Restons/MBNA Issued Court Claim **ROUND ONE TO SF**

[Cartier-Bresson]

Good Luck Sunflower - will let you know how I got on tomorrow !

 

CB

[sunflower99]

Good Luck Sunflower - will let you know how I got on tomorrow !

 

CB

Good luck to you too.I hope you give em grief tommorrow! and get all your costs off them!

[sunflower99]

Hi SF,

 

I guess we knew this would happen, just not when:( Have you phoned the court to see if there is a witness statement lurking around. You will see from CB's thread that they ambushed him with one yesterday.. a day before trial.

 

MDS, Fairbyblue and CB's threads should have most of the information you require to fight this successfully.

 

Just shout if you need help/information.

 

You will need to file the response 7 days before the SJ hearing date which will be 14/15 september.

Hi citB

will do! That will my project this weekend! and checking that paperewok matches up and doing a list of all my concerns with CCA.

[sunflower99]

Hi sunflower99 just caught up with your postings...

 

Surprise surprise Your SJ hearing application is along the same lines as mine "almost" word for word other than the paragraph which states above about it being an online application.

 

Your more than welcome to my WS in response also IGNM was of great assistance in suggesting me doing an amended defence at the last minute too.

 

Let me know if you need anything else....(still waiting on the District judge order who didnt give Restons what they came for when I attended court on the 13th July, no news is good news I guess for now (fingers crossed x)

Hi Mydogasweetie!

Thanks for your link to your witness statement and offer of help.I am so touched how everyone coming to my aid when chips are down!Just hope i can like you give em grief and you eventually see them off for good! xx

[Avondale]

Hi,

 

Re your April 2009 letter, have you received any further communique.

 

Av

[lilly white]

sunflower are you well let battle commence

 

just read their statment i see that they have attached recent terms and they seem to be short on their statments when was the account open 2002.

 

best regrards keeping a look out

[sunflower99]

sunflower are you well let battle commence

 

just read their statment i see that they have attached recent terms and they seem to be short on their statments when was the account open 2002.

 

best regrards keeping a look out

Hi Lilley

Yes ive noticed it on a few other Reston/MBNA threads that they seem to only supply them from 2004 onwards. As you say whats happenend to the original ones from 2002 and 2003 ones ?As account was opened in 2002?:?

[citizenB]

Are you missing statements, SF. I thought you had them all. If not, it is something you could use in your argument against the SJ.. The need to know how they have made up the amount they are asking for.

 

Have you worked out roughly how much they have added in charges/late payment fees ?

[lilly white]

sunflower.

 

is your cca on this tread still ,if it is ,can you please point me in the right

 

direction.

 

regards lilly

[citizenB]

sunflower.

 

is your cca on this tread still ,if it is ,can you please point me in the right

 

direction.

 

regards lilly

 

 

You will find it in post 3 here

[lilly white]

well i have a look at the, CCA IF THATS IS WHAT THEY GOT THEY ARE IN TROUBLE.

 

May i suggest you get your hands on a updated application ie 2009 application see what the differnce is.

 

So the fact would be, this is what they sent me then this what they do now.

 

Why is that.

 

As i am sure you are aware the CCA that you where sent does not have the requirment that is requir by law they did not make it clear in any way what you where signing up to

 

Why because they did not want to

 

This what they should have shown you

 

Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983

(2) Where any information about financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 9 to 11 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations cannot be exactly ascertained by the creditor, estimated information based on the assumptions referred to in paragraph 10 of that Schedule, where applicable, and otherwise such assumptions as the creditor may reasonably make in all the circumstances of the case and a statement of the assumptions made shall be included in documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements.

 

(3) Subject to paragraph (9) below, documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements, other than agreements of the description specified in the Schedule to the Consumer Credit (Notices of Cancellation Rights) (Exemptions) Regulations 1983 in relation to which there are no charges forming part of the total charge for credit (in this regulation referred to as "exempted agreements"), shall contain statements of the protection and remedies available to debtors under the Act, in the Form numbered in Column 1 of Part 1 of Schedule 2 to these Regulations and set out in

Column 3, in so far as they relate to the type of agreement referred to in Column 2.

 

(4) Subject to paragraphs (5) and (9) below, the information, statements of the protection and remedies, signature and separate boxes which this regulation requires documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements to contain, shall be set out in the order given by paragraphs (a) to (f) below under, where applicable, the headings specified below—

 

(a) the nature of the agreement as set out in paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;

(b) the parties to the agreement as set out in paragraph 2 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;

[© under the heading "Key Financial Information", the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 6 to 8B, 11 to 14 and 15 to 17 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;]

(d) under the heading "Other Financial Information", the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 3 to 5, 9, 10, 14A and 18 to 19A of Schedule 1 to these regulations;

(e) under the heading "Key Information"--

(i) the information set out in paragraphs 20 to 24 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations; and

(ii) the statements of protection and remedies set out in Schedule 2 to these Regulations; and

(f) the signature box and, where applicable, the separate box required by paragraph (7)(b) below;

and such information, statements of protection and remedies, signature and separate boxes shall be shown together as a whole and shall not be preceded by any information apart from trade names, logos or the reference number of the agreement or interspersed with any other information or wording apart from subtotals of total amounts and cross references to the terms of the agreement

hope this helps

[sunflower99]

well i have a look at the, CCA IF THATS IS WHAT THEY GOT THEY ARE IN TROUBLE.

 

May i suggest you get your hands on a updated application ie 2009 application see what the differnce is.

 

So the fact would be, this is what they sent me then this what they do now.

 

Why is that.

 

As i am sure you are aware the CCA that you where sent does not have the requirment that is requir by law they did not make it clear in any way what you where signing up to

 

Why because they did not want to

 

This what they should have shown you

 

Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983

(2) Where any information about financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 9 to 11 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations cannot be exactly ascertained by the creditor, estimated information based on the assumptions referred to in paragraph 10 of that Schedule, where applicable, and otherwise such assumptions as the creditor may reasonably make in all the circumstances of the case and a statement of the assumptions made shall be included in documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements.

 

(3) Subject to paragraph (9) below, documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements, other than agreements of the description specified in the Schedule to the Consumer Credit (Notices of Cancellation Rights) (Exemptions) Regulations 1983 in relation to which there are no charges forming part of the total charge for credit (in this regulation referred to as "exempted agreements"), shall contain statements of the protection and remedies available to debtors under the Act, in the Form numbered in Column 1 of Part 1 of Schedule 2 to these Regulations and set out in

Column 3, in so far as they relate to the type of agreement referred to in Column 2.

 

(4) Subject to paragraphs (5) and (9) below, the information, statements of the protection and remedies, signature and separate boxes which this regulation requires documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements to contain, shall be set out in the order given by paragraphs (a) to (f) below under, where applicable, the headings specified below—

 

(a) the nature of the agreement as set out in paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;

(b) the parties to the agreement as set out in paragraph 2 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;

[© under the heading "Key Financial Information", the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 6 to 8B, 11 to 14 and 15 to 17 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;]

(d) under the heading "Other Financial Information", the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 3 to 5, 9, 10, 14A and 18 to 19A of Schedule 1 to these regulations;

(e) under the heading "Key Information"--

(i) the information set out in paragraphs 20 to 24 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations; and

(ii) the statements of protection and remedies set out in Schedule 2 to these Regulations; and

(f) the signature box and, where applicable, the separate box required by paragraph (7)(b) below;

and such information, statements of protection and remedies, signature and separate boxes shall be shown together as a whole and shall not be preceded by any information apart from trade names, logos or the reference number of the agreement or interspersed with any other information or wording apart from subtotals of total amounts and cross references to the terms of the agreement

 

hope this helps

Hi Lily

Thanks for feed back on this application form they are trying to fob of as a cca! I dont believe they even have the original and just trying to rely on microfilch copy and if they do this i will point out this- which i gleaned from other forums_ If they try and fob you of with getting away with microfilch copy and dont bring original into court my thoughts on this and from reading threads on other forums is that you could point out to DJ these things repectfully!This quote- As i saw on another forum this point was made - A copy birth certificate is unacceptable to obtain a pass port and driving licence.A copy of divorce papers is not acceptable to obtain a passpoert or driving licence ,A copy of land deeds are not acceptable as proof of ownership of land and you cant send a copy of your driving license to prove you passed your test even if you swear on oath to say you have passed it.You must produce the original,So why should this be any different for something as importand as a credit agreement? .It can be argued on this basis that a copy of an agreement is not acceptable as proof of a debt!so this argument can be brought out in court as well and which i will be doing

[sunflower99]

Another useful point i gleaned from this thread was this point that could be made using case law and which i will be using- taken from a thread -Also if you read the Wilson v First Counties Trust it says in this ruling and says specifically " a document" signed by the debtor NOT a "copy" of a document signed by the debtor... and as everyone knows a comma can make a difference to the meaning of a sentence and especially in law and this is very significant.

Quote from Wilson case- IN effect- the crediter - by failing to ensure that he obtained a document signed by the debtor which contained all the prescribed terms -must (in the light of the provisions in section 65(1) and 127(3) of the 1974 Act) be taken to have made a voluntary disposition,or gift , of the loan monies to the debtor,The crediter had chosen to part with the monies in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid.

The conclusion to be drawn from this quote is case law and consumer law meant - A "Document" signed by the debtor containing all the prescribed terms", not a copy.If you have not got the document you not got an agreement

[sunflower99]

Also will point out respetfully to Dj that banks themselves do not like to accept faxed copies of documents and want to see original proper paperwork

[underdog13]

Indeed, try paying some photocopies of £10 notes into your bank and see how far you get;)

[WelshMam2009]

Indeed, try paying some photocopies of £10 notes into your bank and see how far you get;)

 

Lol, exactly UD, a couple of housewives not a million miles away from me tried that recently and got jailed for their trouble!! Such a shame the same rules didn't apply to CCA's as it did to bank notes...

 

Best of luck SF...go get 'em Girl!!

[sunflower99]

Indeed, try paying some photocopies of £10 notes into your bank and see how far you get;)

Good point Underdog!

[sunflower99]

Lol, exactly UD, a couple of housewives not a million miles away from me tried that recently and got jailed for their trouble!! Such a shame the same rules didn't apply to CCA's as it did to bank notes...

 

Best of luck SF...go get 'em Girl!!

Hi welshmam

yes it would be lovely if they could take the same action against copied CCAs! LOL!

Thanks CitB underdog

Lilley and Welshmam for all your good wishes and moral support,Its people like you who are giving me hope again and keeping up my spirit to give these DCAS grief.

[citizenB]

Also will point out respetfully to Dj that banks themselves do not like to accept faxed copies of documents and want to see original proper paperwork

 

Many banks insist on original signatures as well

[sunflower99]

Many banks insist on original signatures as well

Another good point CitB.i will bring all thses points up in SJ hearing unless of course they do march in with the original alleged document I think i saw a flying pig!

[underdog13]

MBNA have confirmed that they shred all original documents when they are scanned 'for our security'. Hmmm, ok, I'll believe you:rolleyes:

[sunflower99]

MBNA have confirmed that they shred all original documents when they are scanned 'for our security'. Hmmm, ok, I'll believe you:rolleyes:

Hi Undedog!

That handy to know! Trying to be all noble as well and saying they do it for our security! LOL not the fact that they are trying to save on storage space or the fact that the majority of those agreements may not have been properly executed or enforceable in first place then!

[underdog13]

or the fact that the majority of those agreements may not have been properly executed or enforceable in first place then!

 

Perish the thought! It couldn't possibly be that...

[sunflower99]

Perish the thought! It couldn't possibly be that...

Hi Underdog!

I thought i saw another flying pig!

[sunflower99]

Document Retention

 

According to sections 221 and 222 of the Companies Act 1985, a public company is required to maintain records for a period of six years (section 222(5)(b).

 

As a Credit Card agreement is active until the agreement is terminated, I would suggest that all the payment records (and other documents making up the file - including the agreement/application etc) would be "live" until the account is paid, or terminated - thus, the full file should be retained for at least six years after that.

 

This interpretation fits in with Inland Revenue legislation that requires prime documents to be retained for a period of six years - AFTER THE END OF THE RELEVANT ACCOUNTING PERIOD. That would mean some files need to be retained for up to seven years. The relevant legislation is found in Schedule 18 of the Finance Act 1998 (paragraph 21) - of particular significance is sub-paragraph (6) which states:

 

"The duty to preserve records under this paragraph includes a duty to preserve all supporting documents relating to the items mentioned in sub-paragraph (5)(a) and (b)."

 

Finally, key documents/application forms etc must be kept until 5 years after that business relationship has ended. This is a requirement of The Money Laundering Regulations 1993, 2003 and 2007. “