Barclaycard (ex morgan stanley) No CAA ** SUCCESS STORY **

[sarnie2109]

subscribing

[bradfordlad]

subbing too!

[mr.sshh]

subbing !

[BillyS]

Also subscribing, same situation, same bank.... Good luck.

[roygoodbeat]

Let me know how you get on. Case currently with Ombudsman and Trading Standards Office,but knowing them, it will take ages and they tend to side with the lender.

[bradfordlad]

Subbing - another one in the same situation!

[roygoodbeat]

Just as an update, still no news. The trading standards have not come back to me since xmas and the ombudsman have not written for a while. Even Barclaycard have kept quiet. Will keep you updated.

[roygoodbeat]

This is my second card that has been brought by barclays and recently sold to Lowells and Red. Having issues with them on this account but SAR'd them. I have never received a morgan stanley agreement when I originally asked for a sar and a copy of my credit agreement. This has been in dispute for 2 years. They have never produced a deed of assignment for Morgan Stanley. I never recall ever receiving one. One minute I was getting statements from Morgan Stanley, then Barclaycard. Would Barclaycard have had to keep a copy of this deed for when they bought the original account??

[slick132]

HI RGB,

 

As the Morgan Stanley card was taken over by BC, I don't know if there was a formal Deed or Notice of Assignment at the time.

 

BC would need a copy of the original Morgan Stanley credit agreement if they wanted to succeed in taking court action.

 

[roygoodbeat]

Hi

 

After being chased by different collection agents, Lowells finally purchased two barclaycard accounts. Have received by hand yesterday a statutory demand to pay around £14000. They have put together these two accounts.

 

Still to date I have never received a credit agreement from my old barclaycard (taken in 1994). In addition I have never received the same for the morgan stanley one. Even to my cca request they have only sent a reconstructed version, which only refers to barclaycard and not morgan stanley. The default notices are correct I think. Issued 19 may 2009. Pay by the 5th June 2009. (There was a bank holiday over this period)

 

Having a ruff time at home. Recently broken up with my partner (A delayed reaction to when we got into trouble 3 and a half years ago) Also lost my job due to the split up and on anti depressants.

 

From what I have seen, these accounts are unenforceable. Need some advice on how to go about this all. From what I have read, Lowells are going down this route especially if they do not have the correct documents that fall under the 1974 consumer credit act.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi roygoodbeat,

 

Sorry you are having a bad time at the moment.

 

Write to Lowells and say you are not asking for the agreements under Section 77/78 but that they have an obligation under CPUTR 2008 to advise you if they hold, or have ever held, the original signed agreements relating to this account. Also point out that they are obliged to let you know if they do not hold any such agreement.

 

Tell them you will give them 14 days to reply before you report them to the OFT and FOS.

 

DD

[roygoodbeat]

Hi roygoodbeat,

 

Sorry you are having a bad time at the moment.

 

Write to Lowells and say you are not asking for the agreements under Section 77/78 but that they have an obligation under CPUTR 2008 to advise you if they hold, or have ever held, the original signed agreements relating to this account. Also point out that they are obliged to let you know if they do not hold any such agreement.

 

Tell them you will give them 14 days to reply before you report them to the OFT and FOS.

 

DD

 

I have gone through my stuff and have found copies of the application forms. Both are unreadable in part. If these are the agreement, then i think that these are defective and do not comply with the 1974 consumer credit act.

 

I wrote to barclaycard asking the same above info but they nether replied. I'll try to post up the application forms. Don't know what to do with regards the statutory demand.

[unclebulgaria67]

You will need to get the set aside done, as they have shown that they will progress to issue a bankruptcy petition.

 

When did they serve the SD on you ?

 

Don't worry too much. There are loads of threads on here about how to complete the set aside forms and you will get help from people who understand the process.

[DonkeyB]

If the original CCA requests (s78) were not complied with, then the accounts remain in dispute and that is a total bar to any form of enforcement.

 

Have they sent any pre-action letters, or notice of assignment?

[roygoodbeat]

Still trying to get my head around this all. Thats the trouble with depression!

 

Here are the copies of the application forms, with Barclays and with Morgan Stanley.

 

Need to decide what to do as I only have 4 days to go before I have to appeal at the court. I have also received a letter from another debt collection agent who have been told that the file has been passed to them.

 

Are these enforceable? Does it make a difference that they are put on the same statatory demand?

 

Still outstanding the original t&c's from Barclaycard and the account does have unlawful charges which were never addressed by Barclaycard.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi roygoodbeat,

 

Quick post as I am late for school pickup so will come back to you later, but that alleged back page does look like a cut and paste job, as far as I can see, especially the column on the left hand side. How does it look to you? Is there anything which ties the front to the back. Any conditions which don't match up, for example?

 

How can both companies have the same debt? Who are the other lot?

 

I'll have another look later.

 

DD

[roygoodbeat]

Lowells have purchased the accounts and are claiming on the same demand.

[slick132]

Hi RGB,

 

With very limited time left to apply for a Set Aside, you need to get your skates on and deal with this.

 

The images above are too small to see. Please see the guide here at post #122 about posting copy documents - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?214191-HSBC-solicitors-northampton-claim-help-pls&p=3808613&viewfull=1#post3808613

 

Or maybe the doc'ts have been posted up earlier in the thread. If so, please confirm in which post.

 

[Desperate Daniella]

That would be really helpful.

[roygoodbeat]

Here are pdf versions of them. Its the best copy I can do.

[Desperate Daniella]

Firstly, the Barclaycard application form: I can't see any Prescribed Terms on this application form. Just in case I'm missing something in the shaded areas, can you confirm that they are not there?

 

Also, this is a microfiche copy and there are various regulations relating to microfiches and their handling and storage, and so on. I don't know enough about it but hopefully someone on the site team will.

 

Secondly, MS: Can you compare all conditions referred to on the front page tie in with what is on the back. The same for any interest percentages. Do these match the figures which are given on your statements? What you have got on the back page is part of the conditions. Did they ever send the whole lot in a booklet, and again do the percentages, charges, etc., match what was shown on your statements from that time.

 

I have seen a lot of these forms and I think those boxes on the left hand side look as though they have been stuck on and therefore the whole column could be a cut a paste. Measure the margins with a tape measure to check.

 

Are the form reference numbers shown on both sides of the form the same? Sorry, I can't make them out.

 

DD

[Desperate Daniella]

Sorry, I think you mentioned in a earlier post another debt collection agency who have just contacted you as well as Lowells. Which one is that?

[slick132]

Hi RGB,

 

Although your SD was served by hand, I think you'll find information here useful in trying to have the SD Set Aside - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?162131-Statutory-Demands-and-Service-By-Post&p=1738221&viewfull=1#post1738221

[roygoodbeat]

Firstly, the Barclaycard application form: I can't see any Prescribed Terms on this application form. Just in case I'm missing something in the shaded areas, can you confirm that they are not there?

 

Also, this is a microfiche copy and there are various regulations relating to microfiches and their handling and storage, and so on. I don't know enough about it but hopefully someone on the site team will.

 

Secondly, MS: Can you compare all conditions referred to on the front page tie in with what is on the back. The same for any interest percentages. Do these match the figures which are given on your statements? What you have got on the back page is part of the conditions. Did they ever send the whole lot in a booklet, and again do the percentages, charges, etc., match what was shown on your statements from that time.

 

I have seen a lot of these forms and I think those boxes on the left hand side look as though they have been stuck on and therefore the whole column could be a cut a paste. Measure the margins with a tape measure to check.

 

Are the form reference numbers shown on both sides of the form the same? Sorry, I can't make them out.

 

DD

 

1) Barclaycard

 

I have never received t&c's for the 1992 application from Barclaycard. Also refers to PPi on page 7 which again I have never received a copy.

 

2) morgan stanley

 

I have only ever received the one page with the t&c's. Looks like it is only in part. The front refers to section 16 (Personal data) but there is no section 16 in the ones they have sent.

 

Cannot check the statements as the statements do not go as far back as that.

 

Does it make a difference that they have lumped the both of them on the same notice.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi,

 

Barclaycard:

 

If there are no prescribed terms on the application form which they are trying to say is the agreement then I cannot see that it is valid Credit Card Agreement because it does not contain the Prescribed Terms and therefore cannot be enforced.

 

Did you pay PPI?

 

Here is what I wrote to another card company who had used an application form without the prescribed terms and they went away without a word. Some bits might not be relevant to this card, but the bulk of it should be.

 

 

 

 

As you are aware, in order to comply with Section 61 of theConsumer Credit Act 1974, a document must conform to regulations made under theprovisions of Section 60 (1) CCA 1974, otherwise it cannot be properlyexecuted.

 

 

 

These regulations are the Consumer Credit (Agreements)Regulations 1983, SI 1983/1553, and set out the form and content ofagreements.

 

 

 

Firstly, the heading of the so-called Agreement isincorrect: Schedule 1 refers to the‘Type of Agreement’. Any credit cardagreements should correctly be headed “Credit Card Agreement regulated by theConsumer Credit Act 1974”.

 

 

 

For a form to be compliant with the Regulations it must containwithin the four corners of the agreement the prescribed terms laid out in SI1983/1553, Schedule 6, Column 2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For running account credit the Agreement must state:

 

 

 

1. A term statingthe credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined, or that there isno credit limit.

 

 

 

2. A term statingthe rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the Agreement.

 

 

 

3. A term statinghow the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the Agreement to make therepayments which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of thefollowing:

 

 

 

(a) number ofrepayments;

 

(b) amount ofrepayments;

 

© frequency andtiming of repayments;

 

(d) dates ofrepayments;

 

(e) the manner inwhich any of the above may be determined;

 

or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary whatis payable.

 

 

 

The application form which you have sent me does not includeany of these terms. In fact there arethree references to the ‘leaflet’. Theprescribed terms therefore were not within the four corners of the agreement,and they cannot be in a separate document. This agreement therefore is not compliant with Section 60 (1) ConsumerCredit Act 1974 and as such is not properly executed and is only enforceable byCourt Order by virtue of S 65. TheCourt’s ability to grant such an order is constrained by S 127 (3) to adocument having the debtor’s signature and the prescribed terms.

 

 

 

 

As you will be aware there is a recent House of Lords authority onthis matter: Tuckey LJ in the case of Wilson and another v Hurstanger Limited (2007) EWCA Civ 299.

 

 

MS: The reverse appears to show the prescribed terms, but the question is proving that they were when you signed the document. Does it say anything on the front about those conditions being overleaf?

 

I'm sure they are not supposed to lump them together and your argument will be along those lines. You need someone with experience on how to set out the defence in these cases and as Slick is on your thread I'm sure he'll point you in the right direction, or alert the right person to your thread.