Parking across empty driveways

[green_and_mean]

Thanks...this S.I. applies to England, so not for just outside London. This implies that the powers that be knew that dropped footways within London were not legally enforceable as the TMA 2004 failed to include section 14 of the LLA&TfL act 2003 meaning that to enforce dropped footways under the TMA 2004 required them to be signed.

 

It would have served no purpose to just ammend the statute just outside London. The aim of the TMA is to eventually use the same legislation for parking, bus lanes and moving traffic nationwide and move away from London using various LLA. The power to enforce drop kerbs using has been used in London since the LLA 2003. Your frequently used argument that the TMA only allows for enforcement in 'parking places' is flawed due to you interpretation of a parking place.

[TheBogsDollocks]

It would have served no purpose to just ammend the statute just outside London. The aim of the TMA is to eventually use the same legislation for parking, bus lanes and moving traffic nationwide and move away from London using various LLA. The power to enforce drop kerbs using has been used in London since the LLA 2003. Your frequently used argument that the TMA only allows for enforcement in 'parking places' is flawed due to you interpretation of a parking place.

 

It's not my interpretation of "parking place" it's the one given in legislation and if it's so flawed why has it been so successful in appeal cases?

[green_and_mean]

It's not my interpretation of "parking place" it's the one given in legislation and if it's so flawed why has it been so successful in appeal cases?

 

What legislation?

[TheBogsDollocks]

What legislation?

 

We are going off topic when we should be focusing on helping the OP and besides you should know what legislation as you tell me my interpretation is flawed and to make such a statement one would hope that you must have read the legislation but you will find it all within these. If you have any problems you can pm me.

 

Results within legislation - Statute Law Database

 

Results within legislation - Statute Law Database

[green_and_mean]

We are going off topic when we should be focusing on helping the OP and besides you should know what legislation as you tell me my interpretation is flawed and to make such a statement one would hope that you must have read the legislation but you will find it all within these. If you have any problems you can pm me.

 

Results within legislation - Statute Law Database

 

Results within legislation - Statute Law Database

 

It hasn't gone off topic the OP was asking for clarification on the legislation relating to drop kerbs.

Whilst you have quoted 2 statutes you have failed to identify the definition of a parking place in relation to section 6 of the RTRA 1984? Using your argument there is still no current legislation to enforce drop kerbs since the TMA section 86 does not allow the issuing of PCNs for the 'offence' it merely makes it a contrtavention as if an order under section 6 RTRA which you maintain is not enforceable outside a 'parking place'.

However a parking place is somewhere a vehicle is permitted to wait which is not the same as a designated parking place or an off-street parking place. All parking places are subject to any restrictions as stated in the order that covers them, ie in a parking place for permit holders only permit holders may wait. The parking place adjacent to a drop kerb has the conditions as stated in the LLA 2003/TMA2004 applied to it as if it were created under an order created by sect 6 RTRA 1984.

To simplify matters lets pretend the TMA didn't exist and you had a drop kerb that was getting blocked. The Council would have to make an order under sect 6 that stated only you could park outside your house in the parking place adj to your drive and errect signage to say so. Fortunately the need for both signage and an individual order is removed by current legislaton.

[citizenkain]

Im just chipping in here!,heres a story.....two years ago I owned a flat it had a separate garage round the corner,in a block,access to it via the public highway,anyway,I owned the garage and the area in front of the garage,lets say a cars length so I used to park the car on the area in front of the garage,my land,as I had a motorcycle as well,i used to park that in the garage,I could easy squeeze the bike past the car and get in and out the garage,all was ok in the world for me!!,the neighbour who lived at the corner of the garage decided to take his fence down and put a gate up then hes telling me I cant park in front of my garage,on my land as he now needs the access!!!Obviously he didnt get it,Im just pointing out even if someone has an access/drive etc it doesnt mean its legal!!!!!!

[TheBogsDollocks]

Thank god for the new legislation so I and others no longer have to keep having this debate with you. It's been fun though and painful lol!

 

By the way, I have another argument prepared in readiness for the new legislation in regard to dropped footway cases that you will enjoy knocking just as much.

[green_and_mean]

There is or was a flaw under the LLA and that was that you could not enforce a drop kerb if there was a waiting restriction in force. This was overlooked and not widely known which didn't really matter since both restrictions are essentially the same. However some Councils gave Blue Badge holders PCNs for parking on a drop kerb when in fact technically they should not have done so.

[lamma]

another one that councils knew about and still issued tickets for. not a pretty picture.

[Acco123498]

A friend of mine had a bit of a dispute with a neighbour , he didnt park across his drive way, just parked an old road legal car outside the neighbours house because he was fed up with him parking his big van there. The neighbour responded by attaching a tow rope to my friends parked car and dragging it up the road, so he could park the van back there.

The police were not really interested at all, as they said my friend had antagonised the neighbour by parking the old car there in the first place.

 

so maybe the moral of this is, that if you do park across someones drive way and you return to your car having been dragged up the road and dumped somewhere else, its quite possible the police would not be too bothered either in this case. or even if its not dragged up the road, but you return to it and later find keyed or something it would not be too suprising really.

[lakelouise]

I was told no so long ago by a police officer that an old bylaw was that a house owner has a legal right to get their car off their own property, therefore you cannot block a driveway with a car in it, but you can however park over a driveway IF there is no car in it/or garaged there because a house owner does not have automatic right of access onto their drive.

 

This is just what I was told so I don't have any legislation to back it up.

[majik]

What about people who dig up there front garden and brick it over to park cars on but have no dropped kerb ?

 

My neighbour has done this, has space for 3 cars but never uses it and by doing that has taken away the road parking by 2 parking spaces ?

 

so instead on people parking on the road as they would normally he claims that as he has a drive no one can park there, fair enough if its used but it hasn't been used once in the last 8 months ?

 

this has made parking a lot harder in my area as he still parks his car on the road etc !!!

 

Can you "block" the driveway as it has no dropped kerb ?

[jeccapf]

you seem to be limiting which acts you are reviewing to decide the legal issues for this, there are other issues apart from traffic law, such as quiet enjoyment and even public order laws. I am aware of a case in Luton, where someone parked across an empty drive, the owner of the drive came back and wanted access, the owner of the car blocking it couldnt be contacted so the drive owner called the Police who traced the car owner and arrested them for breach of the public order act s4 - I never followed this case up after this but since the average time being dealt with after arrest is 5 hours in the cells, I would wonder if the blocking cars owner still thought it was worth parking over someones access.

[RichardM]

What about people who dig up there front garden and brick it over to park cars on but have no dropped kerb ?

 

My neighbour has done this, has space for 3 cars but never uses it and by doing that has taken away the road parking by 2 parking spaces ?

 

so instead on people parking on the road as they would normally he claims that as he has a drive no one can park there, fair enough if its used but it hasn't been used once in the last 8 months ?

 

this has made parking a lot harder in my area as he still parks his car on the road etc !!!

 

Can you "block" the driveway as it has no dropped kerb ?

 

 

If the hardstand was built after 1st October 2008, unless it was built using porous materials (ie bricks which allow water to permeate into the soil, he would have had to have planning permission to build the hardstand. Additionally, you must have planning permission if it accesses an A B or C classification road.

 

Coupled with that, if the curb hasn't been dropped, the chances are he has not appraoched the local authority to do the work and is committing an offence under section 184 of the Highway's Act 1980 (driving on the pavement).

 

As your neighbour hasn't got a dropped curb, you have every right to park across his hardstand. If this causes grief, remind him that he has obligations that he has to carry out and that if he wishes to maintain access he has to go through proper channels. Alternatively, ask the planning office if there has been any application made if the surface doesn't conform to regs.

 

Our local authority have recently been doing a lot of resurfacing on the council estates and have sent out letters offering residents the opportunity to get a dropped curb for £200 instead of the normal £700+. But they have also threatened that those who don't have a dropped curb to access a previously built hardstanding and don't apply may be subject to prosecution in the future under section 184.