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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Are overdrafts covered by cca's


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Update .... on this ...

 

With all the confusion, I wrote to experian to ask why they have registered a current account on my credit record, with a payment profile. As I thought that only regulated debts were shown on an individuals credit profile.

 

Perhaps they could explain ?

 

This is the response I received today ...

 

"Our Ref: xxxxxxxxxxx

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your email, which we received on 22 June 2010.

 

RE: Your credit report

 

SUMMARY:

 

- I am not qualified to offer you legal advice, but as I understand it, overdrafts are covered by sections of the Consumer Credit Act, since they are a form of credit.

 

- This is why your credit report only shows information about overdraft balances and not the amount you are in credit.

 

 

FURTHER INFORMATION:

 

If you have a question about your creditworthiness, your CreditExpert membership includes a free ?Frequently Asked Questions? feature.

 

If you would like to look at this, you will need to log in at Free Credit Report, Credit Rating Check & Fraud Alerts from Experian Credit Expert and go to the FAQ?s tab at the top of the page.

 

Kind regards

 

Howard I Taylor

Customer Service Officer

 

Customer Support Centre

Experian Interactive

 

 

Finally, did you know that our website can answer questions and queries about your credit report? Simply go to Experian - Most commonly asked questions for help and advice about your credit report, including how to understand it and improve it.

 

Experian Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with registered number 653331 and whose registered office is at Landmark House, Experian Way, NG2 Business Park, Nottingham, NG80 1ZZ"

 

End of the arguement .... maybe ????

 

Edited by robinredbreast
typo
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RR

 

I would look at the letter on the GLC web site (after the SC ruling) and see if there are any points in it worth incorporating in your suggested letter.

 

Good luck!

 

BD

 

 

Can someone post the letter on here might be useful and save folk time.

We live in an unmoderated country why should the net be any different?

Bring back free speech we miss it!

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Interesting ....especially in the light of the defence that the bank has put up in the Sharp case that ''the banking contract was not covered by CCA 1974'' and that therfore overdrafts are not covered...if not covered then why report to Experian...it's all so hypocritical and could that letter not be used as some form of evidence presentable in the Sharp case....

 

m2ae

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Interesting ....especially in the light of the defence that the bank has put up in the Sharp case that ''the banking contract was not covered by CCA 1974'' and that therfore overdrafts are not covered...if not covered then why report to Experian...it's all so hypocritical and could that letter not be used as some form of evidence presentable in the Sharp case....

 

m2ae

 

I'm not sure it could be used at this stage but i'll cut and paste in this afternoons recess, unless someone beats me to it, or its been taken down.

We live in an unmoderated country why should the net be any different?

Bring back free speech we miss it!

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A thought occured to me ....

 

Don't creditors require your written authority to process your data with CRAs .... without exception ... ?????

 

What about demanding a copy from your bank as part of your complaint, together with a copy of the agreement as reqd under the CCA ?

 

Don't CRAs only record information regarding regulated agreements ... ? (correct me anyone if I'm wrong ... as I'm not 100% sure on that .. but thought I'd throw it in .. :p).

 

What with confirmation from the CRAs that ODs are partially regulated, your written authority required for processing data, and throw in a dodgy DN too (if you have one) ... may make them think twice with any court action ....

 

Worth a punt ? :rolleyes:

 

TB

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A thought occured to me ....

 

Don't creditors require your written authority to process your data with CRAs .... without exception ... ?????

 

TB

Not true, bullit point 6 of Data protection act schedule 2 allows unathorised processing of your data because:

it is for the pursuit of the legitimate interests of the data controller

 

By all means have a 30 minute free session with a lawyer to check if it`s a runner, only then threaten Court action.

 

Best of luck with your situation:-(

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi

 

sorry for hijacking thread, but am getting harrased by barclays re a current account that hasn't been used for reciving a salary for well over 6 years..it had a £900 overdraft and they contacted me at an address to say charges had taken this to over £1000. I arranged to pay £20 a month and then received this

 

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/sussex1/140710-1.jpg

 

the payments had hardly reduced debt but they did statte overdraft now agreed at £1030. I couldn't make any payemtns and now have had this termination notice

 

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/sussex1/1-1.jpg

 

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/sussex1/2-1.jpg

 

letter dated 6th July giving till 20th to rectify.

 

My first question is as to whether this is properly executed as there seems no allowance for postage as with CCA's on credit cards?

 

secondly I am now gettin bombarded with calls the last of which was offering me a loan to pay it (which I can't afford to pay). Isn't this sgainst the usual guidlines?

 

I would appreciate anyones thoughts on the above as well as to how best to proceed here.

 

apologies again for posting on someone elses thread

 

thanks in advance

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Hi David. I am in a similar with HSBC. You need to write to Barclays pointing out that whether your agreement is covered by the CCA 1974 or not, you request a true copy of the executed customer retail agreement, a true copy of the original overdraft agreement and a true copy of the facility letter.

 

I have been learning quite a bit about this just recently. The issue, for an overdraft, is if Barclays can evidence proof that they have complied with the OFT's Determination exempting overdrafts from the CCA 1974. If they can't prove this (ie your agreements and a copy of the Determination they signed) then the overdraft is technically invalid.

 

Of course, Barcrap will have signed the Determination but you are within your rights to put them to proof and to get the info you require about the agreements. Try an SAR as well.

 

Finally, report them to the Lending Standards Board if they persist in not sending you a true copy of the agreements. Also the FOS, who deal with individual issues (the LSB just investigate banks internally, but if enough mud sticks...!)

Mozzone

_______________

Taking on the bloodsuckers

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from reading this thread i understand that overdrafts are only partially covered by the CCA.

 

In a 'nutshell' can somebody please advise the following,

 

If a creditor cannot produce a copy of an overdraft agreement, can payment be enforced in a court of law?

 

thanks BAB

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from reading this thread i understand that overdrafts are only partially covered by the CCA.

 

In a 'nutshell' can somebody please advise the following,

 

If a creditor cannot produce a copy of an overdraft agreement, can payment be enforced in a court of law?

 

thanks BAB

 

There are no certainties in the british justice system (just read around a few of the threads on here!) but if argued correctly a lack of "facilitation letter" alongside other key docs being missed from the evidence "should" be enough to stop enforcement subject to the "judge lottery" etc etc.

 

(Think thats enough use of quote marks :-))

 

S.

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Banks must provide a customer with something in writing at the time the agreement is concluded details of the credit limit if any, the annual rate of interest and any charges available and the process for terminating the agreement. Typically banks make such information readily available via a variety of media on an ongoing basis, and therein lies the problem. They send out 6 monthly facility letters.

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Banks must provide a customer with something in writing at the time the agreement is concluded details of the credit limit if any, the annual rate of interest and any charges available and the process for terminating the agreement. Typically banks make such information readily available via a variety of media on an ongoing basis, and therein lies the problem. They send out 6 monthly facility letters.

 

well I would argue that if we apply carey vs hsbc to that then all variations to that original facilitation letter must be provided in response to the s78 as well.

 

S.

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well I would argue that if we apply carey vs hsbc to that then all variations to that original facilitation letter must be provided in response to the s78 as well.

 

S.

 

Totally, yeah.

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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Hi everyone:)

 

Sorry to jump on board here, but I'm about to send the CCA request under s78 to LTSB for an o/d and wondered if anyone could advise which address I should use please?

 

I was thinking either the registered office or 125 Colmore Row, Birmingham?

 

Many thanks for this very useful thread, btw ;)

 

Landy x

LTSB PPI on various loans (current/settled) - Refunded inc 8%

 

MBNA 1 Charges - Refunded inc CI

 

MBNA 1 PPI - Refunded

 

MBNA 2 Charges - Refunded inc 8%

 

MBNA 2 PPI - Refunded

 

MBNA 2 Accident Ins - Refunded

 

Swift Advances (settled) Mortgage Charges -Partially refunded

 

Swift Advances (settled) Mortgage PPI - Refunded inc CI & 8%

 

Sainsburys (settled) Loan PPI - Refunded inc CI +8%

 

Sainsburys (closed) Card Charges - Refunded inc CI + 8%

 

M&S Money (closed) Card Charges - Refunded inc CI

 

M&S Money (closed) Card PPI - Refunded inc 8%

 

Direct Line (settled) Loan PPI - Refunded inc CI + 8%

 

Debenhams Card (closed) PPI - Refunded inc 8%

 

Swift Mortgage Charges -Refunded

 

Hitachi Finance (closed) Charges - Refunded

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thanks shadow.

 

can you or anyone tell me of any legal cases won by creditors or debtors so i can read up on the cases. i feel i may be taken to court soon over a 28k barclays overdraft and need all the advice to fight my corner i can get. in short, i cca'd them, no response, then defaulted them, now i got their dca chasing me. thanks

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thanks shadow.

 

can you or anyone tell me of any legal cases won by creditors or debtors so i can read up on the cases. i feel i may be taken to court soon over a 28k barclays overdraft and need all the advice to fight my corner i can get. in short, i cca'd them, no response, then defaulted them, now i got their dca chasing me. thanks

 

There are a few cases on here where the banks just back down when challanged but thats for small amounts (less than 1k etc), your amount would normally mean a multi-track case which would be very very expensive to lose due to court costs. If you are going to challenge you may want to seek legal advice.

 

Either way start a thread in the legal section for others to advise.

 

S.

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well had an update today on one off the acc's, after a bit of letter tennis. Barclays can't provide DLC/hillesdean with the required paperwork, so the acc's on hold with nothing else going to happen unless the correct doc's appear. (never gonna happen)

 

and the default fell off the credit file last month as well :D

 

 

just had the same letter as above re our other account,

 

thats 2 OD debts with hillesdean/DLC, they were to dense to even look at what the actual debt was for,(even referred to it as a loan acc at one point ) so they have given up for now as they can't get any paperwork :-D

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so....

1. They wont give an agreement as they say its not covered by the CCA 1974

 

2. They issue a DN which says its covered by the CCA 1974 via sections 76[1] 98[1]

 

THEY ARE SO TWISTED those banks

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“PART VA CURRENT ACCOUNT OVERDRAFTS

 

Information to be provided on a current account agreement

 

74A.—(1) This section applies to a current account agreement where there is the possibility that the account-holder may be allowed to overdraw on the current account without a pre-arranged overdraft or exceed a pre-arranged overdraft limit.

(2) The current account agreement must include the following information at the time it is made—

(a) the rate of interest charged on the amount by which an account-holder overdraws on the current account or exceeds the pre-arranged overdraft limit,

(b) any conditions applicable to that rate,

© any reference rate on which that rate is based,

(d) information on any changes to the rate of interest (including the periods that the rate applies and any conditions or procedure applicable to changing that rate), and

(e) any other charges payable by the debtor under the agreement (and the conditions under which those charges may be varied).

(3) The account-holder must be informed at least annually of the information in subsection (2).

(4) For the purposes of subsections (2) and (3) where different rates of interest are charged in different circumstances, the creditor must provide the information in subsection (2)(a) to (d) in respect of each rate.

(5) Subsection (3) does not apply where the overdraft or excess would be secured on land. ”.

22. After section 74A (information to be provided on a current account agreement), as inserted by regulation 19, insert—

“Information to be provided on significant overdrawing without prior arrangement

 

74B.—(1) Where—

(a) the holder of a current account overdraws on the account without a pre-arranged overdraft, or exceeds a pre-arranged overdraft limit, for a period exceeding one month,

(b) the amount of that overdraft or excess is significant throughout that period, and

© the account-holder has not been informed in writing of the matters mentioned in subsection (2) within that period,

the account-holder must be informed in writing of those matters without delay.

(2) The matters referred to in subsection (1) are—

(a) the fact that the current account is overdrawn or the overdraft limit has been exceeded,

(b) the amount of that overdraft or excess,

© the rate of interest charged on it, and

(d) any other charges payable by the debtor in relation to it (including any penalties and any interest on those charges).

(3) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) the amount of the overdraft or excess is to be treated as significant if—

(a) the account-holder is liable to pay a charge for which he would not otherwise be liable,

(b) the overdraft or excess is likely to have an adverse effect on the debtor’s ability to receive further credit (including any effect on the information about the debtor held by a credit reference agency), or

© it otherwise appears significant, having regard to all the circumstances.

(4) Where the overdraft or excess is secured on land, subsection (1)(a) is to be read as if the reference to one month were a reference to three months.”.

23. In section 77A (statements to be provided in relation to fixed-sum credit agreements) after subsection (8) insert—

“(9) This section does not apply where the holder of a current account overdraws on the account without a pre-arranged overdraft or exceeds a pre-arranged overdraft limit.”.

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