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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Claim Stayed – Due to Unenforceable CCA Test Cases.


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The ruling on prescribed terms being contained was agreed by the parties involved

 

Well, that will screw over any creditor or DCA that thinks an 'application form' without the prescribed terms is acceptable. :D

 

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The ruling has gone against the banks in most of the preliminary issues but they suceeded on the reconstitution point.

 

The ruling on prescribed terms being contained was agreed by the parties involved

 

 

Does this mean that a reconstituted agreement can be used in court, or does it mean it can only be used for a CCA request? In other words, do they still have to provide the original in court?

 

BF

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Abc

Edited by Josie8

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Does this mean that a reconstituted agreement can be used in court, or does it mean it can only be used for a CCA request? In other words, do they still have to provide the original in court?

 

BF

 

It w

Edited by Josie8

You may receive different advice to your query as people have different experiences and opinions. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take.

 

If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability.

 

If you think I have been helpful PLEASE click the scales

 

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Ruling generally relates to s.78 requests. OFT position seemed to be that it was acceptable for creditor to provide reconstituted agreement in court under all circumstances so guess creditors will try this avenue

 

Crikey, the OFT strikes again.. so back of a fag packet agreements will do then in the eyes of the OFT provided its a sophisticated financial institution that provides a sworn statement to the validity of it I presume :-D

 

S.

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Josie8

 

Not sure if you are in the know or making up your own interpretations

 

There's always been a difference between s.78 request copies and what has to be produced to enforce agreements....most folk get confused by s.78 requests and the reconstituted agreement thing as its a grey area...however to enforce the copy has always had to be of the original and this is backed by by good case law so the OFT interpretation isn't important.

 

If you are informed has this ruling stated that a reconstituted agreement is acceptable for enforcement?

Live Life-Debt Free

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Josie8

 

Not sure if you are in the know or making up your own interpretations

 

There's always been a difference between s.78 request copies and what has to be produced to enforce agreements....most folk get confused by s.78 requests and the reconstituted agreement thing as its a grey area...however to enforce the copy has always had to be of the original and this is backed by by good case law so the OFT interpretation isn't important.

 

If you are informed has this ruling stated that a reconstituted agreement is acceptable for enforcement?

 

 

totally agree b3rty

 

wilson for a start

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Does anyone understand what Baggio meant by this a couple of days ago?

 

judgement passed down 10 am Xmas Eve

 

and a big F*** you to the banks who thought they would get away with blagging "reconstituted" agreements

 

the law is black and white and thank the lord it has been applied correctly.

 

BF

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Hope this puts an end to their "creative" Blue Peter antics.

 

It's simply unbelievable that the (Civil) Courts allow any discourse whatever on the point of "recreating evidence" in the first place - and this raises serious questions in my mind, where the criminal courts eg, would simply not allow any discourse on the point whatsoever, because tampering is already evident from elements of the credit industry - and was most certainly evident in Story where Natwest denied but then admitted that the CCA applies to agreements that qualify for the protection - the Courts ignored the admission in order to set precedent for the banks.

 

The rules of evidence are The rules of evidence and the CCA is clear on the point - there's nothing new in it, the CCA follows evidential burdens (or is supposed to) - ie the CCA requires that it is so provided,documentation is to be provided, in due form, and it's provided (where it's needed) BEFORE any credit is advanced, IF the agreement is to be legally enforceable against the debtor.

 

And it is done that way round (documents provided before the credit is available) because Parliament recognised that documentation provided the key - the divining point between the scrupulous and the unscrupulous credit trader - the CCA presumes that mischief lay behind a trader's non-compliance. As a professional moneylender - he is to get his act together ! Document ! (And keep proper records of those documents !)

 

Stayed CCA cases - appears to me the court's are simply buying time - hoping that the parties will achieve settlement before the particular Judge has to make a decision - and get egg on his face - let's face it, the whole CCA scenario is unsatisfactorily explosive.

 

I'm sorry to say that it is a real pity that the Courts have allowed this 'head of steam' to develop in the unacceptable way it has - with the law being in a bigger mess now than ever before.

 

There is only one reasonable solution in my mind and that MUST start with, and be dictated by, the rule of law - ie why did parliament repeal the common law into consumer credit ? Why is Mr Francis Bennion, draftsman of the 1974 Consumer Credit Act, not properly consulted ?

 

I believe that it's a national disgrace that he is rudely ignored by our common law judges where he is ready, willing, and very much able to fully explain his drafting and he is able to do so, to all levels of society.

 

WHY DO THEY IGNORE HIM ? THAT IS THE overriding QUESTION here -

 

Just What does he have to say that they don't want to hear ?

 

WHY is MR Francis Bennion refused a hearing where the Courts otherwise pride themselves on their quest for objectivity, clarity and certainty ?

 

He does have the answers.

 

Merry Xmas !!

 

John Story smilie.gif

 

www.ruinedbynatwest.com

Edited by ruinedbynatwest
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It's simply unbelievable that the (Civil) Courts allow any discourse whatever on the point of "recreating evidence" . The criminal courts would

simply not allow any discourse on the point - evidence is evidence andf the CCA is clear on the point - the documentation is provided in due form and it is so, BEFORE any credit is advanced.

 

Criminal courts require beyond a reasonable doubt, civil courts require balance of probabilities hence the different slant.

 

S.

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Does anyone understand what Baggio meant by this a couple of days ago?

 

 

 

BF

 

it

Edited by Josie8

You may receive different advice to your query as people have different experiences and opinions. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take.

 

If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability.

 

If you think I have been helpful PLEASE click the scales

 

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Just going back to the OFT points they also said they would want a creditor to state whether they have a copy or not when reconstructing so I really don't think the OFT position is as cut and dry and as this is about a test case we should wait until the judgement is accessible to read before making assumptions

Live Life-Debt Free

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Josie8

 

Have you read it?

 

Yes

You may receive different advice to your query as people have different experiences and opinions. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take.

 

If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability.

 

If you think I have been helpful PLEASE click the scales

 

court bundles for dummies

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hold up guys, a lot of stirring taking place here.

 

the true judgements and its actual ramifications are not being represented on here, as per the norm.

 

relax, i am waiting for full clarification.... but things have not gone the way of the creditors as some are stating on here.

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hold up guys, a lot of stirring taking place here.

 

the true judgements and its actual ramifications are not being represented on here, as per the norm.

 

relax, i am waiting for full clarification.... but things have not gone the way of the creditors as some are stating on here.

 

Have you actually read the judgment?

You may receive different advice to your query as people have different experiences and opinions. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take.

 

If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability.

 

If you think I have been helpful PLEASE click the scales

 

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WAIT A FEW MINUTES and draw breath before acting.

Let’s see what the judge actually said AND also look at the OFT submission. There are a few days of holidays now, so no action is going to be taken by anybody for at least a week, if not two weeks. STOP PANICING.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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hold up guys, a lot of stirring taking place here.

 

the true judgements and its actual ramifications are not being represented on here, as per the norm.

 

relax, i am waiting for full clarification.... but things have not gone the way of the creditors as some are stating on here.

 

Baggio to the rescue:D:D, and to think you thought I was one of them;)

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