Help no response for copy of credit agrement

[pford]

Failure to supply the original document renders the agreement unenforceable not the debt. You have requested the agreement to be unenforceable and it seems it now is. If the agreement is unenforceable this renders the whole debt immediately payable and you therefore need to try to negotiate to arrange a payment settlement. There are some templates in the library to do this.

 

Thanks zoot that’s what i thought going to start paying them the £20 a month on my terms when i can pay it i.e. 1st of month. Not like the gits at the Halifax you pay us on the 15th of every month or else. They going to accept that for 6 months then look again at it.

Will leave the Halifax to Trading Standards to deal with.

[gargoil]

Surely if the agreement is unenforceable the debt is unenforceable?

[zootscoot]

That would be like saying that because the term relating to bank charges is unenforceable we can not claim the money we have paid.

 

The contract is no longer enforceable ie the terms of that contract relating to dates of payments interest rates and charges etc. Although you have still received money from them which can be proved through your statements. The bank is entitled to recover that money in the law of restitution as oppose to contract law.

[gargoil]

My point is though if they now have to go to court to inforce the debt the fact that they have failed to provide the agreement and been in default for a month and therefore commiting a criminal offence can give leverage our way to have the debt "written off" as they will not be to kean on going to court under these circumstances.

[zootscoot]

Depending on the size of the debt. Much is made of this criminal offence,although losing a piece of paper is hardly the crime of the century. Maximum penalty a is 200.00 fine, so being the maximum even that would only be imposed in extreme circumstances.

[gargoil]

But they would also have their legal costs etc which we would be substantial as it would involve (in most cases) the DCA and original creditor being involved.We wouldn't be liable for their costs if we pursued them through the small claims court for damages and default removal.

 

Unless the amount owed is a lot (remember DCAs don't pay a great deal at all for our debts) I don't think they'll want to go to court. I think a judge would take a dim view of their behaviour and is unlikely to enforce it without the documentation.

[zootscoot]

They may well settle the default issues out of court.

[gargoil]

Heres hoping!!

[ecobabe]

I'm confused about this then, because I have a debt of £400 remaining on a much larger one, which i have been paying off. However they owe me considerably more than this in charges. They defaulted on CCA 3 months ago and now have written to say that they cannot locate the agreementand accept that it cannot be pursued through the courts now. This is a large well known company, who have pursued other folks aggressively on some of threads. Oh, and as yet they are unaware that i intended to reclaim charges so it's not a case of offsetting.

[jimfishybob]

Depending on the size of the debt. Much is made of this criminal offence,although losing a piece of paper is hardly the crime of the century. Maximum penalty a is 200.00 fine, so being the maximum even that would only be imposed in extreme circumstances.

 

It's actually £2,500, (level 4 on the sliding scale), based on summary conviction.

[gargoil]

I'm confused about this then, because I have a debt of £400 remaining on a much larger one, which i have been paying off. However they owe me considerably more than this in charges. They defaulted on CCA 3 months ago and now have written to say that they cannot locate the agreementand accept that it cannot be pursued through the courts now. This is a large well known company, who have pursued other folks aggressively on some of threads. Oh, and as yet they are unaware that i intended to reclaim charges so it's not a case of offsetting.

 

Theres no great benefit of you chasing for cca non comp as I am. The greater benefit to you is to chase for bank charges and default removal (if there is one)!

[ecobabe]

yes, that's my opinion too. but there must be truth to the unenforceability of the agreement because they were pursuing me aggressively up until i asked for agreement. now they say that they know they can't enforce it thru court. there is no default registered either which reinforces my opinion that they can't pursue consumer if they don't have agreement........they can't register a default if there is no agreement. JMO

[pford]

right just checked credit file gits have loged default.

can they still do this if they not produced the documents that i have asked for?

 

thinking about sending this to experian

 

This account is in dispute with the Halifax and in fact they have committed a criminal offence under the consumer credit act 1974 by not replying to my request for information under sections 77 & 78 of the ‘THE ACT’. This request was made on the 11 July 2006 and to date they have failed to provide it. As you know if they do not provide this information the agreement is not enforceable without a court order. This is now in the Hands of Trading Standards. As you are aware there are no signed copies of any agreement between me and the Halifax so this disclosure of information to you is in direct breach of the Data Protection Act.

[Spidee9]

They are naughty for that how do you stand now on the grounds that they have fallen foul of the Data Protection Act 1998 of not giving out/discussing details with a Third Party ( No offence to your spouse)

[phunkeymonkeh]

I would have thought that if they have no agreement they have no permission to submit to the CRA's

[e28bigalbexley]

I think, its CCA sec174 they have fallen foul of if they cant supply you with an executed copy of the agreement. sec174 says they cant pass on your info to other agencies.

ALan.

[pford]

Think you are right. Will drop that bit in when they get back to me on this.

[pford]

To add to this got the credit card took of me some time in 1999 as I had lost my job and was on long term sick. They accepted a reduced payment of £20 a month up to November of 2005 this arrangement was fine. But the Halifax started hammering me with bank charges in August of 2005 so had to miss a few. Then all of a sudden we want £60 a month of you. Made the missing payments of £20 a month up in December of 2005 until July of the year when they failed to respond to the s78 request.

Question is if card been taken of me in 1999 and they where willing to accept the £20 payments they still allowed to issue a default notice in August 2006 even after they are in default of the CCA..

[pford]

Had a reply of experian

In view of your comments about the account held with Halifax and the search recorded by HFC Bank, I am writing to them for you. This is because I cannot amend your report without their consent. I will let you know what they say as soon as they reply.

 

While I investigate your comments, I am adding the following statement to the entries you have queried.

 

"THE ACCURACY OF THIS DATA HAS BEEN DISPUTED BY THE INDIVIDUAL CONCERNED AND WE HAVE NOW CONTACTED THE SUBSCRIBER. CARE SHOULD THEREFORE BE TAKEN WHEN USING THIS ITEM OF DATA TO ASSESS THE CREDITWORTHINESS OF THE INDIVIDUAL CONCERNED."

[lickthewallfatboy]

"CARE SHOULD THEREFORE BE TAKEN WHEN USING THIS ITEM OF DATA TO ASSESS THE CREDITWORTHINESS OF THE INDIVIDUAL CONCERNED."

 

 

So that makes it all ok then?How exactly is anyone supposed to quantify "care"-I'm sure anyone poking through your file will be very careful!!

[dayglo]

I know! it's fractionally better than having no correction there at all.

 

The only upside (and this is questionable) is that the corrective marker forces manually processing and eliminates automatic processing. I think that means a person has to actually look at the file and make a judgement. Of course, there is nothing to stop the person ignoring the marker and proceeding with 'computer says "no"!!!'

keep up the battle.

[pford]

Right just been on phone to trading standards. As of Monday it going to go to the next level heard shift off the Halifax since they sent the letter to them on the 3rd of this month but they did give them till the 20th to reply.

Now this is the best bit they need me to sign some paper work so the Halifax will talk to them LOL, they are hiding behind the Data Protection Act as well LOL.

Also was told to report them to the FSA as well.

 

One thing they did say is that all of us nice people:-D claiming off them as got them in a right mess one leg don’t know what the other one is doing.

[darling]

this is a very interesting thread, good luck with your quest.

[Spidee9]

Be a different matter if they can they reckon they sent me a default notice in June of this year. So if they did account is closed now. Was quite happy paying it of at what I could afford but got fed up with them and their bull**** phone calls. Bloody gits even discussed the account with wife. Your husband owes us this amount on his account can you pay it now?

 

 

Can you take action against them for breaking the Data Protection Act as they should not give details to a third party. How could they be certain it was your wife they were speaking with? Lucky it was your wife and not a nosy neighbour eh.

[jamesbond]

hi all..i am trying to find the piece in section 174 of the cca about non disclosure to cras?..cant seem to locate it? can any one point me in the direction?

i am at war with the NatWest about this at the mo, no agreement produced four months after cca and a default notice sitting on my file..they say that due to the passage of time we are unable to locate the agreement but still want the cash!! £20000 loan £9500 left including £6500 worth of disputed ppi.