Debt collection agency wants money for something I haven't purchased

[XA09]

Hi all,

These forums are so well organised I'm not sure if this is even in the right place!

 

Long story short... a company setup a direct debit with my bank without my knowledge and took about £20 out. I spoke to my bank and they cancelled the DD and refunded my money as I didn't purchase anything from this company. This happened about two weeks ago.

 

Today I received a letter from a debt collection agency requesting the money I got refunded and for an extra £20.

 

Not quite sure what to do? I'm going to send them an email explaining the situation but I somehow feel that won't do much good either. I'm going to go to the citizens advice bureau tomorrow.

 

Here is a scan of the letter:

 

 

Any help is appreciated! Thanks

[Bazooka Boo]

When you know nothing of the debt.

 

Send them the above letter template, edit to suit, and send it recorded delivery.

[cerberusalert]

Send them this recorded delivery;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account no:

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

**Edit to suit**

 

Remember, don’t sign the letter.

[harrassed senior]

I hope you have made a formal complaint to your bank - they should not have paid the Direct Debit in the first place!

[babybear39]

The letter is too small to read sorry. Can you post the image to something like photobucket and then re post it here please?

[XA09]

Wow you guys are good Thank you!

 

Do you think there is any point in seeing the Citizens Advice Bureau or should I just send the letter?

 

 

I hope you have made a formal complaint to your bank - they should not have paid the Direct Debit in the first place!

I haven't. I spoke to them over the phone and went to see them all in the same day.. apparantly if a direct debit is setup online only the account number and sort code are checked... it is only the account name and such that is checked at a later date if issues occur.

 

I made sure that they are going to call me in future before setting up any more DD's.

 

 

Edit:

The letter is too small to read sorry. Can you post the image to something like photobucket and then re post it here please?

 

It's fine, if you click on the link then click on the image it will take you to the larger image

 

Here is the direct link if its easier: http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/5558/webbilling.jpg

[mr.ton]

The CAB cant offer any advice that you wont get on her better

[babybear39]

That link was much better thanks. Report them to TS and the OFT for breaching OFT guidlines and the CPUTR 2008 by asking you to pay by credit card thus putting you into more debt.

[XA09]

Can I just ask why I shouldn't sign the letter?

 

The CAB cant offer any advice that you wont get on her better

 

That link was much better thanks. Report them to TS and the OFT for breaching OFT guidlines and the CPUTR 2008 by asking you to pay by credit card thus putting you into more debt.

 

Oh god that sounds tricky. If this letter doesn't stop them than I shall!

 

 

Edit: Also who should I address it to? Just Legal Recoveries & Collections LTD? Because if I send it via recorded mail I'll be asked for a name? Should I just give them that?

[babybear39]

We advise against signing anything wth your proper signature as it's rumoured that some unscrupilous DCAs get creative with photoshop

 

Send the letter to the chasing DCA.

[XA09]

We advise against signing anything wth your proper signature as it's rumoured that some unscrupilous DCAs get creative with photoshop

 

Send the letter to the chasing DCA.

I see.. very dirty!

 

Where it asks for the name of the recipent on the slip though should I just put the company name rather than the individuals name?

[babybear39]

If you have an individual put that or the company name will do.

[XA09]

OK thanks for your help everyone it's really appreciated!

 

I'll keep you updated.

[postggj]

Lrc

 

Now Thats A Name Ive Not Heard Of In A While.

And Yes In The Past I Have Had The Pleasure.

 

Notice It Goes Straight For The Throat

Pay Up By Xyz Or We Will Go To Court And Claim Costs

 

No Proof Of The Debt

Nothing

 

Seriouse Complaint Is In Order Me Thinks

[XA09]

Well I sent the letter off to them on the 10th June via recorded mail. However according to the tracking number on the royal mail website it has just been accepted by the post office: "Item BRXXXXXXXXXGB has been accepted at c/o Spar Store XXXX XXX on 10/06/09"

 

Does this mean they haven't signed for the letter?

 

I also received the following letter from them today:

(Direct link: http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9310/webbilling2copy.jpg)

 

So are they ignoring my letter/refusing to sign for it?

[lickthewallfatboy]

let them take you to court--call their bluff

 

how stupid will they look then?

[Blondmusic]

I have had a lot of problems with Royal Mail too. I have sent at least 3 letters by Recorded Delivery and it still says Accepted at Post Office 3 weeks after i sent it. I suggest a phone call to Royal Mail Customer Services (they take forever to respond by email) and ask them if they can tell you if it is delivered. If the can't tell you if it has been delivered or not then you can fill our a P58 form (down loadable from Royal Mail Website) and send it to them. Fill this out 15 working days after you sent the letter Recorded Delivery. You should be able to get compensation as you have paid for the letter to be signed for and Royal Mail have not provided the service. I hope this helps.

[Huff&Puff]

I know some DCAs think that they're a law unto themselves, but setting up a direct debit without the persons knowledge or agreement sounds a lot like straightforward theft to me

 

This one definitely warrnts complaints to OFT and Trading Standards IMO. And maybe to the police as well.

 

I've also got a feeling that this "debt" is a [problem], I'll do a bit of digging I think.

[XA09]

I know some DCAs think that they're a law unto themselves, but setting up a direct debit without the persons knowledge or agreement sounds a lot like straightforward theft to me

 

This one definitely warrnts complaints to OFT and Trading Standards IMO. And maybe to the police as well.

 

I've also got a feeling that this "debt" is a [problem], I'll do a bit of digging I think.

So what should I do? I'd really appreciate that. Thanks

[IdaInFife]

I would also be concerned that if you did not give your bank details to set up the dd someone else has.

 

 

ida x

[XA09]

As this post is on page 2, please see this post on page 1: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2232807.html

 

I would also be concerned that if you did not give your bank details to set up the dd someone else has.

 

 

ida x

Yeah this was my original thought. However the bank seemed to think otherwise... I'm not sure what to believe.

 

What's the next step then? just wait and see!? or should I report them to the OFT & Trading Standards? If I do this how should I go about it? Should I send the original letter to the DCA again or is it pointless?

 

 

Thanks

[XA09]

Anything anyone? I really need a point in the right direction not quite sure what to do. I'm tempted to send another copy of the original letter...

[Bazooka Boo]

Just done a very quick search for webbilling.com and it came up with this:cool:

Webbilling.com

 

If you read the statement on the left hand side :

User Support

 

You've found a Webbilling.com debit on your bank account and would like to receive information considering this entry? Our User Support will help you. Please click on User Support.

Clicking on the 'user support' link takes you to another screen with a drop down menu, with very little relevant info!

 

If that is the reply you received from them, then have you seen confirmation on the RM website that your letter was received? The link above will take you straight to their tracking service where you enter your tracking number and then you should be able to view and print off the signature for your records.

 

It might have been that both letters crossed in the post:lol: and that they didn't have chance to tell the computer to stop generating the next threatogramme.

 

Have you reported them to the OFT?

[email protected]

Have a browse through the debt collection guidelines, and report them for each and every breach of these guidelines that you find!:grin:

 

As for the letter, it holds no water, a standard threatogramme which is generated by a computer. If they fail to update the computer with the relevant details it will continue to churn these empty threats out, getting more ridiculous and far fetched as they go on, up until they send you a 'one time offer' of a 'reduced payment'

complete twaddle, so long as you have copies of all correspondence between you and them then 'IF' and it is such a bloody big 'IF' they can even get it to court, for such a ridiculous punitive amount, then the judge will most certainly want to know why they failed to follow the OFT guidelines by ignoring your perfectly legitimate question.

 

I wouldn't send them anything further until you can find out whether your letter did arrive with them before they sent you your latest reply. Which come to think of it, even if RM were having a bad day, your letter would have surely been received by them at the latest 3 days after you posted it, so say the 13th (Sat-my Bday!) and the date on their computer generated threat was the 16th, so yes, I'd stick my neck out and say they are hoping you won't know your rights and are ignoring you:eek:

 

You could always incorporate the 'bemused letter' with the 'no debt is acknowledged' letter?

Something along the lines of:

 

Dear LRC

I recently responded to a letter which you sent to me dated the 8th June 09.

I replied to you on the 10th June 09 via recorded delivery which you received on 11th June 09 (edit to suit) In my letter, I clearly stated that I do not have any knowledge of any debt being owed to you or any company which you purport to represent, and I clearly stated that you were to provide me with evidence to the contrary if indeed you believe that I do owe this alleged debt.

 

However, your reply to this was to aggressively threaten me with Court action, in which you incorrectly assume that I owe this alleged debt, and that you will win any legal action you may bring. I am somewhat bemused by your attitude, and that you make these threats without producing any evidence, saying that I am in fact liable for the sum in question.

 

I will remind you that I am familiar with the OFT guidelines on debt collection, and have forwarded a complaint to the OFT about your agressive and threatening correspondence, and your non-compliance with their guidelines.

I expect a copy of your complaints procedure to be sent on receipt of this letter.

 

I refer you back to my original letter dated the 10th June 09, which you received on the 11th June 09 (edit to suit)

And that I have no knowledge of any debt to you or your company.

 

All correspondence must be in writing only, all of my telephone calls are recorded, I look forward to a prompt response and that this matter is now closed unless you are able to supply me with evidence as to this debt.

 

 

 

Yours,

(print don't sign your name)

 

 

 

Thats the sort of thing I would send, others will be able to tell you if you should or not, I don't think legally there is anything which will trap you, and you don't need to put 'without prejudice' on it as you want to be able to produce it in court, IF it ever gets that far:D

 

P.S. I would certainly look at making a formal complaint to your bank aswell, especially if they don't seem too interested!

I questioned a DD on my acct, and they paid me back in full within five days, so did the company who took the money!

Edited June 18, 2009 by Bazooka Boo
P.S.

[XA09]

Just done a very quick search for webbilling.com and it came up with this:cool:

Webbilling.com

 

If you read the statement on the left hand side :

Clicking on the 'user support' link takes you to another screen with a drop down menu, with very little relevant info!

 

If that is the reply you received from them, then have you seen confirmation on the RM website that your letter was received? The link above will take you straight to their tracking service where you enter your tracking number and then you should be able to view and print off the signature for your records.

 

It might have been that both letters crossed in the post:lol: and that they didn't have chance to tell the computer to stop generating the next threatogramme.

 

Have you reported them to the OFT?

[email protected]

Have a browse through the debt collection guidelines, and report them for each and every breach of these guidelines that you find!:grin:

 

As for the letter, it holds no water, a standard threatogramme which is generated by a computer. If they fail to update the computer with the relevant details it will continue to churn these empty threats out, getting more ridiculous and far fetched as they go on, up until they send you a 'one time offer' of a 'reduced payment'

complete twaddle, so long as you have copies of all correspondence between you and them then 'IF' and it is such a bloody big 'IF' they can even get it to court, for such a ridiculous punitive amount, then the judge will most certainly want to know why they failed to follow the OFT guidelines by ignoring your perfectly legitimate question.

 

I wouldn't send them anything further until you can find out whether your letter did arrive with them before they sent you your latest reply. Which come to think of it, even if RM were having a bad day, your letter would have surely been received by them at the latest 3 days after you posted it, so say the 13th (Sat-my Bday!) and the date on their computer generated threat was the 16th, so yes, I'd stick my neck out and say they are hoping you won't know your rights and are ignoring you:eek:

 

You could always incorporate the 'bemused letter' with the 'no debt is acknowledged' letter?

Something along the lines of:

 

Dear LRC

I recently responded to a letter which you sent to me dated the 8th June 09.

I replied to you on the 10th June 09 via recorded delivery which you received on 11th June 09 (edit to suit) In my letter, I clearly stated that I do not have any knowledge of any debt being owed to you or any company which you purport to represent, and I clearly stated that you were to provide me with evidence to the contrary if indeed you believe that I do owe this alleged debt.

 

However, your reply to this was to aggressively threaten me with Court action, in which you incorrectly assume that I owe this alleged debt, and that you will win any legal action you may bring. I am somewhat bemused by your attitude, and that you make these threats without producing any evidence, saying that I am in fact liable for the sum in question.

 

I will remind you that I am familiar with the OFT guidelines on debt collection, and have forwarded a complaint to the OFT about your agressive and threatening correspondence, and your non-compliance with their guidelines.

I expect a copy of your complaints procedure to be sent on receipt of this letter.

 

I refer you back to my original letter dated the 10th June 09, which you received on the 11th June 09 (edit to suit)

And that I have no knowledge of any debt to you or your company.

 

All correspondence must be in writing only, all of my telephone calls are recorded, I look forward to a prompt response and that this matter is now closed unless you are able to supply me with evidence as to this debt.

 

 

 

Yours,

(print don't sign your name)

 

 

 

Thats the sort of thing I would send, others will be able to tell you if you should or not, I don't think legally there is anything which will trap you, and you don't need to put 'without prejudice' on it as you want to be able to produce it in court, IF it ever gets that far:D

 

P.S. I would certainly look at making a formal complaint to your bank aswell, especially if they don't seem too interested!

I questioned a DD on my acct, and they paid me back in full within five days, so did the company who took the money!

 

Yeah I've seen the website, was one of the first things I did before even contacting my bank.

 

I've been onto the RM website and put in the tracking number, as said in a previous post all it says is that the letter has been 'accepted' by the post office. There is no confirmation that it has been delivered to the receipent. I haven't had the letter returned to me either though.

 

I haven't reported them to the OFT but I will certainly do that, thanks

 

I'm not worrying about it too much simply because I know they have no proof, they can try and take me to court if they want but like I just said.. they have no proof. The letter would have definetly been received by now though as I sent it via 1st class recorded mail, which takes a maximum of 5 working days I believe? Has been 6 working days today.

 

I'll get that template sent off to them via recorded mail. I'll send the original one with it too. If they don't accept this one I'm not sending any more cos it's costing me over a quid a letter which I shouldn't even be paying!

 

 

I'm not sure what to actually complain about with the bank. They seemed quite calm about things.. and I did get the money back later on in the day! So I can't complain about the service really. They didn't seem too concerned about how it happened though. Is it really worth complaining? It's not like I'd benefit from it?

 

 

 

Thanks for the help

[Bazooka Boo]

OK yeah I agree, if the bank has refunded you the money then it would be pretty pointless in escalating the complaint further.

 

As for the clowns who have told you to pay the money before midnight or you'll grow a long tail and pointed ears, they definitely need pulling down a peg or two, and I would strongly recommend you make a formal complaint to the OFT, giving them both copies of their threatogrammes, although they do not look into individual complaints, they do take into account the number of complaints they receive for each company and when it reaches a certain level then they will investigate:D so you never know, your complaint might be the one that breaks the camels back!

 

If you email RM and ask them to specifically look into your registered mail that you sent, they will normally get back to you within 7 days, especially if you mention that you are looking at getting a refund for services you paid for but haven't received!