Hi there I also received a letter from these people, saying it was in reference to a CCJ recently filed against me.. Well, I have received no court papers for anything of the sort, and haven't had a previous address for nigh on twenty years. The letter is lying in an attempt to recover a debt out of the 6 year scope (which I had completely forgotten about). I'll read the link above and decide what to do about it. Have you heard anything else from them? In my letter (also from Harry Ellis) they said they were going to send a doorstep collector.. Toffee

Hi Kurvaface and apologies for the late reply. Well, quite a bit has happened, the most satisfying occurred today. I got a letter from BC saying "Please be advised the County Court Claim No xxxxxxxx has been discontinued. Yours sincerely, BC". Next to the account balance under my account number is 0.00 ukl. Wonderful! After putting in my defence, I received a few letters from the above. The first said they didn't need to supply anything and basically to pay up. The second supplied me with a short breakdown of the amount claimed, including 160 ukl for 'buying' the machine. The third said an enclosed photocopy of the original agreement proved my liability and to pay up now, or they would leave it to the Court. I replied to none of them. Then the letter today! I must say, I think they did presume I wouldn't file a defence (as you said previously), given I'd not responded to any previous letters. A 'punishment' of a CCJ with no real case at all. This has opened my eyes. Bastardos. I'm happy that they have to pay any costs and solicitors fees, in addition to my soon-to-be request that they come and remove the machine asap. Otherwise, I know someone who would be willing to help me dump it in the branch that hired it to me.. I hope this won't be necessary. Thank you more than I can express for the help you have given me. My great appreciation, and I hope you all have a fabulous Christmas! Thanks again Txxx

I'm getting worried about the timings (33 or 28 days) now so am submitting just the embarrassed defence and not counterclaiming. I think most of the Legals must be on holiday or not interested in this one! Thanks anyway. Will post up what happens next when I hear. I only hope they accept my Defence as it's a day late now according to the 28 day count.

Thanks C. Am OK to put whatever on that MCOL form because you can edit until you actually submit the whole thing. It saves for edit until then. Am having a look at the Counterclaim one. Best to do it now, I think.

Right, I hope I haven't mangled Clemma's letter too much in adding my own bits. I'm not sure if I've gone off the point at the end and should leave some stuff out. I haven't submitted it yet, just trying it out on MCOL for word-count. Any comments/suggestions welcome, and confirmation either way about whether I actually have 33 days (a five day leeway) to get this in would be helpful. Thinking of not doing the Counterclaim and going for the PPI thing separately with them after I see how this case goes. I'm not sure of best course of action really. Thanks again T ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, make this statement as my defence to the claim brought by BC SERVICES UK LTD RE: BOXCLEVER LTD. The claimant's particulars of claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action or explanation of the claim, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR, even allowing for the constraints of the Bulk Issue System. No documents supporting the claims in the particulars have been offered and despite a request under CPR31.14 to the claimant for further information (delivered to the Claimant according to Post Office Track & Trace on 13th July 2009) specifically 1)True copy of an Agreement 2) Breakdown of amount claimed in the Particulars of Claim 3) Copy each of any paper against which I am to defend myself, none has been forth-coming and as a result I cannot properly plead in defence to the claim. Should it be the claimant's position that the claim is brought under a regulated credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, yet the claimant claims statutory interest which the claimant should surely know it is not entitled to by virtue of the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991 (No. 1184 (L. 12)) in particular section 2 (3) which expressly prohibits such an award. The defendant contends that point 4 in itself amounts to a clear abuse of the process as the claimant would know the law and is trying to bring a claim for monies which it is not entitled to and knows that this is the case. Further, the defendant wishes to add the following: 1) No goods have been knowingly sold to the defendant by BC SERVICES UK LTD RE: BOXCLEVER LTD or 'boxclever' 2) There is no Agreement in place which constitutes a Purchase of Goods from BC SERVICES UK LTD RE: BOXCLEVER LTD or 'boxclever' to the defendant 3) The defendant had a Rental Agreement with 'boxclever' which began in 2001. The dates as stated on the Particulars of Claim no.:xxxxxxxxxx do not correspond to the aforementioned Rental Agreement. The Rental Agreement is between Home Technology Finance Ltd (Registered in England No. 3702428) trading as 'boxclever' and the defendant 4) The defendant has paid to the Claimant from 2001 - July 2008, almost 2000 pounds sterling for the use of a reconditioned washer dryer machine Rented to the defendant (see 3) above). The defendant also received a call from the Claimant offering to sell the now unresponsive machine for 30 pounds sterling after the defendant verbally ended the agreement in a telephone call. 'boxclever' is fully aware that this machine is very old, non-functioning and would never be further re-conditioned by the claimant. Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimants claim appears without merit. In view of that and the above, the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

Sorry to repost in here, but I think I put my original thread in the Debt Collection Industry forum maybe wrongly. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/207473-boxclever-toffee-4.html#post2307686 My 28 days from service date of 25th June are up today to get my defence in. I put in an AoS 3rd July. Should I repeat my case on here or leave it as a link to the other thread? Thanks so much in advance of any advice at all. Toffeewoman

It fits easily. Am shuffling about with my added bits now. Plenty of characters left! I see I have to do the counter-claim at the same time. ETA OK thanks for your help Clemma. I think I need to find the legal forum and maybe post a link in there.

Thanks Clemma, that's great! I think I will add my edited bits in. Hope it fits on the MCOL screen. I was reading a defence by CCM on another thread (could have been historic) and I think he said 33 days, so I still have time to get it printed and recorded delivery if it doesn't. I hope this is right. Do I still put in a Counterclaim, in view of my defence being embarassed? Or do I hold off and see what happens next? ETA Thanks GodMother - I missed your post first off.

Hi KF! You think so? I'm not sure of their MO now. Should I get my Defence in anyway? And then it's up to them and I'll email the Court in a few days to check up what's happening? I think you're probably right about the rolling over bit.. But I'm too annoyed with them to do that!

Eek! Tomorrow is the 22nd, the 28th day from the date on the Court papers. So my defence has to be emailed tomorrow. B Carter has sent me nothing in reply to the CPR request, delivered to him according to the Track & Trace on Monday 13th July. The three things I asked for in it were true copy of Agreement, breakdown of the amount sued for (as I have no idea what this charge is supposed to be for), & a copy of each of any other papers they plan to use in court that I must defend myself against. That was it. So now I have to write the defence. I need to know if I have to quote precedents in it? I'm not sure how to phrase things. In the absence of anything from BC, I was thinking of sticking to these main points: 1) No goods have been knowingly sold to me by Boxclever limited. 2) There is no Agreement in place which constitutes a Purchase of Goods from Boxclever to myself. 3) I had a Rental Agreement with Boxclever which began in 2001. The dates as stated on the Particulars of Claim do not correspond to the aforesaid Rental Agreement. (state both sets of dates) 4) A CPR31.14 request received by the claimant on 13th July 2009 has not yielded any response. This requested a breakdown of the amount claimed, A copy of the Agreement and any other documents against which I am to defend myself. Counterclaim Bones of claim: Forced mis-selling of PPI. Interest on that amount. Irresponsible reluctance of Claimant to end agreement despite knowing my personal circumstances. Costs & Administration Fees. Collection of the machine from my property. Any advice would be appreciated as soon as possible due to tomorrow's deadline, and very sorry for the late request. TIA Toffee

LOL! Abso-frickin-lutely! Have put together a preliminary defence now so plenty of time to add and amend. Just happy I have something done. Can be told what's cr*p and what's to be added later. Rah tid!

Yes I think you're right, K - unless your last day lands on a BH or w/end, in which case next working day. Not long to find out, then! Will post when/if I hear something (deadline next Friday) and also to compile the defence (deadline following Weds) nearer the time. I have other debt issues to sort out, so I may see you on other threads in the meantime! I'm still sorting through the paper-mountain I have here.. Keep well!

OK according to the AoS terms - I make 28 working days counting from 25th June to be up on 22nd July. If weekends don't count, then it has to be in by 4th August. I can't seem to find if it's working days or straight 28. AoS was received and processed by the Court on 3rd July. Thanks K

Cheers Clemma. OK - I'll double check when my deadline for filing the Defence is then. I can't miss that one. I've not asked them for much. Can't wait to see what they send re the Agreement.. I'm just glad that things like that I always keep. I may not know where they are temporarily though! Even if they manage to come up with the original, they're surely p*ssing in the wind as it's a Rental one. But we'll see.

Well, finally the letter has been sent off recorded & signed for this morning. I had to go late on yesterday in the end to get the letter done and access a printer. I stupidly didn't print out two copies at the time, but I saved it to her computer and will copy it out next week when I visit her again. I'm not sure if I put the right individual points in the letter, as I couldn't post up before sending it. I stuck to asking for a copy of the Agreement, and any other documents they would be relying on in court against which I must defend myself. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that, but I have anyway. It's difficult because they don't mention any documents at all in the Particulars of Claim, referring only to goods sold. Hope this is OK. I'm also not sure how much time I have to wait for them now, or is the ball in their court re sending me (or not) the documents or giving me more time, staying etc? June 25th was the date on the Court papers, then I entered the AoS online. Now I've sent off this CPR letter. If I've added it up correctly it's a further ten days plus five, unless I hear from them otherwise? Regardless, do I have to file a defence anyway in that timescale? TIA yet again for any clarification on this - it's wierd when you're doing this for the first time, doubting & questioning everything!

I don't feel scared any more, especially when I read those Particulars closely. They're all wrong. And going through the Agreement and it being pointed out they 'made' me take the insurance just makes me mad. Especially when I could have owned about 7 machines by now, with the dosh I've already paid out! But you guys give the courage, or rather the strength to summon it. And I may lose, but not without giving it a blummin' good try. Lets see what they have.

Thanks people. Yes, K, I read about that! I won't be signing anything! Some good news. I got in touch with the Court, and they said when I send in the defence it will override the AoS where I ticked the part liable bit. I can send in a defence without any of it. So as you have advised, I'm going to defend all of it (mainly because his wording is all wrong on Particulars) and counterclaim for the mis-sold insurance. I haven't sent off the CPR 31.14 yet as my friend wasn't home so I couldn't print it off. I've arranged to go tomorrow though, and will send it recorded/registered then. I'll post up when I've done it. You guys are good - it must have a lot to do with the current financial state the world's in, but I've noticed there are so many new posts and people in difficulty every day, and you manage to get round to everyone. Big ups to you all!

Hey again! I need to send off a CPR 31.14? This is the letter you pasted up on the previous page Clemma? I'll have every letter they ever sent me somewhere here, I just need to go through stacks of stuff to find them. Also, most of them weren't read when they were supposed to have been. The only thing I won't have is any taped conversations/transcripts. I haven't spoken or replied to BCarter at all. They may have a few calls from boxclever last year though. But it's just as well because then I have stuff to check against in case they're trying to pull a fast one. It will be interesting to see a copy of my Agreement to compare... I found the notification of litigation proceedings, dated/postmarked the same day as the Claim issue date papers (25th June). I need to get it prepared and go to my friend's to print it off. I can get this done by Monday afternoon and sent. Registered? Or should I post it here first so it can be checked I haven't screwed it up and then print & send? Probably better if I do that actually. Also, I went back on the MCoL site and logged on. It has my AoS filled out for extra time so I can only print or save that, but the other stuff like part claim/dispute claim/counterclaim still have the 'start' buttons, and I can still access them. I'll ring the court on Monday and check this out. Kerr-pOw! Fingers crossed..! Sleep well, peeps and tyvm. I'll look in tomorrow when I've got the letter ready to post up.

He's a busy little bee, isn't he? He's after me too. I wish you well and am new at this too, so will follow yours with interest. Good luck!

Better luck next year, hey. Hope Federer anihilates Roddick in 3 sets and sends him crying back over the Atlantic. Not that I'm bitter or anything... On Topic: Had a look at Court Fees in case it's decided the best route is Counterclaiming. Looks like I'm entitled to full remission due to receiving JSA. So that doesn't seem to be an issue. Sorry I'm being a bit of an edit freak - I need to write stuff down as I come across it or I'll probably forget!

It's close. 2-1 sets to Roddick, 5-5 in the 4th, Murray serving 40 - 15 at the mo. Tense one. 6-5 Murray in the 4th now. Roddick to serve and they're having a little sit down!

Cheers, pink ears! (Fab avatar!) Will do that. I think they were being spiteful when they added that on, in view of how much I've already paid. It's not like I broke the 18 month minimum hire period or anything... They seem to act like it's their own personal stuff you're stealing from them or something. Screaming at Murray now so taking a break. Thanks again. Hope you get home soon! Yet another edit: Just thinking that the Sale of Goods Act limitation thing could be why they've put a later start date of 2004?? They could be trying to sneak round it. A thought for later.

Clemma - I'll give it a go with the court. I'm wondering if I fill out the hard copy paper and send that in, saying disputing all of it, with a cover letter explaining my IT incompetence/fear etc would they accept it? I'm going to try it. Will send registered on Monday now. So enough time for someone to tell me not to if it's a bad idea! Thanks again everyone - it's really touching to feel the tremendous support here. xx Edit - yes Hire Agreement only, then they put that price on after I missed those few months payment. They're putting the boot in and punishing me for not paying. What better now than a default and CCJ for 6 years. Such schitz.

kiptower: Yes they are - unless as I said, they've taken into account the fact they've billed me for the price of the whole machine, on top of those few months? And are now saying I bought it because they've charged it to me? That's why a) I need to find the letter, and b) I need a breakdown of how that charge is made up in the PoC. They had no intention of sending me a replacement - they were charging me a big price for the broke one I have. I think I wasn't clear or you misunderstood my previous post about that. I can see a lot of sorting and rummaging going on in the next few days...! Urrrgh! Has to be done, though.

Thanks HAS, I haven't heard of that. If it's without the cost it can only be good! And I can use this despite the fact my AoS says I've admitted part of the claim? Good if so. Been looking around for lifespans and official data on this machine, but it's so old there doesn't appear to be much, if any. Found several people who've mentioned it on review sites who've said it's terrible, permanently breaking down. New machines appear to be expected to last from upwards of 9 years. Some sites are saying 10-14 and even more. But this wasn't brand new. I may write to the Hotpoint site and see what they say. Gawd! ETA Cheers Kiptower. I'll see if that's possible. I'll put everything I can on to my draft defence so that it'll make it easier come the time to just c&p bits as needed. When it gets nearer and the court specialists have a look, we can decide which is the best route to go. It's great to know that I have at least a couple of options - a couple more than I thought I had yesterday! But you're right. I should have hung fire and waited before I did the AoS. I had another week so I wish I hadn't been so hasty now. Heigh ho!