Boxclever vs Toffee

[Toffeewoman]

I don't feel scared any more, especially when I read those Particulars closely. They're all wrong. And going through the Agreement and it being pointed out they 'made' me take the insurance just makes me mad. Especially when I could have owned about 7 machines by now, with the dosh I've already paid out!

 

But you guys give the courage, or rather the strength to summon it. And I may lose, but not without giving it a blummin' good try. Lets see what they have.

[clemma]

That's the spirit

[Toffeewoman]

Well, finally the letter has been sent off recorded & signed for this morning. I had to go late on yesterday in the end to get the letter done and access a printer. I stupidly didn't print out two copies at the time, but I saved it to her computer and will copy it out next week when I visit her again.

 

I'm not sure if I put the right individual points in the letter, as I couldn't post up before sending it. I stuck to asking for a copy of the Agreement, and any other documents they would be relying on in court against which I must defend myself. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that, but I have anyway. It's difficult because they don't mention any documents at all in the Particulars of Claim, referring only to goods sold. Hope this is OK.

 

I'm also not sure how much time I have to wait for them now, or is the ball in their court re sending me (or not) the documents or giving me more time, staying etc? June 25th was the date on the Court papers, then I entered the AoS online. Now I've sent off this CPR letter. If I've added it up correctly it's a further ten days plus five, unless I hear from them otherwise? Regardless, do I have to file a defence anyway in that timescale?

 

TIA yet again for any clarification on this - it's wierd when you're doing this for the first time, doubting & questioning everything!

[clemma]

I'm pretty sure they only have 7 days with which to respond to the CPR request. If you receive nothing, or just standard documents, then you can enter what is called an "embarrassed defence". I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong regarding the timescale though.

 

Actually, I've just re-read the CPR letter, and it does indeed state 7 days - if they need longer they must request an extension.

[Toffeewoman]

Cheers Clemma. OK - I'll double check when my deadline for filing the Defence is then. I can't miss that one.

 

I've not asked them for much. Can't wait to see what they send re the Agreement.. I'm just glad that things like that I always keep. I may not know where they are temporarily though! Even if they manage to come up with the original, they're surely p*ssing in the wind as it's a Rental one. But we'll see.

[kurvaface]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. It is going to be interesting to see what they come up with.....if anything:)

[Toffeewoman]

OK according to the AoS terms - I make 28 working days counting from 25th June to be up on 22nd July. If weekends don't count, then it has to be in by 4th August. I can't seem to find if it's working days or straight 28.

 

AoS was received and processed by the Court on 3rd July.

 

Thanks K

[kurvaface]

Straight 28 I think

[Toffeewoman]

Yes I think you're right, K - unless your last day lands on a BH or w/end, in which case next working day.

 

Not long to find out, then! Will post when/if I hear something (deadline next Friday) and also to compile the defence (deadline following Weds) nearer the time.

 

I have other debt issues to sort out, so I may see you on other threads in the meantime! I'm still sorting through the paper-mountain I have here..

 

Keep well!

[kurvaface]

Well, you're in the right place then:)

[Toffeewoman]

LOL! Abso-frickin-lutely!

 

Have put together a preliminary defence now so plenty of time to add and amend. Just happy I have something done. Can be told what's cr*p and what's to be added later. Rah tid!

[Toffeewoman]

Eek! Tomorrow is the 22nd, the 28th day from the date on the Court papers. So my defence has to be emailed tomorrow. B Carter has sent me nothing in reply to the CPR request, delivered to him according to the Track & Trace on Monday 13th July. The three things I asked for in it were true copy of Agreement, breakdown of the amount sued for (as I have no idea what this charge is supposed to be for), & a copy of each of any other papers they plan to use in court that I must defend myself against. That was it.

 

So now I have to write the defence. I need to know if I have to quote precedents in it? I'm not sure how to phrase things. In the absence of anything from BC, I was thinking of sticking to these main points:

 

1) No goods have been knowingly sold to me by Boxclever limited.

 

2) There is no Agreement in place which constitutes a Purchase of Goods from Boxclever to myself.

 

3) I had a Rental Agreement with Boxclever which began in 2001. The dates as stated on the Particulars of Claim do not correspond to the aforesaid Rental Agreement. (state both sets of dates)

 

4) A CPR31.14 request received by the claimant on 13th July 2009 has not yielded any response. This requested a breakdown of the amount claimed, A copy of the Agreement and any other documents against which I am to defend myself.

 

Counterclaim

Bones of claim: Forced mis-selling of PPI. Interest on that amount. Irresponsible reluctance of Claimant to end agreement despite knowing my personal circumstances. Costs & Administration Fees. Collection of the machine from my property.

Any advice would be appreciated as soon as possible due to tomorrow's deadline, and very sorry for the late request.

 

TIA

Toffee

[kurvaface]

Looks like their claim is going to fall flat on it's face. I bet they were expecting you to just roll over and submit:)

[Toffeewoman]

Hi KF! You think so? I'm not sure of their MO now. Should I get my Defence in anyway? And then it's up to them and I'll email the Court in a few days to check up what's happening?

 

I think you're probably right about the rolling over bit.. But I'm too annoyed with them to do that!

[kurvaface]

You follow the rules. Let them screw up and then see how happy the judge is:D

[clemma]

I expected nothing less from BC

[The GodMother]

that defence sounds ok. I would send it.

[clemma]

You need to submit an embarrassed defence. Something along the lines of:

 

I, ********** of ************** make this statement as my defence to the claim brought by **************

 

The claimants particulars of claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system

 

No documents supporting the claims in the particulars have been offered and despite a request to the claimant for further information none has been forth coming and as a result I cannot plead in defence to the claim

 

Should it be the claimants position that the claim is brought under a regulated credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, yet the claimant claims statutory interest which the claimant should surely know it is not entitled to by virtue of the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991 (No. 1184 (L. 12)) in particular section 2 (3) which expressly prohibits such an award.

 

The defendant contends that point 4 in itself amounts to a clear abuse of the process as the claimant would know the law and is trying to bring a claim for monies which it is not entitled to and knows that this is the case

 

Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimants claim appears without merit

 

Further to that above 6 paragraphs, the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

 

You can also add your parts as well.

[Toffeewoman]

Thanks Clemma, that's great! I think I will add my edited bits in. Hope it fits on the MCOL screen. I was reading a defence by CCM on another thread (could have been historic) and I think he said 33 days, so I still have time to get it printed and recorded delivery if it doesn't. I hope this is right.

 

Do I still put in a Counterclaim, in view of my defence being embarassed? Or do I hold off and see what happens next?

 

ETA Thanks GodMother - I missed your post first off.

Edited July 22, 2009 by Toffeewoman

[clemma]

You could put in a claim for wasted costs (eventually) as I have a feeling Brian Carter won't defend this. Other than that - court is not my strong point I'm afraid so I'm unsure about the counterclaim.....sorry.

[Toffeewoman]

It fits easily. Am shuffling about with my added bits now. Plenty of characters left!

 

I see I have to do the counter-claim at the same time.

 

ETA OK thanks for your help Clemma. I think I need to find the legal forum and maybe post a link in there.

[Toffeewoman]

Sorry to repost in here, but I think I put my original thread in the Debt Collection Industry forum maybe wrongly.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/207473-boxclever-toffee-4.html#post2307686

 

My 28 days from service date of 25th June are up today to get my defence in. I put in an AoS 3rd July. Should I repeat my case on here or leave it as a link to the other thread? Thanks so much in advance of any advice at all.

 

Toffeewoman

[maroondevo52]

Threads merged.

[Toffeewoman]

Right, I hope I haven't mangled Clemma's letter too much in adding my own bits. I'm not sure if I've gone off the point at the end and should leave some stuff out. I haven't submitted it yet, just trying it out on MCOL for word-count.

 

Any comments/suggestions welcome, and confirmation either way about whether I actually have 33 days (a five day leeway) to get this in would be helpful.

 

Thinking of not doing the Counterclaim and going for the PPI thing separately with them after I see how this case goes. I'm not sure of best course of action really.

 

Thanks again

T

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I, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, make this statement as my defence to the claim brought by BC SERVICES UK LTD RE: BOXCLEVER LTD. The claimant's particulars of claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action or explanation of the claim, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR, even allowing for the constraints of the Bulk Issue System.

 

No documents supporting the claims in the particulars have been offered and despite a request under CPR31.14 to the claimant for further information (delivered to the Claimant according to Post Office Track & Trace on 13th July 2009) specifically 1)True copy of an Agreement 2) Breakdown of amount claimed in the Particulars of Claim 3) Copy each of any paper against which I am to defend myself, none has been forth-coming and as a result I cannot properly plead in defence to the claim.

 

Should it be the claimant's position that the claim is brought under a regulated credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, yet the claimant claims statutory interest which the claimant should surely know it is not entitled to by virtue of the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991 (No. 1184 (L. 12)) in particular section 2 (3) which expressly prohibits such an award.

 

The defendant contends that point 4 in itself amounts to a clear abuse of the process as the claimant would know the law and is trying to bring a claim for monies which it is not entitled to and knows that this is the case.

 

Further, the defendant wishes to add the following:

 

1) No goods have been knowingly sold to the defendant by BC SERVICES UK LTD RE: BOXCLEVER LTD or 'boxclever'

 

2) There is no Agreement in place which constitutes a Purchase of Goods from BC SERVICES UK LTD RE: BOXCLEVER LTD or 'boxclever' to the defendant

 

3) The defendant had a Rental Agreement with 'boxclever' which began in 2001. The dates as stated on the Particulars of Claim no.:xxxxxxxxxx do not correspond to the aforementioned Rental Agreement. The Rental Agreement is between Home Technology Finance Ltd (Registered in England No. 3702428) trading as 'boxclever' and the defendant

 

4) The defendant has paid to the Claimant from 2001 - July 2008, almost 2000 pounds sterling for the use of a reconditioned washer dryer machine Rented to the defendant (see 3) above). The defendant also received a call from the Claimant offering to sell the now unresponsive machine for 30 pounds sterling after the defendant verbally ended the agreement in a telephone call. 'boxclever' is fully aware that this machine is very old, non-functioning and would never be further re-conditioned by the claimant.

 

Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimants claim appears without merit. In view of that and the above, the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

[clemma]

Looks good to me, although I am no expert.....