VCS - PCN - Have I slipped up by corresponding with them?

[Riscyrich]

Hi all,

 

New to the site, have to say that it great and has lots of useful info. Thanks in advance to all the contributors to the site.

 

Anyway, to the matter in hand. My father has received a Parking Charge Notice for failing to display a valid ticket in a Pay & Display area in Leeds. He has in fact purchased and displayed the ticket although the machine that dispensed it didn't print it that clearly (which I think is the reason for the charge).

 

 

Before I landed on this site I wrote a letter for him to send them refuting the charge and enclosed a copy of the ticket purchased.

 

 

We've had a letter back from Vehicle Control Services (Sheffield) stating that it wasn't displayed in accordance with the T&C's of the site in question, not displayed in the windscreen etc (which it was stuck to) and hence they will not be revoking the charge. If we don't pay up by xxth June then the £80 goes up to £120. Failure to comply may result in the issue of court proceedings, further costs etc etc

 

 

Just at a loss as to what to do now. I was going to write to them to once again refute the charge and ask for evidence of their claim but am unsure now as to enter into any further correspondence?

 

 

What you guys think? I apologise in advance for posting a threat similar to others but I couldn't really pin point the answers I was looking for.

 

 

 

All the best,

 

 

Rich

[Riscyrich]

[Al27]

There is no appeals process. It's a private company. They wouldn't last long if they allowed 'appeals'. Hence why you got their templated rejection letter back.

 

It's a [problem]. A mail based one at that - they WANT you to contact them, which is the whole point of the phoney appeals procedure.

 

• do not pay

• do not contact them

• ignore their threatening junkmail

• ignore any rubbish from powerless debt collectors

• they will give up and go away

 

What you guys think? I apologise in advance for posting a threat similar to others but I couldn't really pin point the answers I was looking for.

 

Every private parking thread says the same thing! Ignore!

[crem]

Ignore, you have done nothing wrong.

[pin1onu]

There is no appeals process. Let me paraphrase the letter...........

 

Dear Sir,

 

Thank you for your letter. We've balanced your appeal against our being paid and decided we need the money.

 

The fact that you paid and our machine was faulty did not enter into our consideration of the matter, nor the fact that a judge will think it highly pertinent. The fact we're claiming more than our actual damages is irrelevant here as well. We don't care about the fact that its a contractural penalty either.

 

In closing we claim that you're not the messiah just a very naughty boy. So pay up sucker or we'll set our debt collectors on you and if you're extremely lucky we'll take you to court

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ignore them, Ignore them, Ignore them...........

[Repulse]

It is all a con.Sometimes they do not even have a legitimate contract with you. Even if they do, they are not entitled to the amounts they claim. It is a golden rule in damages under contract law that the party awarded the damages is NOT permitted to make a profit. They are ONLY allowed to be put in the position they would have been in but for the breach. So if parking cost £1.00 per hour and you stay for two but only pay for one, what is required to put them in the position they would have been in but for your breach? Easy, £1.00 and not any telephone number in favour with them on that day.

 

They dare not take you to court, not just because they know that you do not owe the money they claim but also because they can never recover from you what it will cost them to go to court. Remember they are a limited company which means it does not matter where you committed the 'offence' the case will be automatically transferred to your home court. So if they are in Exeter and the PCN arose from your parking in Dover then, if you live in Carlisle, that is where the case will be heard. How much will it cost them to send someone to Carlisle? How much to hire a solicitor in Carlisle? Apart from court fees no costs are recoverable in the county court unless the claim is for more than £5,000.00. Whatever we may think of them they are commercial organisations acting like any other, that is, for profit. Where is the profit in spending, say, £500.00 to win £150.00?

 

There are two other good reasons for not taking you to court, although they may not realise one of them. Think of the Emperor's new clothes, it only works as long as no one realises he has no clothes on. Court would expose their activities as just a [problem]. Why take that risk for £150.00. I have been thinking whether the actions of some of these companies is actually criminal. A District Judge is the level of judge who would deal with these cases. They are all ex-solicitors. Most would have dealt with criminal law during their career, and believe me some of them have minds that would make a razor look dull. If their actions raise a doubt about their legality, some District Judge is going to think it. He (or she), although they are hearing a civil case can refer matters to the 'proper authorities' (as they say) if they believe a crime might have been committed.

 

Fear not, these companies have far more to fear from you than you have from them. It is just that in general we are a law abiding and fair minded society that does not like to defy what appears to be authority. They cynically play on this. They have you thinking along the railway lines they have set out for you. Think outside those lines and take the initiative away from them. You will be surprised what you will think of.

 

Re your ticket. It is not a parking permit, it is just a receipt for the money you have paid to park. Otherwise how will you be able to show that you have paid? No one can tell you what you must display in your windscreen (except for the police and the road fund disc - but that is because the law says so). However commonsense suggests that displaying it on your windscreen will help everyone including your self.

They will not take your father to court, but in the unlikely event that they do, just produce the receipt - end of case. I bet you cannot get another ticket like the one your father had, therefor it must be genuine.

 

One last point about the appeal, as someone else has commented you were never going to win it. You should have told them your father is the Pope and that he was in the Vatican all that day. He would still lose the appeal.

[Riscyrich]

Guys 1st of all thanks for all the advice, you're all legends...

 

Trying to play a straight bat I as I tend to do I sent a few letters in our defence to VCS. Just kept getting letters back saying no further appeals will be accepted, no letters will be responded to (although they did), we'll take you to court, pay within 7 days etc.

 

So as per the advice I'm going to ignore this now as I had my fill of snotty letter writing this quarter. I'll update thread if necessary - if I post no further updates on this matter may I say thanks again for all the help and advice.

 

Regards,

Rich

[dx100uk]

assign to the round filing cabinet!

 

dx

[letshelp]

Repulse sums it up perfectly.

regards

[Riscyrich]

Whilst I was posting about a fine a friend of mine got in dollars I thought I'd update this thread.

 

To date I have had nothing back from VCS other than a letter from them on the 13th July confirming that they understand I want to go to court and they are going to pass the matter to their 'litigation team', oh and they still want £120.

 

I'm on the edge of my seat...

[crem]

 

I'm on the edge of my seat...

 

Careful you don't fall off waiting coz it could be a while.

[londoncass]

if you speak to them again ... thank them for leaving me alone when I ignored their tickets and demands about 3 years ago!

[Riscyrich]

Roger wilco !

[letshelp]

their 'litigation team',

Not their 'litigation team'

regards

[Riscyrich]

An update:

 

As I've been dealing with this on behalf of my father I (as in not my father) have received a threatening letter from Graham White Solicitors of Surrey

 

 

I've phoned them (solicitors) and told them not to write me threatening et all and to write to the person who has the PCN issued etc. I've also told them that we are happy to attend court and not to write to us any more. Failing this we will be looking to take legal action against them for harassment.

 

What you guys think?

 

R

Edited October 12, 2009 by Riscyrich

[Al27]

Bit silly phoning them. Two letters from Graham White is the norm, then they give up.

 

You seem to one of those people who just cannot ignore!

[Riscyrich]

Ah, now I know that - wish someone had mentioned Graham White's before.

 

I know I've been silly and now that the red mist has settled I regret it, I just loose it when it comes to nasty letters from solicitors...

 

Anyway, I made our intentions clear to their call centre staff member who said he fully understood me. I shall kept a recording of the phone call just in case...

[Al27]

Don't worry. Just ignore any further rubbish that comes through your door or phonecalls.

[Riscyrich]

I'm not so bothered to be honest, it's my old man that craps himself when things like this land in the post. Probably the very reason people like this are making money

[pin1onu]

I'm not so bothered to be honest, it's my old man that craps himself when things like this land in the post. Probably the very reason people like this are making money

I'm guessing your dad's an an honest, upright, law-abiding type, like most of us. They are exactly the sort of person that these [problematic] target. They dress their correspondence up to look official in attempt to [problem] people.

 

The good news is that you're near the end of the process.

 

If he wants to see some examples of how unlawful they are being you could do worse than to get him to read this guide.

[asmodeus]

have received a threatening letter from Graham White Solicitors of Surrey

 

 

Par for the course ignore and do the same for the next one which should be your last. As with all junk mail it belongs in the recycle bin.

 

If you must write then why not give them a taste of junk mailings and sign them them up via all the postage paid adverts - double glazing, time shares etc. list is endless. Maybe sorting through a mountain of this each day will make them clean up there act (beware of the porcine flying club)

e.g.

Jonathan Stock

Roxbughe House

Lavender Park Road

West Byfleet

Surrey

KT14 6YX

 

They probably have signed up to the mail preference service but some will get through

Edited October 13, 2009 by asmodeus
Typos (as usual)

[Conned Sumer]

Ah now I was posting in the main thread at the top but this is more relevent

I had a phone call from these solicitors before they sent a letter

and unfortunately I confirmed my name before realising who it was

 

still using the ignore route,but of course they have heard the registered keepers voice now...

 

will await the second letter and then see what happens

[hanley duck]

but of course they have heard the registered keepers voice now...

 

And...?

 

will await the second letter and then see what happens

 

Nothing happens, second letter is the last one. Then they go away.

[Conned Sumer]

cheers Hanley Duck

I was hoping that was the case