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Restons/MBNA Issued Court Claim **ROUND ONE TO SF**


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i suppose i could print that nice recent case with rest of my court bundle :D case very similar to mine!

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Did you receive the Transcript I sent you earlier ?:)

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Did you receive the Transcript I sent you earlier ?:)

Hi CitB

i did thanks and that judgement will be a great one to add to my court bundle:Di What a great case to come to light just before Restons/MBNA court case .I cant thank you enough for bringing trancript of judgement to my attention i had heard some snippets before but not managened to find a detailed transcript of judgment bere!i suppose i could copy and past the judgement you sent me on this thread to give everyone some good news that there is a new recent case that can be quoted now in court cases!:D i was going to e mail you soon :) sunflowerxx

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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IN THE LEEDS COUNTY COURT Case No: 9LS70096

The Combined Court Centre

Oxford Row

Leeds

1st June 2009

Before

HIS HONOUR JUDGE LANGAN QC

__________

BANK OF SCOTLAND

(Claimant)

-v-

ROBERT MITCHELL

(Defendant)

__________

APPROVED JUDGMENT

__________

APPEARANCES:

For the Claimant: MISS GARDNER

For the Defendant: MR BERKLEY QC

__________

Transcribed from tape by

J L Harpham Limited

Official Court Reporters and Tape Transcribers

55 Queen Street

Sheffield S1 2DX

BANK OF SCOTLAND -v- ROBERT MITCHELL

1st June 2009

APPROVED JUDGMENT

JUDGE LANGAN:

 

1. I have to deal with an issue as to costs which has arisen on the informal discontinuance of an action.

2. The action was commenced on 21st May 2008. The claimant bank had, in December 2003, issued a credit card to the defendant, and the claim was for £15,417.23, being the amount said to be due on the defendant's account. Judgment in default, for a total sum of £15,727.23, was obtained on 4th July 2008. The defendant subsequently applied to have the judgment set aside. That application came before District Judge Jordan on 29th January this year and was successful. The recitals to the District Judge's order say this:

 

"And upon the defendant's proceedings on the basis of a breach of

Section 61(1)(a) of the Consumer Credit Act, namely that the claimant

failed to comply with the requirements to give copies of all the

documents relevant to the agreement at the time of signing, and upon

the defendant contending that notwithstanding Section 65 of the

Consumer Credit Act 1974, Section 127(3) of the Act preventing the

enforcement".

After those recitals it is ordered the court sets judgment aside, and it is ordered that there be,

"A determination of the issue set out above". Various procedural directions then follow.

3. What has been listed for trial today is, "The determination of issue", referred to in the order which I have just recited.

4. The agreement made in relation to the defendant's credit card was a regulated agreement within the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Section 61(1) (a) of that Act provides:

"A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless a document in

the prescribed form, itself containing all the prescribed terms and

conforming to regulations under Section 60(1), is signed in the

prescribed manner, both by the debtor or hirer, and by or on behalf of

the creditor or owner".

Having regard to the date of the agreement made in this case, which was prior to amendments made to the Act which took effect from 5th April 2007, the result of non compliance with Section 61(1)(a) would be that the credit card agreement would be unenforceable against the defendant, see Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 127(3).

5. This morning I was informed by Miss Gardner, counsel for the bank, that the bank was withdrawing its claim against the defendant. This announcement has been accepted by Mr Berkley QC, who appears for the defendant, as equivalent to the service of a notice of discontinuance under the Civil Procedure Rules Part 38.3. By the Civil Procedure Rules Part 38.6.1:

"Unless the court orders otherwise, a claimant who discontinues is

liable for the costs which a defendant against whom the claimant

discontinues incurred, on or before the date on which notice of

discontinuance was served on the defendant".

Miss Gardner contends that the court should, "Order otherwise", and make no order for costs as between the parties. Mr Berkley contends that the presumption in CPR 38.1.6 should operate, and further that the order for costs to be made in favour of his client should be an order for assessment on the indemnity basis.

6. The thrust of Miss Gardner's submission is that the issue directed by the District Judge, and on which the evidence has been focussed, is whether the bank supplied the defendant at the time of signing the application form for credit with documents which contained all the terms of the agreement between them. I shall elaborate a little further on this. It has been the defendant's case that he was supplied with nothing more than the application form which he signed. It has been the bank's case that in accordance with the usual practice of the bank the defendant would have been, and must have been, supplied with other documents, including a pack which will have contained all the terms and conditions of the agreement made betweenthe parties. Miss Gardner goes on to say that the defendant has at the last moment taken a new and radically different point, namely that the document signed by the defendant did not contain all the prescribed terms of the agreement. I must again elaborate on this. It is common ground that the only document signed by the defendant was the application form. It is also common ground that the application form did not, on its face, set out the prescribed terms of the agreement between the parties. The point which is treated by Miss Gardner as a new point is dealt with in paragraphs 22 and 23 of Mr Berkley's written argument, and it will, I think, be more economical if I simply quote those two paragraphs in full rather than attempt, in my own words, to expand on them:

"The key words in Section 61(1) (a) are the reference to a document

itself containing all the prescribed terms, and conforming to the

regulations under Section 61. This language is clear and specific, and

ensures that mere reference to terms contained in another document

will not suffice. The document must contain the prescribed terms, just

as the signed document referred to in Section 127(3), which might save

the day, must however contain the prescribed terms. The construction

contended for by the defendant is entirely consistent with the language

of Section 61(1), and is also supported by Professor Good in his

encyclopaedic work - see Good & Consumer Credit Law and Practice

volume 2, 2B 5.121, and see also the comments at 2B 5.247. There the

learned author draws a distinction between the language of paragraph

(a) contain and paragraph (b) embody. It is respectfully submitted that

the court should adopt the same reasoning in determining this issue in

favour of the defendant, irrespective of whether or not it finds that the

defendant was supplied with documents other than the credit

agreement itself".

7. In my judgment, the point with which I have just been dealing is not properly to be

characterised as a new point on which the bank can present itself as being taken by surprise. I refer to four documents. First, on 3rd November 2008, when the defendant was acting as a litigant in person, in the request to have the default judgment set aside he said this:

"As the court is aware, in the absence of all the prescribed terms being

embodied, it will render a document unenforceable in court. These

terms must be contained within the agreement, and not in a separate

document headed 'Terms and Conditions', or words to that effect".

Secondly, on 18th February 2009, solicitors, who were by then acting for the defendant, sent to the solicitors acting for the bank a copy of what they called an expert report setting out the reasons why the agreement was in breach of Section 61(1) (a), and they went on:

"As you are aware it is our client's position that at the time he entered

into the agreement he was not provided with a copy of the terms and

conditions governing the agreement".

If one goes to the so called expert's report, one finds that it is in effect an opinion prepared by another firm of solicitors, and the opinion contains the following:

 

"Based on the information provided, it appears that the prescribed

terms and conditions were not included in the document signed by the

borrower. The agreement would appear to be in breach of the

regulations in that it does not contain within the signed agreement itself

all of the prescribed terms".

Thirdly, that point having been taken on behalf of the defendant, it was robustly rejected by the solicitors acting for the bank in their reply of 19th March 2009:

"Our client has sought counsel's opinion on this matter and her view is

that the agreement is compliant. We note that your client is arguing

that at the time of signing the agreement, the application for a credit

card, he was not provided with the actual terms and conditions which

were contained in a separate document to the application. Whilst our

client accepts that the application itself does not comply with the

requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and only becomes

compliant by reference to terms and conditions, there are references in

the agreement to the conditions in which it states that they are provided

in the Halifax credit card application pack".

Fourthly, going back in time a little, on 4th March 2009, in the defendant's witness statement made for the purpose of the trial of the issue, at the very beginning of the statement, in paragraph 3, he said this:

"It is my position that the agreement is not enforceable by the claimant

as it has failed to comply with its obligations under Section 61 of the

Consumer Credit Act 1974 by failing to include within the document

that I signed all the prescribed terms".

8. The absence of further reference to the point in the evidence is hardly surprising, since the point is one of law, on which there was no controversy as to the facts.

9. Miss Gardner has given no reason for the withdrawal of the action. She is in no way to be criticised for the omission. She is bound to act in accordance with her instructions, and those instructions were presumably to say no more than she has in fact said. But this does not prevent me from drawing what is in my judgment the only inference which can possibly be drawn from what has happened, which is that the bank realises that if the issue were to be contested it would either lose on the issue or be at serious risk of losing. There may be hundreds of similar cases and the bank would plainly not wish other defaulting customers to get wind of an adverse decision on the fundamental point which is embodied in the quotation from Mr Berkley's written argument, which I have already set out.

10. Accordingly, I conclude, without hesitation, that there is no reason for displacing the presumption as to incidence of costs which is ordinarily applicable in a case of

discontinuance. The bank will pay the defendant's costs of the claim, subject only to any existing order for costs in favour of the bank not being disturbed.

11. Finally, I have to consider whether the costs of the defendant should be assessed on the standard or on the indemnity basis. In my judgment the assessment should be on the indemnity basis. The only realistic view of what has happened is that the bank has surrendered on a straightforward point of law, to which it has on several occasions been alerted by the defendant or his solicitors. A large commercial enterprise which proceeds with litigation in the face of warning signs of the kind which were erected here, adopts a high risk strategy. The point in question was a simple one. There was no relevant controversy as to the evidence. To choose to abandon the claim on the very day of the hearing is doing a serious disservice to the efficient administration of justice, and comes very close to constituting an abuse of process. At the very least, the bank's conduct of the litigation falls comfortably within the range of cases in which, on the modern authorities, an assessment of costs on the indemnity basis is appropriate.

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Section I Other Information

If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

Without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case.

 

The House of Lords in the case of Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) made it clear in paragraph 29 of LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD judgment

 

29. The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order. The second type of case concerns failure to comply with the duty to supply a copy of an executed or unexecuted agreement pursuant to sections 62 and 63, or failure to comply with the duty to give

notice of cancellation rights in accordance with section 64(1). Here again, subject to one exception regarding sections 62 and63, section 127(4) precludes the court from making an enforcement order.

 

should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer

 

Therefore it stands to reason that these documents must be disclosed before this case can progress any further

 

Draft Order For Directions

 

1 The Claimant shall not later than 4:00pm on (date) (being a date 2 weeks from the date of the making of the case management directions) file and serve a verified true copy of each of the following documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim

 

(a) the executed regulated consumer credit agreement made between the defendant and xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx under reference xxxxxxxxxxxxx together with any terms and conditions that applied to it, .the original must be brought to hearing under cpr directions 16 paragraph 7.3

(b) the default notice together with proof of service the original document must be brought to the hearing

(d) a full and complete statement of account including all payments made and charges applied covering the period beginning with the day of the making of the agreement and ending on the date of the commencement of this case.

(e) any other documents on which the claimant will rely

 

2 In the event that the Claimant shall fail to comply with paragraph 1 of this order the claim shall stand struck out and the Defendant shall be at liberty without further order to apply to this court for judgment and for costs on the standard basis to be subject to detailed assessment proceedings if not agreed.

 

3 In the event of compliance with paragraph 1 of this order this case shall be allocated to the fast track and

 

4 The Defendant shall file and serve an Amended Defence by 4:00pm on (date) (being a date 6 weeks from the date of the making of the case management directions).

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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I suppose this is the lay out i should put on my AQ form? like it is in post above?

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Thought this might interest you, Sunflower - found it on another thread; seems MBNA admit they should not have added charges whilst in default of a s78 request and that the application form did not count as an agreement...

 

 

OK, i have interesting development here.

MBNA, I made a request section 78(1) and got application form. Send letter requesting an Agreement. Didn't get it. Adviced them of default then 28 days of offense. However, I continued paying their demands( they ignored my requests to stop). At the end i took them to court (N1 form) and requested the REFUND of all charges during their offense/default. They filed admission but they never filed DEFENSE. So I got Judgement in Default. they didn't pay so I sent to them Warrant of Execution.

However, judge refused to issue an order for them to stop acting on account despite the fact - that was written on particulars of claim - he only awarded the money I claimed. Did I make mistake here? Any suggestions. Also, as they didn't dispute my particulars of claims - that surely means they agree to them. How do I file Injunction and stop them acting on account - I do not want default but i do not want to continue paying to. Any idea anybody. I let you know about the result of Warrant. I would love those baillifs to pick up MBNA director's chair and sell it to find my Warrant

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Thought this might interest you, Sunflower - found it on another thread; seems MBNA admit they should not have added charges whilst in default of a s78 request and that the application form did not count as an agreement...

 

 

OK, i have interesting development here.

MBNA, I made a request section 78(1) and got application form. Send letter requesting an Agreement. Didn't get it. Adviced them of default then 28 days of offense. However, I continued paying their demands( they ignored my requests to stop). At the end i took them to court (N1 form) and requested the REFUND of all charges during their offense/default. They filed admission but they never filed DEFENSE. So I got Judgement in Default. they didn't pay so I sent to them Warrant of Execution.

However, judge refused to issue an order for them to stop acting on account despite the fact - that was written on particulars of claim - he only awarded the money I claimed. Did I make mistake here? Any suggestions. Also, as they didn't dispute my particulars of claims - that surely means they agree to them. How do I file Injunction and stop them acting on account - I do not want default but i do not want to continue paying to. Any idea anybody. I let you know about the result of Warrant. I would love those baillifs to pick up MBNA director's chair and sell it to find my Warrant

yes interesting post Underdog!:)

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Section I Other Information

If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

Without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case.

 

The House of Lords in the case of Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) made it clear in paragraph 29 of LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD judgment

 

29. The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order. The second type of case concerns failure to comply with the duty to supply a copy of an executed or unexecuted agreement pursuant to sections 62 and 63, or failure to comply with the duty to give

notice of cancellation rights in accordance with section 64(1). Here again, subject to one exception regarding sections 62 and63, section 127(4) precludes the court from making an enforcement order.

 

should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer

 

Therefore it stands to reason that these documents must be disclosed before this case can progress any further

 

Draft Order For Directions

 

1 The Claimant shall not later than 4:00pm on (date) (being a date 2 weeks from the date of the making of the case management directions) file and serve a verified true copy of each of the following documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim

 

(a) the executed regulated consumer credit agreement made between the defendant and xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx under reference xxxxxxxxxxxxx together with any terms and conditions that applied to it, .the original must be brought to hearing under cpr directions 16 paragraph 7.3

(b) the default notice together with proof of service the original document must be brought to the hearing

(d) a full and complete statement of account including all payments made and charges applied covering the period beginning with the day of the making of the agreement and ending on the date of the commencement of this case.

(e) any other documents on which the claimant will rely

 

2 In the event that the Claimant shall fail to comply with paragraph 1 of this order the claim shall stand struck out and the Defendant shall be at liberty without further order to apply to this court for judgment and for costs on the standard basis to be subject to detailed assessment proceedings if not agreed.

 

3 In the event of compliance with paragraph 1 of this order this case shall be allocated to the fast track and

 

4 The Defendant shall file and serve an Amended Defence by 4:00pm on (date) (being a date 6 weeks from the date of the making of the case management directions).

Hi folks

Just wanted to double check and ask you if this is ok to send attached to my AQ form as a reponse to section I ,In the end when i printed out the above it ran into two pages! I headed each paper with my claim number and all the other court ref numbers and ref of court it been transferred to plus of course listing Defendands and clamaint names .On the second page i also put a heading -Section I Other Information Countinued Draft Order For Directions as the second page had the specfic Draft Order Directions On it, Also should i sign and date each page i am attaching to AQ form? some people not sure but said maybe i should but i thought as i dont have to sign and date all the pages on original AQ form apart from vey last page i would have though just heading up each seperate paper with my all my court claim references would be good enough but just wanted to check,Also i been told it a good idea to head each attached paper Defendant copy?So main question is do i sign and date the attcached extra paper i am clipping onto AQ form papers?:) and is everything ok as i am hopeing to get this all sent off today once i am happy with all paperwork

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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posting #204 are those your personal details? You might like to edit that posting Sunflower99. Should you need anymore info from my postings on my thread feel free to ask for copies anytime, happy to assist.:)

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HI Mydogasweetie

Dont worry about post with details! not my details! wish they were! LOL It was details from successful court case taken from news which CITb kindlly sent me where someone managed to give a the bank of Scotland a thrashing in court! over not having a properly executed CCA and trying to get away with saying or impling prescribed terms in a seperate document:D Thouight it nice to post up on my thread to show everyone thses banks can be beaten!:D

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi SF,

 

It looks ok to me, however, you might want to try and track down andyorch or IGNM or perhaps CCM, to confirm for you.. to be on the safe side.:)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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In my case Restons have rsponded to my 31.14 request but still not sent me what fully complies with thiis type of request ,They sent me exacatly the same as MBNA did both to a s78 and a sar request ,so i feel i can argue in court that they have not complied with this request as it refers to conditions not present in any of the documents supplied to me.and no proof that the front of application form and what is implied to be on back of it by photographing them on back and front of same paper are part of same document! Nothing on front of application form refers to the prescribed terms needed to be in four corners of same document so no proof back is linked to front and MBNA ignored my letter asking for them to confirm these two pages were from same document or that other second page was actually reverse of application form!They also ignored my request in letters to confirm they had an original signed agreement and ignored my request to comne down to their offices to view it!

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi folks

Just wanted to double check and ask you if this is ok to send attached to my AQ form as a reponse to section I ,In the end when i printed out the above it ran into two pages! I headed each paper with my claim number and all the other court ref numbers and ref of court it been transferred to plus of course listing Defendands and clamaint names .On the second page i also put a heading -Section I Other Information Countinued Draft Order For Directions as the second page had the specfic Draft Order Directions On it, Also should i sign and date each page i am attaching to AQ form? some people not sure but said maybe i should but i thought as i dont have to sign and date all the pages on original AQ form apart from vey last page i would have though just heading up each seperate paper with my all my court claim references would be good enough but just wanted to check,Also i been told it a good idea to head each attached paper Defendant copy?So main question is do i sign and date the attcached extra paper i am clipping onto AQ form papers?:) and is everything ok as i am hopeing to get this all sent off today once i am happy with all paperwork

 

Just attach them to the AQ and refer to them in "other" as appendix

I would lose the bold Sunflower in the Directions dont want apper to be telling DJ how to suck eggs,wouldnt want you to get you off on a bad start.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi SF,

 

It looks ok to me, however, you might want to try and track down andyorch or IGNM or perhaps CCM, to confirm for you.. to be on the safe side.:)

Hi CitB

Will do! Snoops did say he would be able to pop on my thread and look at it later today to answer that query.I did pm IGNM at same time as you and Snoops but not heard back but yes Andytorch or creditcardmug would be good ones to ask as well! will pm them now,I think as i still got till Fiday to get AQ sorted i will relax rest of today as i can pop into post office in one of my work breaks in morning and send it special delivery it should get to court on Tuesday and definitly by wednesaday so wll be in time for friday deadline so should be ok to send it monday! :) Thank CitB :) x

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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SF, andy has replied already in post 216.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Just attach them to the AQ and refer to them in "other" as appendix

I would lose the bold Sunflower in the Directions dont want apper to be telling DJ how to suck eggs,wouldnt want you to get you off on a bad start.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Hi Andy!

Thanks for tip ! will get rid of bold type for -The original must be brought to hearing under cpr directions 16 paragraph 7.3 LOL yes i must admit i did wonder if i should have printed that in bold print! Dont want the DJ thinking im telling him is job! :eek: Back to my printer! :) Thanks again ! sunflower!:)

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Claim Number

Claiment- MBNA Europe Bank LTD Stansfield House

Ref

Defendant-

Court

Section I Other Information

If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

Without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case.

The House of Lords in the case of Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) made it clear in paragraph 29 of LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD judgment

29. The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order. The second type of case concerns failure to comply with the duty to supply a copy of an executed or unexecuted agreement pursuant to sections 62 and 63, or failure to comply with the duty to give notice of cancellation rights in accordance with section 64(1). Here again, subject to one exception regarding sections 62 and63, section 127(4) precludes the court from making an enforcement order.

should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer

Therefore it stands to reason that these documents must be disclosed before this case can progress any further

 

 

Edited by citizenB
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  • Haha 1

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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The above is first page! to be attached ! so included all the correct headings for references i hope?

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Claim Number

Claiment- MBNA Europe Bank LTD Stansfield House

Ref

Defendant-

Court

Section I countinued

Appendix

Draft Order For Directions

1 The Claimant shall not later than 4:00pm on (date) (being a date 2 weeks from the date of the making of the case management directions) file and serve a verified true copy of each of the following documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim

 

(a) the executed regulated consumer credit agreement made between the defendant and xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx under reference xxxxxxxxxxxxx together with any terms and conditions that applied to it, .the original must be brought to hearing under cpr directions 16 paragraph 7.3

(b) the default notice together with proof of service the original document must be brought to the hearing

(d) a full and complete statement of account including all payments made and charges applied covering the period beginning with the day of the making of the agreement and ending on the date of the commencement of this case.

(e) any other documents on which the claimant will rely

 

2 In the event that the Claimant shall fail to comply with paragraph 1 of this order the claim shall stand struck out and the Defendant shall be at liberty without further order to apply to this court for judgment and for costs on the standard basis to be subject to detailed assessment proceedings if not agreed.

 

3 In the event of compliance with paragraph 1 of this order this case shall be allocated to the fast track and

 

4 The Defendant shall file and serve an Amended Defence by 4:00pm on (date) (being a date 6 weeks from the date of the making of the case management directions).

Edited by sunflower99

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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is that ok folks! I dropped out the bold type on cpr 16 para 7.3 request! and put it in nomal print so DJ dosent think im trying to tell him his job! :) That is second page!

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Looks ok.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Looks ok.
Hi CitB

Thanks for confirmnation and help ! will get it all printed out ready for posting monday !:)

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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