dustbin v Equita Bailiffs. Urgent Help Needed

[dustbin]

I have discovered that Equita are a bit of a shower. My husband got behind with our council tax and it was sent to Equita. I sent a letter to them and the council (South Oxfordshire) saying that I would pay them £100 a month, well, no reply. I paid the money to SODC instead, and they should have informed the bailiffs, which they generally did. The bailiffs, have been round twice to discuss 'payment arrangements' ! The bailiff sent was very rude and wouldn't listen to us at all. I have rung them and asked for bank details to enable me to set up standing order and was told that they didn't give out this information. I then spoke to a very rude young man who said that I had defaulted on the payment arrangement - but how can I default on something which I have had no reply to? They also said that they had sent a book of payment slips which I never received. I tried to explain that I didn't get them but they say that I must have done. I have now written to them again 10 days ago to reduce my payment offer, and they haven't replied, yet again. I rang the bailiff 4 weeks ago and he hasn't rung me back. I am due to make a payment at the beginning of next week, but am loathe to use my debit card as they will charge me an extra quid each time. I want to set up a standing order so that I can keep track of the amount paid, but how can I when they won't give me bank details? Help please

[cerberusalert]

Post moved & new thread created.

[ploddertom]

I have discovered that Equita are a bit of a shower. My husband got behind with our council tax and it was sent to Equita. I sent a letter to them and the council (South Oxfordshire) saying that I would pay them £100 a month, well, no reply. I paid the money to SODC instead, and they should have informed the bailiffs, which they generally did. The bailiffs, have been round twice to discuss 'payment arrangements' ! The bailiff sent was very rude and wouldn't listen to us at all. I have rung them and asked for bank details to enable me to set up standing order and was told that they didn't give out this information. I then spoke to a very rude young man who said that I had defaulted on the payment arrangement - but how can I default on something which I have had no reply to? They also said that they had sent a book of payment slips which I never received. I tried to explain that I didn't get them but they say that I must have done. I have now written to them again 10 days ago to reduce my payment offer, and they haven't replied, yet again. I rang the bailiff 4 weeks ago and he hasn't rung me back. I am due to make a payment at the beginning of next week, but am loathe to use my debit card as they will charge me an extra quid each time. I want to set up a standing order so that I can keep track of the amount paid, but how can I when they won't give me bank details? Help please

 

Hi & Welcome to the Club

 

Instead of paying the Bailiff why not pay direct to the Council, payments cannot be refused if you use their online service. I don't doubt Equita have added fees to your account and it may pay you to list them on here for what needs to be paid and what is fiction. Have you found out from the Council exactly what you owed on your Liability Order and what you still owe now. Next ask Equita for a statement of your account including a Screenshot, they may say this needs to be a Subject Access Request - cost £10 but well worth the money. Come back and we can all help advise further.

 

PT

[angryandy]

You say the bailiff has been round twice so lawfully they can charge you £42.50 if they have not levyed a distress on anything. The first time a bailiff visits he/she can charge £24.50, for a second visit it is £18.00. For any other visits where no levy is made and no walking possession order signed they cannot charge you anything. These fees are under the council tax (administration and enforcement) regulations 1992.

 

On another point the bailiff has no right of entry to your home unless you invite him in or they can gain 'peaceful' entry to your home through an unlocked door or window. My advice is to pay the council directly through their online banking system and not to open the door if the bailiff decides to make another visit.

[pink_eeyore]

do you get a giro slip on the letters ?

 

If it has bank details on it use those to set up a standing order

[dustbin]

Thanks pink-eeyore, but the bailiffs don't have a standing order facility, or anything remotely useful. They will accept debit /credit cards but stick an extra pound on for the priviledge.

They also send replies to letters that say that the contents of the letter has been noted and to refer to the bailiff, but the bailiff doesn't ring back! What a shower!

I'll ring the bailiff again but as he is rude and won't listen I don't hold out much hope.

[FairPlay77]

Thanks pink-eeyore, but the bailiffs don't have a standing order facility, or anything remotely useful. They will accept debit /credit cards but stick an extra pound on for the priviledge.

 

They also send replies to letters that say that the contents of the letter has been noted and to refer to the bailiff, but the bailiff doesn't ring back! What a shower!

 

I'll ring the bailiff again but as he is rude and won't listen I don't hold out much hope.

 

HAVE you ever let the bailiffs into your home? Providing that you have not done so, the bailiffs are powerless (they only have the 'right' to enter your premises to take your goods if they have previously gained entry).

 

If they have never entered your property and you have never signed a Walking Possession Order, you should ignore the bailiffs and make all future payments to the council. Don't even bother trying to communicate with the bailiffs: they will see that as a sign of weakness and carry on harassing you. If they call at your home, don't open the door to them and don't speak to them either. Eventually, they will get the message and give up.

[dustbin]

The bailiff turned up today after I spoke to to him last week. I didn't let him in. He left a letter about urgent goods removal. I rang him again, and explained yet again about the situation regarding payments. He said that 'they' would not accept the offer of £50 per month, and I explained that our mortgage was under threat. I agreed to pay them £75 a month and he is happy with that, he said that he would hold our account for two months with a possible extension ansd that he would stop all letters. He says that the debt is now over £600 ( higher than original debt passed over) with fees on. I explained that I had already paid £100 for fees and that the remainder had been credited to the account with them.

 

I have discovered that 'attendance fees' are £42.50 first visit and £18 for a second visit but nothing where no entry was gained and no levy made. A former bailiff left us a form levying on my husband's car but as it has a payment agreement they cant levy on it, which I told them.

 

They are also supposed to leave a list of their fees which they have never done, so I have no idea what they are charging for and if it is legal.

 

They have also sent us letter in the past saying that they will be in the area and will call to take away goods, but that they didn't call and no van was in the area. Is this harrassment and can I take action on it?

 

Also I have read the bit about vulnerable people and my husband possibly falls into that category as he is disbled with a long term history of depression. Should they then refer this back to the council?

 

Lots of advice please thanks,

 

Dustbin

[FairPlay77]

The bailiff turned up today after I spoke to to him last week. I didn't let him in. He left a letter about urgent goods removal. I rang him again, and explained yet again about the situation regarding payments. He said that 'they' would not accept the offer of £50 per month, and I explained that our mortgage was under threat. I agreed to pay them £75 a month and he is happy with that, he said that he would hold our account for two months with a possible extension ansd that he would stop all letters. He says that the debt is now over £600 ( higher than original debt passed over) with fees on. I explained that I had already paid £100 for fees and that the remainder had been credited to the account with them.

 

I have discovered that 'attendance fees' are £42.50 first visit and £18 for a second visit but nothing where no entry was gained and no levy made. A former bailiff left us a form levying on my husband's car but as it has a payment agreement they cant levy on it, which I told them.

 

They are also supposed to leave a list of their fees which they have never done, so I have no idea what they are charging for and if it is legal.

 

They have also sent us letter in the past saying that they will be in the area and will call to take away goods, but that they didn't call and no van was in the area. Is this harrassment and can I take action on it?

 

Also I have read the bit about vulnerable people and my husband possibly falls into that category as he is disbled with a long term history of depression. Should they then refer this back to the council?

 

Lots of advice please thanks,

 

Dustbin

 

THERE is a typing mistake in your sentence about the fees they can charge. It is £24.50 for the first visit and £18 for the second.

 

The most important point, though, is that you need to realise that the bailiffs are POWERLESS as long as you have not let them into your home and have not signed a Walking Possession Order (which I presume to be the case).

 

They have tried to DEFAUD you by adding on UNLAWFUL CHARGES, so why on earth are you still dealing with these chancers? IGNORE THEM and deal ONLY with the council. The council may pretend that you have to deal with the bailiffs but that is lies. You can pay them electronically or send them a cheque (preferably the first option), thereby deciding for yourself how much you can pay and how often. Also, you can indeed tell the council that a member of your family is classed as vulnerable. That being the case, they should not have used the bailiffs in the first place.

 

PLEASE, don't let the bailiffs take you for a ride. You have the whip hand, if you care to use it, and the bailiffs know that.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

FairPlay77 is absolutely right, The following procedure clears up the bailiffs everytime.

 

The Bailiff Company

Their Address 1

Their Address 2

Their Address 3

Postcode

 

BY POST AND BY EMAIL

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME + REF]: Your fees.

 

I write following visits by your bailiff however there appears to an irregularity with your fees and I am writing to ask you to provide me the following within seven (7) days:

 

1) The name of the court that issued the certificate for the bailiff in charge.

 

2) Written itemised breakdown of a) your fees, and b) the original debt.

 

3) The name and address of the organisation that instructed you

 

4) a) Truthfully confirm in writing your fees are lawful and comply with legislation or, b) refund me the unlawful fees plus reasonable compensation for being cheated by your bailiff with his fees by midday the seventh day from the date of this letter.

 

A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an arrestable offence under the Fraud Act 2006. Section 2 of the Act specifically describes a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss therefore, if no satisfactory refund is made to me by 12.00 midday seven (7) days from the date of this letter I will automatically file a complaint to police under the 2006 Fraud Act and the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. If you have charged VAT on unlawful fees then you may be reported for VAT fraud and your documents will be given in evidence.

 

Case law requires I recover unlawful bailiffs fees from your client that instructed you. If you fail to make the required refund within seven days I will automatically proceed by filing the claim at court.

 

This is a letter before action and is not a request to access any personal data as defined under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

This letter is delivered by Royal Mail and deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It now is your responsibility and in your best interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

YOUR NAME

Copied to: [NAME OF COUNCIL]

 

Send a copy of the letter to the council along with a copy of the bailiff’s fee document.

 

Head of Revenue

Borough Council

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Council tax arreats and your bailiffs fees

 

Please find a copy of a letter before action that has been delivered by even post to your contractor who is claiming you have instructed to act.

 

You contractor is cheating with his fees and it is my intention to reclaim them by filing proceedings in the small claims track if they are not refunded in full within seven days.

 

As the council is liable for its agents it is my intention to name the council as the principle defendant, however, Court rules require me to give the council reasonable opportunity to settle the claim beforehand.

 

If you wish to settle the claim, please pay me the sum described in the enclosed letter at the above address within seven days from the date of this letter.

 

You may wish to launch an investigation or make your own enquiries; this does not delay the proceedings being filed at Court, and to protect other taxpayers from being defrauded in this way, the case will pass to the Local Government Ombudsman.

 

These documents are delivered by Royal Mail and deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It now is your responsibility and in your best interests they are handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

[YOUR NAME]

 

Encs:

1 Copy of letter to bailiff

2. Copy of bailiff document showing his fees.

 

If you don't get a refund in seven days or the bailiffs fob you off with excuses, download and complete a Form N1 from the HMCS website. The Defendants are addressed as:

 

THE MAYOR AND BURGESSES OF [NAME OF COUNCIL]

 

AND

 

[NAME OF BAILIFF COMPANY] 2nd DEFENDANT

 

Brief Details of the Claim - enter - Reclaiming unlawful bailiff's fees.

 

Particulars of claim:

 

I received a bailiff acting for the defendant collecting unpaid council tax. The bailiff dishonestly charged me [£AMOUNT] bailiffs fees contrary to the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 which prescribes £24.50 and reasonable costs for transporting a debtors goods in a van. The bailiff did not move any goods in a van and I did not sign any documents for the bailiff. I have been defrauded by the bailiff who is cheating with his fees and I asked for a refund but it was the bailiff’s choice to keep the money. On 20 April 2007, Lord Lucas in the House of Lords asked HM Government (inter-alia) "whether it would be right for the police to claim that such an action is a civil and not a criminal matter"? Baroness Scotland of Asthal, The Minister of State, Home Office replied: (inter-alia) "A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006". Reasonable costs have been defined by District Judge Advent on the 9th & 24th September 2008 presiding over Case No 8CL51015 Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). The court ruled that "because the bailiff produces no evidence as to how the charge had been arrived then he unable to show that it is reasonable". I claim i) the sum of [£AMOUNT], ii) Interest under Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from the date the money became due at the daily rate of 0.00022%, iii) reasonable costs the court thinks fit for being defrauded by the defendant iv) Reasonable costs the court thinks fit for Discovery of Information and compiling this case for court, v) costs allowed by the court costs allowed by the court at the prescribed rate.

 

If you are on a low income then complete an EX160 fee exemption form.

 

File the Form N1 at you local county court. The claim will be defended (with the same old bailiff's ramblings) and the court will send you an allocation questionnaire. Keep all documents and receipts given to you by the bailiff and await the hearing date. Do not be bullied by bailiffs or the council's barrister to get you to drop the claim. You want ALL your money back plus your costs and interest in CLEARED FUNDS. Go before the Judge and ask for it. When the judge has awarded your judgment, always ask the judge for your "costs of today at the prescribed amount", he'll award you an extra 60-quid on top of your costs. Remember, you are a litigant-in-person and court rules say the judge must advocate for you in court.

 

When a bailiff defrauds you with his fees he commits an arrestable offence, this will keep him busy.

 

The Chief Constable

Name of Police Authority

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Reporting a crime committed under the Fraud Act 2006

 

I enclose a document given to me by a man saying he is a bailiff firm [and threatened to commit breaking and entering and take property unless I pay him £AMOUNT]. He charged fees £AMOUNT when the law prescribes a fee of £24.50.

 

The bailiff commits an offence under the 2006 Fraud Act. Lord Lucas sitting at the House of Lords on 20 April 2007 when he asked HM Government whether it would be right for the police to claim that such an action is a civil and not a criminal matter. The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal) replied with, inter-alia (quote) A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006 (unquote).

 

Section 1 means by which this offence can be committed is set out in Section 2, on fraud by false representation. This section applies where a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss. It is also possible that, where a bailiff repeatedly charges for work that has not been done, this conduct will amount to fraudulent trading either under Section 9 of the 2006 Act or under the provisions on fraudulent trading in company legislation.

 

The law can provide reasonable costs in respect of bailiffs transporting goods in a van (attending to remove fee) however no goods have been levied and no document has been signed by me. District Judge Advent on the 9th & 24th September 2008 presiding over Case 8CL51015 Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). The court ruled that (quote) because the bailiff produces no evidence as to how the charge had been arrived then he unable to show that it is reasonable (unquote).

 

Any offence committed under the 2006 Fraud Act is an arrestable offence under Section 24 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. Please assign a crime reference number and I request the crime is investigated professionally and objectively and I am happy to help you in your enquiries and stand as a prosecution witness at trial.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

YOUR NAME

Enc: copy of bailiff document giving contact details

[tomtubby]

The bailiff turned up today after I spoke to to him last week. I didn't let him in. He left a letter about urgent goods removal. I rang him again, and explained yet again about the situation regarding payments. He said that 'they' would not accept the offer of £50 per month, and I explained that our mortgage was under threat. I agreed to pay them £75 a month and he is happy with that, he said that he would hold our account for two months with a possible extension ansd that he would stop all letters. He says that the debt is now over £600 ( higher than original debt passed over) with fees on. I explained that I had already paid £100 for fees and that the remainder had been credited to the account with them.

 

I have discovered that 'attendance fees' are £42.50 first visit and £18 for a second visit but nothing where no entry was gained and no levy made. A former bailiff left us a form levying on my husband's car but as it has a payment agreement they cant levy on it, which I told them.

 

They are also supposed to leave a list of their fees which they have never done, so I have no idea what they are charging for and if it is legal.

 

They have also sent us letter in the past saying that they will be in the area and will call to take away goods, but that they didn't call and no van was in the area. Is this harrassment and can I take action on it?

 

Also I have read the bit about vulnerable people and my husband possibly falls into that category as he is disbled with a long term history of depression. Should they then refer this back to the council?

 

Lots of advice please thanks,

 

Dustbin

 

As many readers on CAG are aware, our business deals ONLY in assisting the public with queries following a bailiff visit.

 

Over the last few years, I am astonished that the public do not ask questions concerning their debt with a bailiff.

 

Sadly, MANY bailiff companies will apply a 1st and sometimes even a 2nd visit fee to an account BEFORE they have ever attended. They get away with this because the householder does not know how much the Liability Order is for !!!! Therefore you MUST ALWAYS CHECK THE AMOUNT OF THE LIABILITY ORDER WITH THE COUNCIL!!!

 

So many bailiff companies will "levy upon a car that is not owned by the debtor". You have confirmed that this happened in your previous account. HOWEVER.......have you ENSURED that ALL CHARGES associated with this levy HAVE BEEN REMOVED ......I bet that the answer is NO!!!!!

 

A lot of bailiff companies are also using delaying tactics to avoid having to provide a breakdown of fees. If this happens.....send an FOI or SAR request to BOTH the bailiff company AND the council. This is because the local authority have immediate access to your account and they are wholly responsible for the levy and charges that have been applied to your account by their agents.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

A lot of bailiff companies are also using delaying tactics to avoid having to provide a breakdown of fees. If this happens.....send an FOI or SAR request to BOTH the bailiff company AND the council.

 

A Freedom of Information Act request is about accessing public information. A Subject Access Request is about accessing personal information held about you by a company.

 

Asking for a breakdown of fees is neither of these.

[SECR3T]

ooops

Edited November 19, 2009 by SECR3T
wrong thread

[SECR3T]

oh incase anyone wonders about the words in capitals, thought i would try there tactics to get attention. I will be sending it first class recorded tommorow morning and giving the council a copy too