Restons/MBNA Issued Court Claim **ROUND ONE TO SF**

[sunflower99]

well a simple question might just elicit a confirmation from them that it is already terminated

Yes i certainly ought to ask them that ! It will be interesting to see their answer! I wonder if anyone else had issues getting a termination notice from Restons and confirmation it been terminated,

[sunflower99]

[pompeyfaith]

A judgement WILL BE entered against you hehe i like that bit why are restons/optima so certain

[sunflower99]

A judgement WILL BE entered against you hehe i like that bit why are restons/optima so certain

Hi Pompeyfaith! LOL! Yes they do seem very sure of themselves! in spite of having a number of humiliating victories against them on these threads!:grin:

[sunflower99]

and 4 the record im always thinking of and helping others

Yes i see you do on a lot of threads ive come across:)

[diddydicky]

diddy that was a joke i am mearly building myself up sorry if u saw it any other way PF

 

phew!!

[supasnooper]

Hi sf99,

 

I've just gone through the thread very quickly.

 

A few questions -

 

What are the dates on the Default Notices (date sent and date to rectify) ?

 

Do you still have the envelope thge default Notice came in ?

 

Have you sent off an SAR to MBNA and requested the Comms log ?

[sunflower99]

12th June 09

 

Dear Sir/ Madam

Ref: Account No: I understand you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within our internal record sisytems with regard to the above account.

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for the account or associated accounts will be acceptable.

In addition, I would be grateful if you would provide the following for the account (s) I have with your organisation, details as follows:

1: Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organisation, including true copies of any original documents and their original associated terms and conditions you hold in support of the same. I wish to make it plain I do not require or want any blank/generic documents, but only actual copies of signed documents and their associated historic terms etc. If you no longer hold these, or for any other reason cannot supply all of these documents, I require you to inform me of this in writing, including the reasons for not supplying anything mentioned, or for supplying anything that varies from the specific format I have requested.

 

2: A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to my credit card account(s) held with your organisation.

3: If there have been any fees/charges levied on the account by either yourself or a third party. I require a detailed breakdown of those charges.

 

4: Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

 

5: Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email, telephone or any other format which you have entered into with me, or any other individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial, or which pertains to me.

 

6: Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, to inform me of the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

7: Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £10 (number) to cover your fee. This fee is to be used for this Subject Access Request and for no other purpose.

If there is any specific information you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity please let me know by return. However, I would point your attention to the Information Commissioner's Good Practice Notes in respect of the Data Protection Act as follows:

Data Protection Act Good Practice Notes:

 

"2. Do you have enough information to be sure of the requester’s identity?

Often you will have no reason to doubt a person’s identity. For example, if a person with whom you have regular contact sends a letter from their known address it may be safe to assume that they are who they say they are."

Please note the above address is the one to which you normally use to communicate my private business to and which you have hitherto found acceptable.

 

However, should you feel it necessary to demand further proof of my identity despite the Good Practice Notes as above, I would advise I do NOT hold either a driving licence or passport. I am however prepared to telephone your Data Compliance Department to establish my identity

 

It seems a lot of banks are wrongly interpreting the Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act) 1998 as a requirement to only disclose six years worth of personal data, and this is wholly wrong.

 

 

The Data Protection Act clearly states that all information held must be disclosed and it has no correlation to the Limitation act 1980 at all.

 

IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO DEAL WITH ANY PART OF THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROTECTION.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

 

Yours faithfully

XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Enclosed: postal order in the sum of £10 (number xxxxxxxx)

Edited June 15, 2009 by sunflower99
personal details amended

[diddydicky]

12th June 09

 

Dear Sir/ Madam

Ref: Account No: I understand you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within our internal record sisytems with regard to the above account.

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for the account or associated accounts will be acceptable.

In addition, I would be grateful if you would provide the following for the account (s) I have with your organisation, details as follows:

1: Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organisation, including true copies of any original documents and their original associated terms and conditions you hold in support of the same. I wish to make it plain I do not require or want any blank/generic documents, but only actual copies of signed documents and their associated historic terms etc. If you no longer hold these, or for any other reason cannot supply all of these documents, I require you to inform me of this in writing, including the reasons for not supplying anything mentioned, or for supplying anything that varies from the specific format I have requested.

 

2: A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to my credit card account(s) held with your organisation.

3: If there have been any fees/charges levied on the account by either yourself or a third party. I require a detailed breakdown of those charges.

 

4: Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

 

5: Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email, telephone or any other format which you have entered into with me, or any other individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial, or which pertains to me.

 

6: Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, to inform me of the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

7: Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £10 (number) to cover your fee. This fee is to be used for this Subject Access Request and for no other purpose.

If there is any specific information you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity please let me know by return. However, I would point your attention to the Information Commissioner's Good Practice Notes in respect of the Data Protection Act as follows:

Data Protection Act Good Practice Notes:

 

"2. Do you have enough information to be sure of the requester’s identity?

Often you will have no reason to doubt a person’s identity. For example, if a person with whom you have regular contact sends a letter from their known address it may be safe to assume that they are who they say they are."

Please note the above address is the one to which you normally use to communicate my private business to and which you have hitherto found acceptable.

 

However, should you feel it necessary to demand further proof of my identity despite the Good Practice Notes as above, I would advise I do NOT hold either a driving licence or passport. I am however prepared to telephone your Data Compliance Department to establish my identity

 

It seems a lot of banks are wrongly interpreting the Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act) 1998 as a requirement to only disclose six years worth of personal data, and this is wholly wrong.

 

 

The Data Protection Act clearly states that all information held must be disclosed and it has no correlation to the Limitation act 1980 at all.

 

IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO DEAL WITH ANY PART OF THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROTECTION.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

 

Yours faithfully

XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Enclosed: postal order in the sum of £10 (number xxxxxxxx)

 

first line should read YOUR and not OUR

 

might be a good idea to head up the letter SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST

[supasnooper]

Okay. Let's have a look at the documentation you have and what you will require.

 

The Default Notice is defective as it does not give you the required 14 days.

 

This will be the basis of your defence.

 

For this, you will need the following documentation

 

1/ Woodchester vs Swain case law

 

2/ A printout of s87/88 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

3/ The Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 SI 1983-1561

 

4/ A print out of J R Bickford-Smiths Council Tax Manual - Section 3 - Appendix 3.6 - Service of documents by post.

 

There are copies of these on the site.

 

 

If or when MBNA do respond to your SAR, you will need to find the Comms

Log sheets.

Have a good look at the data printouts as it will reveal the inner workings of the account and any manual intervention ( see fairbyblue's thread).

This may provide further bits for your defence.

 

As Restons have sent you a "copy" of the defective DN, they cannot argue against the 14 days issue.

Further, point the judge to Bickford -Smith for the service of documents.

If a document was posted on Friday, service would be deemed Tuesday.

 

Just take a deep breathe and have a look for the docs I've suggested you need.

 

Also, check CB's posting on the enforcability of MBNA agreements -

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/609-mbna-agreementsapplication-forms

[underdog13]

Have you asked MBNA/Restons whether the account has been securitised?

[WelshMam2009]

If a document was posted on Friday, service would be deemed Tuesday.

 

Yes, but only if it was posted first class. Second class post would be Thursday for service (4 working days).

 

All of my MBNA DN's have been second class.

[underdog13]

Yes, but only if it was posted first class. Second class post would be Thursday for service (4 working days).

 

All of my MBNA DN's have been second class.

 

Mine too - some haven't even been sent by Royal Mail, but by another firm who takes even longer:)

[citizenB]

******* NOTICE FOR SUNFLOWER'S FAN CLUB*******

 

It has been agreed to remove all non essential posts from this thread , in order to make finding important information easier.

 

Unfortunately this will mean removing lots of "Good luck" and "Bump" posts. Both Sunflower and myself (the editing culprit) apologise for this.. because the posters will be receiving CAGbot messages:(

 

I will try and move all the "Good luck" posts to the original MBNA thread.

where SF's ambition to have the longest MBNA thread is on it's way to be fulfilled,

Edited June 16, 2009 by citizenB

[underdog13]

Found a very interesting post from Shakespeare (originally from Paul Walton) on PompeyFaith's Help thread. Have copied it here as I believe it may be relevant;

 

Could the prospective credit agreement be in breach of s59 of the CCA 1974 ?

 

Here's some thought provoking snippets from a successful defence on prospective agreements used by PaulWalton (He WON) :-

 

[begin quote]

2 On the 19th May 2005, the Defendant signed an Application Form for a credit card facility to be provided by Claimant. (Exhibit 1)

 

3 Provision of this credit facility was dependant upon a satisfactory credit record being obtained by the Claimant from one or more Credit Reference Agencies, and upon other lending decision criteria. The Application Form was therefore a pre-contractual agreement to enter into a prospective full-regulated credit agreement with the Claimant in the event that the Defendant’s application was successful.

 

4 The Application Form contained a clause, which included the following statement -

'Please issue me with an additional Barclaycard for use on the account(s) to which this application relates. I accept to be bound by the Barclaycard Conditions of use'. As such, the application purports to bind the Defendant to the terms and conditions of any prospective credit agreement with the Claimant.

 

5 Section 59 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 states that 'an agreement is void if, and to the extent that, it purports to bind a person to enter as debtor or hirer into a prospective regulated agreement.’ The Defendant therefore contends that this pre-contractual document, not being a regulated credit agreement in itself, and insofar as it purports to bind the Defendant to the terms of an actual prospective regulated credit agreement, is void and of no effect.

 

[end quote]

[diddydicky]

Found a very interesting post from Shakespeare (originally from Paul Walton) on PompeyFaith's Help thread. Have copied it here as I believe it may be relevant;

 

Could the prospective credit agreement be in breach of s59 of the CCA 1974 ?

 

Here's some thought provoking snippets from a successful defence on prospective agreements used by PaulWalton (He WON) :-

 

[begin quote]

2 On the 19th May 2005, the Defendant signed an Application Form for a credit card facility to be provided by Claimant. (Exhibit 1)

 

3 Provision of this credit facility was dependant upon a satisfactory credit record being obtained by the Claimant from one or more Credit Reference Agencies, and upon other lending decision criteria. The Application Form was therefore a pre-contractual agreement to enter into a prospective full-regulated credit agreement with the Claimant in the event that the Defendant’s application was successful.

 

4 The Application Form contained a clause, which included the following statement -

'Please issue me with an additional Barclaycard for use on the account(s) to which this application relates. I accept to be bound by the Barclaycard Conditions of use'. As such, the application purports to bind the Defendant to the terms and conditions of any prospective credit agreement with the Claimant.

 

5 Section 59 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 states that 'an agreement is void if, and to the extent that, it purports to bind a person to enter as debtor or hirer into a prospective regulated agreement.’ The Defendant therefore contends that this pre-contractual document, not being a regulated credit agreement in itself, and insofar as it purports to bind the Defendant to the terms of an actual prospective regulated credit agreement, is void and of no effect.

 

[end quote]

 

bugger- i was expecting a rendition from Hamlet!

[diddydicky]

Found a very interesting post from Shakespeare (originally from Paul Walton) on PompeyFaith's Help thread. Have copied it here as I believe it may be relevant;

 

Could the prospective credit agreement be in breach of s59 of the CCA 1974 ?

 

Here's some thought provoking snippets from a successful defence on prospective agreements used by PaulWalton (He WON) :-

 

[begin quote]

2 On the 19th May 2005, the Defendant signed an Application Form for a credit card facility to be provided by Claimant. (Exhibit 1)

 

3 Provision of this credit facility was dependant upon a satisfactory credit record being obtained by the Claimant from one or more Credit Reference Agencies, and upon other lending decision criteria. The Application Form was therefore a pre-contractual agreement to enter into a prospective full-regulated credit agreement with the Claimant in the event that the Defendant’s application was successful.

 

4 The Application Form contained a clause, which included the following statement -

'Please issue me with an additional Barclaycard for use on the account(s) to which this application relates. I accept to be bound by the Barclaycard Conditions of use'. As such, the application purports to bind the Defendant to the terms and conditions of any prospective credit agreement with the Claimant.

 

5 Section 59 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 states that 'an agreement is void if, and to the extent that, it purports to bind a person to enter as debtor or hirer into a prospective regulated agreement.’ The Defendant therefore contends that this pre-contractual document, not being a regulated credit agreement in itself, and insofar as it purports to bind the Defendant to the terms of an actual prospective regulated credit agreement, is void and of no effect.

 

[end quote]

 

may be wrong but it seems to me that clause 4 is asking for a SECOND CARDHOLDER to sign for a second card- could be wrong of course

[underdog13]

bugger- i was expecting a rendition from Hamlet!

Sorry to disappoint, but the defence quote might be more useful;)

 

An agreement or a pre-contractual application form? That is the question....

 

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous creditors or to take arms against a sea of debts and by defending end them.

 

To defend, perchance to win - 'tis a consumation devoutly to be wished.

 

Sorry, just couldn't resist:p

Edited June 16, 2009 by underdog13
added more nonsense - sorry Sunflower! ; )

[underdog13]

may be wrong but it seems to me that clause 4 is asking for a SECOND CARDHOLDER to sign for a second card- could be wrong of course

 

Agree 4 does seem to relate to a second cardholder, but I know there are many similar quotes on my application forms that refer to the main cardholder. I have long wondered about this - they refer you to the T&Cs, but I know I never received any T&Cs until my card arrived, so how could I agree to something I have never seen?

 

Well worth eveyone having another squint at their agreements, I would think.....

[diddydicky]

Sorry to disappoint, but the defence quote might be more useful;)

 

An agreement or a pre-contractual application form? That is the question....

 

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous creditors or to take arms against a sea of debts and by defending end them.

 

To defend, perchance to win - 'tis a consumation devoutly to be wished.

 

Sorry, just couldn't resist:p

 

perfect underdog - just perfect

[underdog13]

perfect underdog - just perfect

Why, thank you!.... [takes a thespian bow]

 

Now I'd better stop clogging up this thread - or I'm going to get cagboted:oops:

[sunflower99]

Agree 4 does seem to relate to a second cardholder, but I know there are many similar quotes on my application forms that refer to the main cardholder. I have long wondered about this - they refer you to the T&Cs, but I know I never received any T&Cs until my card arrived, so how could I agree to something I have never seen?

 

Well worth eveyone having another squint at their agreements, I would think.....

Hi Undedog and diddydickey!

Yes that is an interesting point As you say they often refer to terms that were clearly not present on same document when card was signed for!

[sunflower99]

Why, thank you!.... [takes a thespian bow]

 

Now I'd better stop clogging up this thread - or I'm going to get cagboted:oops:

yes sorry for that folks! :)but CitB was getting a bit concerned that my legal thread was getting to big for me to get help easily and that the length of it might deter some legal peep from gettinting involved to help on thread but i am sorry about it and hope no one offended,Snoops has told me to do some revision on some of the dn notice laws etc! \I wonder what the next stage will be?I suppose Restons get a note about my embarresssed defence and repond to it and we get AQ forms !

[underdog13]

no offence taken - completely understand:)

[B3rty]

Just answered your PM...

 

Berty

Edited June 19, 2009 by 42man
Deleted personal name....