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    • Thank you very much for your help. To answer your two questions:  1. I did not send a CPR request when the Claim Form arrived. 2. They did send a claim form, in March 2023. This is the document from which I copied the particulars of their claim.  
    • Thanks. That's a lot to wade through.  Will get on to it. Two other quick questions. Did you send them a CPR request when the claim form arrived? Are you sure they didn't send a Letter of Claim before they sued you?
    • Hi there, Here is the sticky filled out as best as possible:  Which Court have you received the claim from? MCOL (County Court Business Centre, Northampton) Name of the Claimant: Uk Parking Control Limited Claimants Solicitors: DCB Legal Date of issue: March 2023 Following events: — DQ sent to me July 2023 — I filed a DQ in September 2023 — My claim was transferred to [my local court] September 2023 — Received Notice of Allocation to Small Claims Track (Hearing) including date for hearing in April 2024 — Witness statement due by May 14 — Claimant must pay court fees by May 17 — Court hearing on June 18   What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? Please type out their particulars of claim (verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down. 1. The defendant is indebted to the claimant for a Parking Charge issued at [x] issued to vehicle [__] at Walcot Yard, Walcot Road, Bath, Ba1 5bg. 2. The PCN details are [___]. 3. The PCN(s) was issued on private land owned or managed by C. The vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms on Cs signs (the Contract), this incurring the PCNs. 4. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. D is liable as the driver or keeper. Despite requests, the PCN is outstanding. The Contract entitles C to damages.  AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS 1. £160 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages. 2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of [x]p until judgement or sooner payment. 3. Costs and court fees   What is the value of the claim? ~260 Amount Claimed ~170 court fees ~35 legal rep fees ~50 Total Amount  ~260   Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? No   Did you receive a letter of Claim With A reply Pack wanting I&E etc about 1mth before the claimform? No Here is the defence I filed:  DEFENCE 1. The parking charges referred to in this claim did not arise from any agreement of terms. The charge and the claim was an unexpected shock. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all. It is denied that any conduct by the driver was a breach of any prominent term and it is denied that this Claimant (understood to have a bare licence as managers) has standing to sue or form contracts in their own name. Liability is denied, whether or not the Claimant is claiming 'keeper liability', which is unclear from the Particulars. The facts as known to the Defendant: 2. It is admitted that on the material date the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question, but liability is denied. 3. While working at a nearby premises, [___] the Defendant was informed by the manager that they had an informal verbal agreement with the developer and owner operator of [___], which supposedly allowed them to park there. Based on this information, the Defendant parked their car there in good faith. The Defendant was not aware of any restrictions or limitations to this agreement, and therefore believed that they had the right to park there without penalty. 4. The Defendant avers that the Claimant failed to serve a Notice to Keeper compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Consequently, the claimant cannot transfer liability for this charge to the Defendant as keeper of the vehicle. 5. The Particulars of Claim ('POC') appear to be in breach of CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7, and fail to "state all facts necessary for the purpose of formulating a complete cause of action”. 6. The Defendant is unable, on the basis of the POC, to understand with certainty what case is being pursued. 7. The POC are entirely inadequate, in that they fail to particularise (a) the contractual term(s) relied upon; (b) the specifics of any alleged breach of contract; and (c) how the purported and unspecified 'damages' arose and the breakdown of the exaggerated quantum. 8. The claim has been issued via Money Claims Online and, as a result, is subject to a character limit for the Particulars of Claim section of the Claim Form. The fact that generic wording appears to have been applied has obstructed any semblance of clarity. The Defendant trusts that the court will agree that a claim pleaded in such generic terms lacks the required details and requires proper particularisation in a detailed document within 14 days, per 16PD.3 9. The guidance for completing Money Claims Online confirms this and clearly states: "If you do not have enough space to explain your claim online and you need to serve extra, more detailed particulars on the defendant, tick the box that appears after the statement 'you may also send detailed particulars direct to the defendant.'" 10. No further particulars have been filed and to the Defendant's knowledge, no application asking the court service for more time to serve and/or relief from sanctions has been filed either. 11. In view of it having been entirely within the Claimant's Solicitors' gift to properly plead the claim at the outset and the claim being for a sum, well within the small claims limit, such that the Defendant considers it disproportionate and at odds with the overriding objective (in the context of a failure by the Claimant to properly comply with rules and practice directions) for a Judge to throw the erring Claimant a lifeline by ordering further particulars (to which a further defence might be filed, followed by further referral to a Judge for directions and allocation) the court is respectfully invited to strike this claim out. 13. Whilst the new Code and Act is not retrospective, it was enacted due to the failure of the self-serving BPA & IPC Codes of Practice. The Minister is indisputably talking about existing (not future) cases when declaring that 'recovery' fees were 'designed to extort money'. A clear steer for the Courts which it is hoped overrides mistakes made in a few appeal cases that the parking industry desperately rely upon (Britannia v Semark-Jullien, One Parking Solution v Wilshaw, Vehicle Control Services v Ward and Vehicle Control Services v Percy). 14. Far from being persuasive, regrettably these one-sided appeals saw Circuit Judges led in one direction by Counsel for parking firms, and the litigant-in-person consumers lacked the wherewithal to appeal. In case this Claimant tries to rely upon these, the Defendant avers that errors were made in every case. Evidence was either overlooked (including signage discrepancies in Wilshaw, where the Judge was also oblivious to the BPA Code of Practice and the DVLA KADOE requirement for landowner authority) or the Judge inexplicably sought out and quoted from the wrong Code altogether (Percy). In Ward, a few seconds' emergency stop out of the control of the driver was unfairly aligned with the admitted parking contract in Beavis. Those learned Judges were not in possession of the same level of information as the DLUHC, whose incoming statutory Code of Practice now clarifies such matters as a definition of 'parking' as well as consideration and grace periods and minor matters such as 'keying errors' or 'fluttering tickets/permits' where a PCN should not have been issued at all, or should have been cancelled in the pre-action dispute phase. POFA and CRA breaches 15. Pursuant to Schedule 4 paragraph 4(5) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ('the POFA') the sum claimed exceeds the maximum potentially recoverable from a registered keeper, even in cases where a firm may have complied with other POFA requirements (adequate signage, Notice to Keeper wording/dates, and a properly communicated 'relevant contract/relevant obligation'). If seeking keeper/hirer liability - unclear from the POC - the Claimant is put to strict proof of full compliance and liability transferred. 16. Claiming costs on an indemnity basis is unfair, per the Unfair Contract Terms Guidance (CMA37, para 5.14.3), the Government guidance on the Consumer Rights Act 2015 ('CRA'). The CRA introduced new requirements for 'prominence' of both contract terms and 'consumer notices'. In a parking context, this includes signage and all notices, letters and other communications intended to be read by the consumer. 17. Section 71 creates a duty upon courts to consider the test of fairness, including (but not limited to) whether all terms/notices were unambiguously and conspicuously brought to the attention of a consumer. Signage must be prominent, plentiful, well placed and lit, and all terms unambiguous and obligations clear. The Defendant avers that the CRA has been breached due to unfair/unclear terms and notices, pursuant to s62 and paying due regard to examples 6, 10, 14 & 18 of Schedule 2 and the requirements for fair/open dealing and good faith. ParkingEye v Beavis is distinguished (lack of legitimate interest/prominence of terms) 18. ParkingEye overcame the possibility of their £85 charge being dismissed as punitive, however the Supreme Court clarified that ‘the penalty rule is plainly engaged’ in parking cases, which must each be determined on their own facts. That 'unique' case met a commercial justification test, and took into account the prominent yellow/black uncluttered signs with £85 in the largest/boldest text. Rather than causing other parking charges to be automatically justified, the Beavis case facts set a high bar that this Claimant has failed to reach. 19. Paraphrasing from the Supreme Court, deterrence is likely to be penal if there is a lack of a 'legitimate interest' in performance extending beyond the prospect of compensation flowing directly from the alleged breach. The intention cannot be to punish a driver, nor to present them with hidden terms, unexpected/cumbersome obligations nor 'concealed pitfalls or traps'. 20. In the present case, the Claimant has fallen foul of those tests. The Claimant’s small signs have vague/hidden terms and a mix of small font, and are considered incapable of binding a driver. Consequently, it remains the Defendant’s position that no contract to pay an onerous 'penalty' was seen or agreed. Binding Court of Appeal authorities which are on all fours with a case involving unclear terms and a lack of ‘adequate notice’ of a parking charge, include: (i) Spurling v Bradshaw [1956] 1 WLR 461 (‘red hand rule’) and (ii) Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1970] EWCA Civ2, both leading authorities confirming that a clause cannot be incorporated after a contract has been concluded; and (iii) Vine v London Borough of Waltham Forest: CA 5 Apr 2000, where Ms Vine won because it was held that she had not seen the terms by which she would later be bound, due to "the absence of any notice on the wall opposite the parking space'' (NB: when parking operator Claimants cite Vine, they often mislead courts by quoting out of context, Roch LJ's words about the Respondent’s losing case, and not from the ratio). 21. Fairness and clarity of terms and notices are paramount in the statutory Code and this is supported by the BPA & IPC Trade Bodies. In November 2020's Parking Review, solicitor Will Hurley, CEO of the IPC, observed: "Any regulation or instruction either has clarity or it doesn’t. If it’s clear to one person but not another, there is no clarity. The same is true for fairness. Something that is fair, by definition, has to be all-inclusive of all parties involved – it’s either fair or it isn’t. The introduction of a new ‘Code of Practice for Parking’ provides a wonderful opportunity to provide clarity and fairness for motorists and landowners alike." Lack of standing or landowner authority, and lack of ADR 22. DVLA data is only supplied to pursue parking charges if there is an agreement flowing from the landholder (ref: KADOE rules). It is not accepted that this Claimant (an agent of a principal) has authority from the landowner to issue charges in this place in their own name. The Claimant is put to strict proof that they have standing to make contracts with drivers and litigate in their own name. 23. The Claimant failed to offer a genuinely independent Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR). The Appeals Annex in the new incoming statutory Code shows that genuine disputes such as this would see the charge cancelled, had a fair ADR existed. Whether or not a person engaged with it, the Claimant's consumer blame culture and reliance upon the industry's own 'appeals service' should not sway the court into a belief that a fair appeal was ever on offer. The rival Trade Bodies' time-limited and opaque 'appeals' services fail to properly consider facts or rules of law and reject almost any dispute: e.g. the IAS upheld appeals in a woeful 4% of decided cases (IPC's 2020 Annual Report). Conclusion 24. The claim is entirely without merit. The Defendant believes that it is in the public interest that claims like this should be struck out because knowingly enhanced parking claims like this one cause consumer harm on a grand scale. 25. There is ample evidence to support the view - long held by many District Judges - that these are knowingly exaggerated claims. For HMCTS to only disallow those costs in the tiny percentage of cases that reach hearings whilst other claims to continue to flood the courts unabated, is to fail hundreds of thousands of consumers who suffer CCJs or pay inflated amounts, in fear of intimidating pre-action threats. 26. In the matter of costs, the Defendant asks: (a) at the very least, for standard witness costs for attendance at Court, pursuant to CPR 27.14, and (b) for a finding of unreasonable conduct by this Claimant, seeking costs pursuant to CPR 46.5. 27. Attention is drawn specifically to the (often-seen from this industry) distinct possibility of an unreasonably late Notice of Discontinuance. Whilst CPR r.38.6 states that the Claimant is liable for the Defendant's costs after discontinuance (r.38.6(1)) this does not normally apply to claims allocated to the small claims track (r.38.6(3)). However, the White Book states (annotation 38.6.1): "Note that the normal rule as to costs does not apply if a claimant in a case allocated to the small claims track serves a notice of discontinuance although it might be contended that costs should be awarded if a party has behaved unreasonably (r.27.14(2)(dg))." Statement of Truth I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.
    • Hi, I was caught by the security guards today for shoplifting in John Lewis. I think total amount is about £500. They said they saw me on CCTV last week, I was freaked out so I admitted it. I know it’s awful… I cried as I was too scared and begged them pls don’t call the police. They took pics of me and wrote down my details from banking app as I didn’t have any id with me. I told them my difficulties that I was scammed £35k recently and I lost my job so I stole those things and sell them. I apologised and they said they won’t call the police but I’m banned and will receive letters from RLP for fines which including this time and the last time(I didn’t give back the goods I took last time). I know it’s very very bad, I feel shameful and so depressed so hopeless about everything happened. I wonder since it’s a lot of money, will they sue me, take me to the court, or will they change their mind to call the police when they check the cctv footage to check how much I owe them? I said sorry I really couldn’t afford the fine at this situation, they said it’s their job they can’t do anything. Later when I was out of the mall, the security guard said, I can call RLP to negotiate about the fee. Also I’m probably moving to another city in 2 months, so if they want to take me to court but I didn’t receive any letters what should I do… and the security guy told me it’s worse as I traveled to this city and stealing stuff. I’m home now but feeling awful, wish people could give me some advice, thank you very much.
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DLA stopped after ESA medical??***WON***


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Just a quick one hopefully.

 

My son's DLA was stopped and the reasons given was that he failed a IB medical, the doctor that saw him declared him fit to work, he never applied for IB it was ESA!

 

Now here is the thing, he wasnt examined and blatantly disregarded my son's specialists notes/letters. He wasnt caring about his ESA as he had been accepted to college before the desicion came through.

 

Now we are appealling with the help of the top Dermatologist in Scotland, but surely they cant say no to DLA on a work based medical.

 

Just because someone is disabled that doesnt stop you working, and a medical based on IB shouldnt count towards his DLA claim.

 

The question is how should he word his appeal?

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dont worry too much you need the lettefrom the specialist and your own doctor but also ask your doctor if he had already been contacted before the medical....here you must send in a subject to access reqest to the DWP and also ask for a full audit trail to be included in your SAR this will also help your appeal because you will see the reasons why and who asked or this medical..but also you must SAR ATOS ORIGON AND THIS IS WHERE YOU MAY FIND A DISCREPANCY AS IT COULD BE THE DECISION MAKER WHO HAS CHANGED THE DATA .... they have been known to interfere with medicals and if this has happened then it will mean a possible prosecution against the DWP and a claim for damages and stress you wil more likely win your appeal as over 69% win or figures close to that margin...

hope yhis helps

patrickq1

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Just a quick one hopefully.

 

My son's DLA was stopped and the reasons given was that he failed a IB medical, the doctor that saw him declared him fit to work, he never applied for IB it was ESA!

 

Now here is the thing, he wasnt examined and blatantly disregarded my son's specialists notes/letters. He wasnt caring about his ESA as he had been accepted to college before the desicion came through.

 

Now we are appealling with the help of the top Dermatologist in Scotland, but surely they cant say no to DLA on a work based medical.

 

Just because someone is disabled that doesnt stop you working, and a medical based on IB shouldnt count towards his DLA claim.

 

The question is how should he word his appeal?

 

Have they given any reasons for the decision? It is up to the decision maker to prove there has been a change of cirumstances. The criteria for DLA are different than either ESA or IB so it will be hard for them to justify this, if his entitlement to DLA was in question he should have been given an opportunity to put his case. Make sure he appeals within one month of the decision.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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the goverment changed the goal posts and allowed jobcentre plus to pick at random any claimant or so it seems they had me in three years running and twice in the last 16 months they failed me on the last two occassions fortunitely my surgeon who was to perform major atrerial surgery to my abdomen and both legs plus a heart by pass sent them a letter questioning the medical experiance of the doctor who did the all works test it turned out this person was not a doctor ....then the troubles begun for the manager of the dwp because the records dissapeared as well...still ongoing my cmplaint against the department...once you cross them you seem to be on their hit list well i am ...ive just been refused income support for housing benefit reason was i had a extension built in 1991 and they deemed it an unneccessary expenditure ? so ive just appealed ...gggrrr DWP seem to be a law unto themselves at times some little hittler no doubt huh ..

patrickq1

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Thanks guys, I now have my Mp involved along with 2 dermatologists and our own GP.

 

The reason's on his for was the form itself and the medical he had for IB!!

 

Our own GP hasnt had any letters from DWP. They are looking again at the decision but in the mean time we just have to wait they said.

 

My son has been in hospital all week, and he got home for the weekend, but he has to go back on Monday for at least another week for more specialist treatment as there is some parts of his body but mainly his feet and ankles that will not heal(open sores) and he has just been diagnosed with Arthritic Psoriasis as well.

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i think you may find that the first deciscion was an automated deciscion,though the DWP will deny this takes place and no deciscions are automated when in fact approx 40 per cent are due to the enormous backload of work now put on so few staff...due to cutbacks that started 3 years ago...

patrickq1

ps you want the full claim backdated do not listen to any excuse they can only backdate ex amount of weeks there have been enough legal cases to prove otherwise

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  • 1 month later...

They have looked again at the answer and came back saying he is still not entitled to anything!!

 

It is now in the hands of my MP, his specialist and I have an appointment with a benefits specialist at the CAB next week.

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Of course it was Post, my son had a medical for ESA, yet they stopped his DLA as they said he was fit for work. It states he had a medical for IB, not ESA, and since when does DLA have anything to do with IB!!!

 

He condition has gotten worse over the last few weeks as well, and he has developed an infection like coldsores all over, and there is a part near his eyes that may have affected his eyesight! This is due to his immunosuppressants.

 

Oh well lets just keep fighting them!

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Thank you Rae, it will be a long haul against them, but Im determined they wont get away with this, and so is my Son's dermatologist. I was very worried too as there is a motobility car involved, but Motobility have given us the car for another 6 months, so that is a great relief.

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Got another letter stating the reasons for declined DLA, and one of the reasons was a letter from his GP that they had requested 2 weeks ago. Now just by chance we were at the doctor's again today, and according to my son's doctor, the only form they have had from DLA and that was back in October, it was promptly returned by his GP stating exactly what is wrong with my son, and how immunosuppressants affect his body, and how bad his skin is.

 

So why should the DWP lie about a letter from my son's GP when they havent had one!!!

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Aw shucks, don't worry about the DWP. These sort of 'misunderstandings' are bound to crop up from time to time!

You're appealing so, just concentrate on gathering up your medical evidence for your son. With your GPs and dermatologists support - and any other healthcare professional you can think of - you'll be just fine.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Rae

Edited by RaeUK
typoo
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Of course it was Post, my son had a medical for ESA, yet they stopped his DLA as they said he was fit for work. It states he had a medical for IB, not ESA, and since when does DLA have anything to do with IB!!!

 

i tink you will find all tests through esa now effects all benefits,but like above the thing to do is to concentrate on your evidence and present this ,then afterwards you can demand an enquiry into what has transpired and why action was not taken with the evidence already presented....and then do a subject to access on both atos and the dwp

patrickq1

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  • 3 months later...

Got all the paperwork through today for the tribunal service and have spent a very interesting morning reading!!!

 

A letter from his specialist who has the title of 'Reader in Dermatology and Honorary Consultant' has written - I would consider his eczema to present a significant disability, he then goes on to write - It would be unusual for one month to go by without a signifigant flare up of the skin disease which would take 3-4 weeks to resolve.

 

Now a few lines form the decision Maker!!!!!

 

'Although flare-ups occur every 1-2 months the severity of these and the frequency of bad flare-ups is not recorded'

 

So someone sitting behind a desk with no knowledge of eczema has ignored the top dermatologist in Scotland's medical advice.

 

Hopefully the Tribunal will see how bad he really is, especially as at the moment he is recovering from a bad case of cellulitis that lead to blood poisoning and he was hospitalised for almost 3 weeks!

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their is case law of decision makers interfering with decisions and going against health reports...i would nt worry too much you will get it reinstated but also backdated..it is possible you will have a further claim for damages ...worth looking into,but dont let it go ,did you have a atos origon examination..if so you need to send in a SAR to include a full audit trail of all dat including any recorded transcripts..you will be shocked at what turns up

patrickq1

ps you can search out "benefits and work" dot com see what it says on their site

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Ive been in contact with the Welfare Benefits officer who is helping with the appeal, and he reckons that with the newest medical evidence that we have a very high chance of winning.

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I have read this thread and I have to say I am really shocked. I had no idea that the DWP could use the result of a medical assessment of one benefit to disallow another. Maybe that sounds a bit naive but I wasn't aware this could be done.

 

I hope you win your appeal, good luck.

:)IF YOU ARE BORED WITH LITTLE TO DO:)

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SKY TV and the penalty charge - how far will it go?

 

Me V Its4me and Close Premium Finance:!:WON / 28 November 2007:!:

 

IF I CAN HELP, I WILL, IF I DO, THEN PLEASE CLICK ON THE SCALES ON THE LEFT

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Thanks, but yeah the DWP do use a medical from Atos for one thing for other benefits too. It is completely all wrong, after all in the case of my son it is, as just because you can be fit for work, doesnt mean to say you cant be disabled, plenty disabled people work without predjudice.

 

What they are basically say is in my opinion, that if you have a disability you are not allowed to be ill, or have 'good' days.

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I have read this thread and I have to say I am really shocked. I had no idea that the DWP could use the result of a medical assessment of one benefit to disallow another. Maybe that sounds a bit naive but I wasn't aware this could be done.

 

I hope you win your appeal, good luck.

 

It is a bit confusing ?

 

I cant understand how a IB/ESA medical can affect the DLA claim as well ?

 

DLA is a far more harder to claim than IB/ESA and and unless anythink has changed ? all claims for DLA are by one office in Blackpool Disability Benefits Helpline - for Disability Living Allowance and Attendance Allowance : Directgov - Directories and not by the local JCP..

 

The medicals for DLA are much more tighter,mine was done by a GP (not mine) and a review was carried out a few years ago at my home by another GP.

 

MARTIN

Please use the quote system, So everyone will know what your referring too, thank you ...

 

 

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That is one of the points that will be brought up at the tribunal, as we have it in black and white that this was one of the reason's he was not entitled to any DLA, even though he had previously been awarded Higher Mobility and Middle Care.

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This is a very worrying situation, obviously for you but also for a lot of us as well. I was awarded DLA for the 2nd time following a 2nd sucessful appeal, the award this time is for 3 years.

 

However before that award ends, I am due for a review of my Income Support, which is paid on disability grounds. There was already a worry that because of the changes from IB to ESA that at the time of the review, I fully expect them to carry out the transfer over to ESA. In view of what seems to happen with these medicals, as I have 2 arms, 2 legs and 1 head, I can probably expect to fail the ATOS medical, resulting in having to go through the appeal process. To think that as a result they can then take away my DLA is horrifying, it just should not be allowed.

 

I for one will be following your case with a great deal of intrest.

Edited by Simon7685
Spelling Error....Doh!!

:)IF YOU ARE BORED WITH LITTLE TO DO:)

My Story - Simon -V- The (SH)Abbey - :!:WON / 19 November 2007:!:

 

SKY TV and the penalty charge - how far will it go?

 

Me V Its4me and Close Premium Finance:!:WON / 28 November 2007:!:

 

IF I CAN HELP, I WILL, IF I DO, THEN PLEASE CLICK ON THE SCALES ON THE LEFT

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That is one of the points that will be brought up at the tribunal, as we have it in black and white that this was one of the reason's he was not entitled to any DLA, even though he had previously been awarded Higher Mobility and Middle Care.

 

I would if you not already done it,is on Monday ring up Disability Living Allowance Unit in Blackpool 08457 123 456 and ask them How a medical for IB/ESA can affect your claim for DLA award for Higher Mobility and Middle Care ?

 

Or write and ask them why

 

Disability Living Allowance Unit

Warbreck House

Warbreck Hill

Blackpool

FY2 0YE

 

and quoting them your son NI number

 

somethink is clearly wrong

 

MARTIN

Please use the quote system, So everyone will know what your referring too, thank you ...

 

 

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