Anatomy of a Default Notice

[frettful38]

Hi DD, sorry to crash in but I have been searching high and low through the forums about the DN i received today and have not had much luck. I even started a new thread.

I have learned a lot about DN's from great caggers as yourself but most them only advise about DN's regulated by the CCA74. I don't know what law or act covers my DN received today and have been looking all over the net. Could you suggest where I could find out the info I need please?

[diddydicky]

ive had a look but have to say that my knowledge regarding unregulated loans is not strong

 

i have hit the triangle for the site team to take a look so that someone more experienced might be able to help you

[frettful38]

Thanks DD

[hammyhound]

"terminated" would also include- in the intervening period - any demand for payment of sums that were "not yet due" under the agreement- or indeed any actions taken by the creditor that clearly demonstrate that he considers the agreement to be at an end

 

DD

 

If a default notice is issued and then the creditor takes you to court but decides to withdraw and then issues another default notice where I would stand. Something tells me they are preparing to issue court proceedings but the way I look at it is and forgive me if I am totally wrong and would like your expert assistance but if I default and they take me to court that means the contract has been terminated and thereby issuing another default notice is pointless as there is no contract to default or have I got that totally wrong.

 

Other side asked me to sign a consent order but the day after I received a new default notice and the balance has risen by nearly £5000.

 

HH

[steven4064]

I have answered on your thread, fretful

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/257907-frettful-lender-2.html

[frettful38]

I have answered on your thread, fretful

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/257907-frettful-lender-2.html

 

Thank you steven4064

[pumpytums]

DD

 

If a default notice is issued and then the creditor takes you to court but decides to withdraw and then issues another default notice where I would stand. Something tells me they are preparing to issue court proceedings but the way I look at it is and forgive me if I am totally wrong and would like your expert assistance but if I default and they take me to court that means the contract has been terminated and thereby issuing another default notice is pointless as there is no contract to default or have I got that totally wrong.

 

Other side asked me to sign a consent order but the day after I received a new default notice and the balance has risen by nearly £5000.

 

HH

 

As you said Hammy the very act of taking you to court is termination(demanding sums not yet due), the agreement has now finished they cannot just give you a new DN as that indicates that the agreement is on going which it cannot be and can be remedied.

Out of interest was the DN sent from sink? Was it in their hand or the OC's?

 

Pumpytums

[DeBilde]

I have received a letter from Moorcroft today stating they are collecting on behalf of Argos Card Services. They have asked me to pay the full balance or contact them in 7 days to arrange payment.

 

Does this mean they have terminated the agreement? I hope so as the DN they sent was invalid as they asked for payment within 14 days to clear the arrears.

[vint1954]

Yes it does. If you are sure that the DN is defective, send the Unlawfull Rescission letter soon.

[DeBilde]

Thanks Vint. Who do I send it to? Argos or Moorcroft? If it is Argos what do I send Moorcroft?

[vint1954]

Thanks Vint. Who do I send it to? Argos or Moorcroft? If it is Argos what do I send Moorcroft?

To Argos at their registered office. Copy to Moorcroft.

[hammyhound]

As you said Hammy the very act of taking you to court is termination(demanding sums not yet due), the agreement has now finished they cannot just give you a new DN as that indicates that the agreement is on going which it cannot be and can be remedied.

Out of interest was the DN sent from sink? Was it in their hand or the OC's?

 

Pumpytums

 

Thanks Pumpytums it is with RBS. BTW the original DN was valid, the ones they have just sent are invalid they forgot tomorrow's bank holiday so are a day out for service dated 29th April received Friday first class post 2 days for service brings it to Tuesday and then 14 days which is 18th May, theirs says 17th May;)

 

This is what I could not get my head around, surely if they commence court proceedings that is termination. They should not really issue fresh proceedings. If they do I will refer to the previous proceedings. I have been on a high since they withdraw and then went on a downer with the issue of the new DNs.

 

But if in your opinion the account is terminated by them issuing court proceedings that's fine by me.

 

I expect a formal demand letter soon once the DN date has run out.

 

Thanks again.

 

HH

[diddydicky]

DD

 

If a default notice is issued and then the creditor takes you to court but decides to withdraw and then issues another default notice where I would stand. Something tells me they are preparing to issue court proceedings but the way I look at it is and forgive me if I am totally wrong and would like your expert assistance but if I default and they take me to court that means the contract has been terminated and thereby issuing another default notice is pointless as there is no contract to default or have I got that totally wrong.

 

Other side asked me to sign a consent order but the day after I received a new default notice and the balance has risen by nearly £5000.

 

HH

 

the bringing of a court action against you for sums not yet due is clear evidence that the creditor regards the agreement as terminated

 

did you enter a defence (even a holding defence)? if you did- then the creditor cannot start a new action on the same grounds without the (unlikely) permission of the court

 

a dn served against a terminated agreement will be about as much good as a chocolate fireguard

[hammyhound]

Thanks DD

 

you and pumpytums have both confirmed what I thought.

 

When the new proceedings arrive I will probably post a new thread to ask advice.

 

How could a court allow permission for the new proceedings though based on new default notices.

 

HH

[hammyhound]

did you enter a defence (even a holding defence)? if you did- then the creditor cannot start a new action on the same grounds without the (unlikely) permission of the court

 

a dn served against a terminated agreement will be about as much good as a chocolate fireguard

 

The CMC was due in the next week or so. So we were really preparing for trial.

 

HH

[fuzzybobble]

If it's Argos, then the CCA is also likely to be unenforceable anyway. That's if they can actually produce one.

[Undercover-Elsa]

If it is faulty you can just queue up at the Argos returns desk and they'll give you another one, no questions asked

[foolishgirl]

If it is faulty you can just queue up at the Argos returns desk and they'll give you another one, no questions asked

 

Hmm... but you have to wait for ever & a day.

Suggest you book your place in line now for the Christmas rush

[Craigbadger]

Hi, could someone have a look at this see what they think. I did chuck them in another thread but they got lost. I have my own opinions on this but want some more knowledgeable opinions.

Was delivered 13/4/10 1st class.

Something that I dont know if relevant is that there is no clause 8 in my agreement(my own original copy) as referred to in paragraph 1 of this dn.

Comes across as typical C1 template confusion but I dont know much about these.

Ive read conflicting things on the date thing, ive seen some say it must state a date to remedy, where others are saying that 28 days is acceptable.

Also there are a few hundred pounds in charges on the account + interest, id say worth more than the default with interest(they seem to of forgotten to put the right to add these in the cca also).

Also did I read that underlined words must be made bolder?

I'd really appreciate some advice on this please, nearing the 28 days.

 

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af299/badgercraig/Caponedn/caponedfn1.jpg?t=1272938734

 

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af299/badgercraig/Caponedn/CaponeDfN2.jpg?t=1272938791

[cosalt]

Hi, could someone have a look at this see what they think. I did chuck them in another thread but they got lost. I have my own opinions on this but want some more knowledgeable opinions.

Was delivered 13/4/10 1st class.

Something that I dont know if relevant is that there is no clause 8 in my agreement(my own original copy) as referred to in paragraph 1 of this dn.

Comes across as typical C1 template confusion but I dont know much about these.

Ive read conflicting things on the date thing, ive seen some say it must state a date to remedy, where others are saying that 28 days is acceptable.

Also there are a few hundred pounds in charges on the account + interest, id say worth more than the default with interest(they seem to of forgotten to put the right to add these in the cca also).

Also did I read that underlined words must be made bolder?

I'd really appreciate some advice on this please, nearing the 28 days.

 

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af299/badgercraig/Caponedn/caponedfn1.jpg?t=1272938734

 

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af299/badgercraig/Caponedn/CaponeDfN2.jpg?t=1272938791

 

 

Hi craigbadger,

 

Strictly speaking the dn should state an actual date you need to remedy by, saying something like 'you must make a payment by 28th april' rather than 'within 28 days' however I would doubt this is enough to make the dn invalid as 28 days would always allow you sufficient time.

 

Remember its not when you received it that matters, its when it was served on you. for example first class post is deemed received two working days after it was posted, irrelevant of when you actually recieved it.

 

Have you actually calculated how much of the arrears amount they quote is charges ? This may be a better approach as strictly speaking the arrears amount should only be contractual payments so if charges have been added it can't be right. However again it would need to be a good percentage of the stated arrears or it could be classed as de minus.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cosalt

[Craigbadger]

Hi thanks for replying. Will need to request statements or a start as ive not had a paper 1 in a year and they blocked my online banking 12 months ago.

I can be pretty positively say the charges will be not far off as much as the arrears on the notice of about £836 and I dont think they have took those into consideration. There were atleast 6 pre 2006 £20 charges and there have been 24 x £12 in the last year alone and ive been late or over limit most months in between .

What % would be considered an issue?. + they have no contractual agreement to charge me anything so cant even say the £12 are fair.

Agreements carp anyway was more than anything curious to see if the dn was any good

 

Hi craigbadger,

 

Strictly speaking the dn should state an actual date you need to remedy by, saying something like 'you must make a payment by 28th april' rather than 'within 28 days' however I would doubt this is enough to make the dn invalid as 28 days would always allow you sufficient time.

 

Remember its not when you received it that matters, its when it was served on you. for example first class post is deemed received two working days after it was posted, irrelevant of when you actually recieved it.

 

Have you actually calculated how much of the arrears amount they quote is charges ? This may be a better approach as strictly speaking the arrears amount should only be contractual payments so if charges have been added it can't be right. However again it would need to be a good percentage of the stated arrears or it could be classed as de minus.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cosalt

[middenmess]

The D/N does not appear to be in the correct format especially in regard to the prescribed emphasis and the fact that unlawful charges are included in it-however to avoid an unnecessary battle why not just claim back all of the charges plus interest at the current cash rate that they charge you,plus 8%.

 

Use this calculator with '12 rests'

 

Compound interest calculator!!!

 

This, as your surmise, will probably negate the debt.

[Craigbadger]

The D/N does not appear to be in the correct format especially in regard to the prescribed emphasis and the fact that unlawful charges are included in it-however to avoid an unnecessary battle why not just claim back all of the charges plus interest at the current cash rate that they charge you,plus 8%.

 

Use this calculator with '12 rests'

 

Compound interest calculator!!!

 

This, as your surmise, will probably negate the debt.

 

Hi thanks, the charges would cover the arrears but not the whole debt which is 5 figures.

Ive read conflicting views on whether to reclaim charges while disputing a cca as unenforceable as you are admitting the debt. Is it an option to reclaim the charges while disputing the agreement?

[lookinforinfo]

Craigbadger, this is where it would be great if you have kept the envelope as the dates could be tight. They allowed from the 9th April, a time within 28 days [therefore 27 days ie 6th May ] which included receiving your payment. They reckon it takes 5 working days to get paid [excluding Bank Holidays] and May 2nd was a BH so 5 working days back from the 6th May is the 27th April.

 

The 9th March was a Friday, so were it posted on the Monday 2nd class

14 days from receipt would be 29th April. So could be 2 days short. So if they do take you to Court you will require strict proof of posting and strict proof of whether it went 1st or 2nd class.

 

On top of that the DN is wrong on a couple of counts. The regs state that the payment time should be calculated from the date of receipt of the DN , not the date of the DN itself. On top of that, the DN should include the actual date by which payment is required, not something as vague as

28 days from the date of the DN. 28 days is just too vague a number.

[Craigbadger]

Hi, thanks for replying.

I do have it still in the envelope.

Was received 1st class so i'd imagine it was sent on the 13th considering Nottingham is 30 miles away and 1st class would only ever take a day for that distance.

 

Craigbadger, this is where it would be great if you have kept the envelope as the dates could be tight. They allowed from the 9th April, a time within 28 days [therefore 27 days ie 6th May ] which included receiving your payment. They reckon it takes 5 working days to get paid [excluding Bank Holidays] and May 2nd was a BH so 5 working days back from the 6th May is the 27th April.

 

The 9th March was a Friday, so were it posted on the Monday 2nd class

14 days from receipt would be 29th April. So could be 2 days short. So if they do take you to Court you will require strict proof of posting and strict proof of whether it went 1st or 2nd class.

 

On top of that the DN is wrong on a couple of counts. The regs state that the payment time should be calculated from the date of receipt of the DN , not the date of the DN itself. On top of that, the DN should include the actual date by which payment is required, not something as vague as

28 days from the date of the DN. 28 days is just too vague a number.