (application) form and attached terms as anything other than one document.
   
3. On the assumed facts they (the PTs) were as much contained in the signed document as if they were on the reverse.
   

 

[credit allergy]

Yes but in the case of old debts surely if they are contained on seperate documents there has to be a link. I have received Tand Cs but there is no link to the application form or any other document purporting to be a cca UNDER THE 1974 ACT.

[babybear39]

IMO the documents should be linked in some way...

[basa48]

Yes but in the case of old debts surely if they are contained on seperate documents there has to be a link. I have received Tand Cs but there is no link to the application form or any other document purporting to be a cca UNDER THE 1974 ACT.

 

The judge seems to suggest that if the form or application makes any reference to terms & conditions (whether attached or separate) that would be enough for him to consider them as part of the one (agreement) document.

[spartathisis]

Discussion on this now moved here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/240186-dissecting-manchester-test-case-7.html

[credit allergy]

what about the stated case to the contrary?

[angry cat]

IMO the documents should be linked in some way...

 

To what?

 

A voucher for a free croissant and a cup of coffee.

[babybear39]

Ha

[seklof]

can i ask one question here regading this case

di he win or not

sorry to butt in but i have a case exactly the same being dealt with by solicitors

[kaz3571]

hi

please see my thread here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?228617-kaz3571-V-Cabot/page3

 

i have lost this case today cabot admitted the original was destroyed all they had was an mosly unreadable copy the jadge said due to wakesmans ruling it was all they needed. i argued that wakesman only dealt with a sec 78 req for copy of agreement but he was having none of it. he said if wakesman ruled that a copy was all that was needed for sec 78 req thren that was all that was needed in court. Good luck to all the people on here that are pinning their hopes on the original agreement not being held as i believe many of them will now lose.

kaz

[babybear39]

I am deeply concerned by your ruling.

 

This has to be challenged. It's making a complete mockery of ANY bloody laws!!!!

[B3rty]

Bit late now I know but did you present 127(3) backed up by Wilson v Hurstanger and Wilson v FCT which is from a higher court?