Vanquis being unreasonable

[king123]

Maybe a bit too late now, but I think you should have used the services of an advice shop such as the CAB to set up a payment plan. In my experience they generally accept whatever offer (£x per month) the CAB considers to be fair. It also saves you the worry of having to deal with these people.

[bangbang777]

Maybe a bit too late now, but I think you should have used the services of an advice shop such as the CAB to set up a payment plan. In my experience they generally accept whatever offer (£x per month) the CAB considers to be fair. It also saves you the worry of having to deal with these people.

 

 

I don't see what the CAB could have done for me that I could not have done for myself. I would have told them the same thing that I am have been telling Vanquis, is that I am willing to pay x amount each month. I have sent in income and expenditure forms a few times.

 

So I cannot see how the CAB would have done things differently. In my opinion Vanquis have been more than unreasonable and I for one will be more than happy if they took me to court at least that would bring a close on this matter once and for all.

 

The judge would see how much letters and evidence I have offering to pay, in fact he might get so ticked off with them that he would have them wipe my debt off and pay me compensation for all the crap they put me through. (wishful thinking)

 

Thanks for your comments all the same mate!

[vint1954]

Hi BB,

 

I trust that you sent the letter in post 45 to Ist Cred.

 

You need to write to 1st cred, reminding them of this letter and stating that the account is in dispute with Vanquish.

 

you also need to add, that after seeking advice on the consumer credit act 1974, you are now aware that while the account is in dispute with the Origonal Creditor, they are not allowed to involve 1st Cred.

 

Ask them also to confirm their involvement with the account, if they are collecting on behalf of Vanquis or has the debt been sold to them while in dispute.

[bangbang777]

Thanks vint1954, I am not too sure what I done but I sent the letter in post 50 to 1st Credit and not the one in post 45.

 

Do you think I messed it up? and yes I believe that vanquis did sell the debt whilst still in dispute. I sent vanquis an official complaint as surprise advised in post 21. They replied to me last week to that complaint and said they are investigating this and will get back to me as soon as they have completed.

 

what next? Oh my head hurts now:(

[vint1954]

Thanks vint1954, I am not too sure what I done but I sent the letter in post 50 to 1st Credit and not the one in post 45.

 

Do you think I messed it up? and yes I believe that vanquis did sell the debt whilst still in dispute. I sent vanquis an official complaint as surprise advised in post 21. They replied to me last week to that complaint and said they are investigating this and will get back to me as soon as they have completed.

 

what next? Oh my head hurts now:(

I have slightly altered the first para of post 45, so send #45 as well.

 

Try to read a few of the other threads and you will soon get to understand the way these things work, but don't panic, you have not messed things up.

 

Vint

Edited August 20, 2009 by vint1954

[bangbang777]

Thanks vint1954,

 

Looks like I won't be needing to post that letter to 1st credit as I have just received a letter from them today which reads;

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxxxxx. A copy of our complaints procedure has been sent under separate cover.

 

I have investigated your complaint and can advise that the debt was not assigned to 1st Credit Ltd but that we are merely acting on behalf of our client, Vanquis Bank.

 

We were unawrae of the dispute which you had with Vanquis and consider that we were acting in good faith on the information provided.

 

The account has been placed on hold pending further instructions from our client.

 

 

Is this good news or what?

[vint1954]

Thanks vint1954,

 

Looks like I won't be needing to post that letter to 1st credit as I have just received a letter from them today which reads;

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxxxxx. A copy of our complaints procedure has been sent under separate cover.

 

I have investigated your complaint and can advise that the debt was not assigned to 1st Credit Ltd but that we are merely acting on behalf of our client, Vanquis Bank.

 

We were unawrae of the dispute which you had with Vanquis and consider that we were acting in good faith on the information provided.

 

The account has been placed on hold pending further instructions from our client.

 

 

Is this good news or what?

Hi BB,

 

It just means that they have gone back to Vanquis to confirm dispute.

 

I would imagine that you will hear from Vanquis next.

 

Just a point of advice, you do need to send letters out promptly in response to their replies.

[bangbang777]

Hi BB,

 

It just means that they have gone back to Vanquis to confirm dispute.

 

I would imagine that you will hear from Vanquis next.

 

Just a point of advice, you do need to send letters out promptly in response to their replies.

 

 

Thanks vint, I will do. It's just keeping up with what to write to hear. Too many chefs in the kitchen spoil the broth hey.

 

If I only had to deal with Vanquis it would be so much more simple, but does anyone know what that word means nowadays.

 

anyways thanks for the help mate:)

[vint1954]

Thanks vint, I will do. It's just keeping up with what to write to hear. Too many chefs in the kitchen spoil the broth hey.

 

If I only had to deal with Vanquis it would be so much more simple, but does anyone know what that word means nowadays.

 

anyways thanks for the help mate:)

Hi BB,

 

I know what you mean.

 

Keep posting on the replies and start new threads if you need help on other issues. You can always put a link to your new threads on this one.

 

Vint

[bangbang777]

I have received a response from Vanquis which is quite long and I am unable to scan up as the scanner does not work. This is basically what they have written and I would love any help or advice from you good people.

 

 

They say that they cannot accept that my account is in dispute, and can only accept it if they have fulfilled their obligations.

 

In respect of a fixed payment arrangement on your account I can see that you have previously offered to pay £5 a mth. Please note that in order for a fixed payment arrangement to be agree with us we would require payments to your account that are 2% of the outstanding balance, interest will continue to be applied but at a reduced rate of 1.99% and if you miss a payment you will be charged.

 

As your offer of £5 was not sufficient letters were sent to you advising the amount that we could accept.

 

If you are unable to meet the requirements of a fixed payment arrangement with us we would suggest that you contact a non fee charging debt management agency. As payments were not made to your account and a fixed payment arrangement could not be agreed, the standard collections process continued and as a result your account was transferred to 1st credit in June 08.

 

In light of the above, as your account is not in dispute as we have provided you with the correct information under section 78 of the CCA and arrangements for the repayment of your account were not made your account has been correctly referred to 1st credit. I would therefore suggest you contact them to discuss repayment of your account.

To date your account is in debit to the amount of £680

The amount currently payable by you is £680

 

I note previously that you have requested a refund of default fees. My collegue has sent you two offers in respect of this request, however you have declined these offers.

 

 

Right I really don't know who to contact now. I cannot believe Vanquis think I owe them £680, what a bloody joke. They are taking the #### so much and I am really getting crazy over this stupidity. I should write to them and 1st credit and tell them to take me to court because neither of them have got a brain between them. I would tell the judge how unreasonable Vanquis have been in accepting my offers, even though they are full aware of my financial position. I should ask them to issue court proceedings against me as soon as possible.

 

 

Anyone have a clue what I should do next please?

[surprise]

This is typical of Vanquis. I would write to Vanquis again with a copy to 1st Credit and say that could you please confirm that this is your final response as I now wish to proceed with a complaint to the FOS on your unreasonable behaviour when a customer is in financial difficulties. I would remind you of the Banking Code.

 

I have tried to come to an amicable arrangement with Vanquis to no avail so you have left me with no alternative but to pursue the matter.

 

When you have this you will need to download a complaint form from the FOS website and send with all your correspondence. It is worth it as it will cost Vanquis £500 when they start investigating.

 

The form asks what outcome you would like. Put - Charges refunded, interest frozen and reduce payments accepted.

 

Keep at it - keep your cool

[vint1954]

xxxxxx 2009.

Dear xxxxxxxxx,

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Re account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I write regarding recent communication regarding the above account.

I note that you still refuse to accept a payment level that is affordable to me, instead demanding a payment structure that I have advised on many occasions, that I cannot meet.

Further to my request under the above act, your attention is drawn to the fact that this account remains subject to a lawful serious dispute. On xxxxxxxx, by recorded delivery, I requested that you supply me a copy of the executed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78, a copy of this request is enclosed. To date you have failed to comply with my request, supplying only generic terms and conditions, which cannot be linked to any agreement which you claim that I have signed and a set of again unrelated terms and conditions. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I have to date only received terms and conditions from yourselves.

Contrary to your assertion, xxxxxxxx have not complied with the terms of CCA 1974 s78. The documents that you have supplied, do not comply with your duties to supply a “True Copy” of any executed agreement you claim to have been signed by me. As you will be further aware, an agreement is not executed, until signed by both parties, so the document that you have supplied, being an unrelated reconstruction, cannot be a True Copy of an Executed Agreement.

While this account remains in serious dispute, the relevant main points of the Law and OFT regulations while the account is in this state and xxxxxx remain in default are:

• You may not ask for payment against this account.
  
• I am not obliged to offer any payment against this account.
  
• You cannot register any data with a third party.
  
• You cannot take any enforcement action, including registering Defaults.
  
• You cannot pass the account on to a third party for collection.
  
• You cannot sell the account.
  

What is a true copy:

In a recent letter from the enforcement department of the OFT, the text below was quoted, explaining what is required.

“The copy of the executed agreement need not be an exact copy but it must be a ‘true copy’ and not some reconstruction of what the original might have been and it must contain the same terms as the original. Where the terms have been varied as provided for within the agreement, the copy of the original agreement must be accompanied by a document setting out the current terms, as varied. Certain details may be omitted from the original agreement eg the signature but the debtor must be in no doubt as to the true nature of his obligations under the loan.

 

Should no original agreement be in existence it is very hard to say that the copy the creditor offers to the debtor is, in fact, a true copy as there would be no original with which to compare it. In our view the onus of proof would be on the creditor to show that the copy is a true one and where none existed he may have difficulty discharging this. Neither should creditors suggest that a consumer has signed a credit agreement where they are unable to provide evidence to support this — to do so is likely to be a misleading action under Regulation 5 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (the CPRs) and would also constitute an unfair or improper business practice.”

 

I also refer you to the information below.

1. A valid credit agreement must contain certain terms within the signature document (s.60(1)(2) CCA 1974). These core terms are the credit limit, repayment terms and the rate of interest (SI 1983/1553 (6 Signing of agreement) which states that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document. (Column 2 schedule 6). s.61(1)(a) states the agreement must contain all the prescribed terms and be signed by both the debtor and on behalf of the creditor.

 

 

2. Further, s.127(3) CCA 1974 makes the account unenforceable if it is not in the proper form and content or improperly executed.

 

In Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd (2007) it was stated “In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties … and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s.61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement”.

 

2. The need for prescribed terms to be contained in the credit agreement is confirmed by the Author of the CCA1974 act, I quote ““As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97.

 

Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section 127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament without debate. I’m glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed that nobody’s human rights were infringed.” - 167 Justice of the Peace (2003) 773.”

I am now granting to you a further 7 days to produce a copy of an executable agreement. After that I will consider that the above matter is closed and that you will no longer pursue the alleged debt. If you are insisting that the non enforceable document, that you have supplied, is the only alleged agreement in your possession, then I would suggest that the best course of action would be to immediately set the balance of the above account number to zero.

I look forward to your response.

[katpuss]

Vanquis are a total pain and I'm having problems with them as well. I've now be forwarded to "Impact Collections" which is their in house debt collection department.

[surprise]

Vint please note this card is later than 2007 and S127 is not applicable.

[vint1954]

Hi Surprise, I should have read back to the begining of the thread.

 

The 2006 revisions came into force during 2007 & 2008. Depends on the date of the agreement and additionally if it was an online agreement.

[surprise]

Personally, I would go down the route of complaining to the FOS as this card is definitely outside of S127. Also complaining quite strongly about them breaking the banking code.

[bangbang777]

Thanks guys for that great advice. I will write back to them as surprise has advised.

Appreciate all the help and support

[bangbang777]

I have received a letter today from Vanquis and they state that the letter they sent to me on the 11th Sept 09 is their final response. I have written the above letter advised by vint1954 and sent it to 1st credit. I have had no response yet.

 

I don't know what to respond to vanquis though:confused:

[surprise]

Vint's letter shouldn't have been sent as it does not apply to you as your credit card is current.

 

You will now need to complete the FOS complaint form on line and send it with all correspondence. This doesn't cost you anything it will cost Vanquis £500.00. This form is really to complete and where it says what do you expect from it - interest frozen, charges refunded and reduced payments accepted.

[bangbang777]

Thanks surprise, just an update. God this is getting more and more complicated day by day

 

I just received a letter today from a company called CONNAUGHT COLLECTIONS UK LTD and this is what they have written, any help would be appreciated.

 

 

"We have been instructed by 1st Credit Limited who act on behalf of Vanquis Bank Limited to recover this overdue account and understand that you have already been supplied with the full details of the claim.

 

As we are unaware of any reason for payment being withheld, please forward settlement in full to this office within seven days from the date of this letter(30/09/09).

 

We should point out that in the event of non-settlement Vanquis Bank Limited reserves the right to issue legal proceedings if necessary. This would result in additional interest and costs being added to the balance as shown.

 

 

 

Any idea's what my response to these guys should be please anyone?

[surprise]

Hi - Connaught are 1st Credit. You really need to get on and fill in the FOS Complaint Form. I would write to Connaught and tell them that you are not happy with the response from Vanquis and as such a complaint has been sent to the FOS. You could also be flippant and say I would welcome the opportunity to discuss my case with a Judge given the fact that Vanquis have been totally unreasonable.

[babybear39]

Your complaint should go to TS and the OFT via consumer direct.

[bangbang777]

I sent off my complaint to the FOS approx 2 weeks ago. I received a letter today from Credit Account Recovery Limited and they have written:

 

 

Dear XXXX,

 

Having conducted preliminary searches our tracking divisionhave confirmed your residency at the above address. Therefore we are left with the only possible conclusion in that you are choosing to ignore our Clients repeated requests for payment.

 

They have now authorised us to proceed in whichever way we deem appropriate, within the boundaries of the law, to recover their monies. It is therefore imperative that you forward the full amount to the above address IMMEDIATELY by 1st class post.

 

Failure to do so could result in any one of these actions:

 

1. Instruct our local doorstep Collection Agent to make a personal visit to your premises.

2. Recommend to the Client to issue a Registered Default Notice against you.

3. Instruct our litigation specialists to commence legal action against you.

 

Should you wish to avoid any of the above or further action then do not ignore this letter.

 

Your payment can be made by telephoning our CREDIT-DEBIT CARD HOTLINE 0844 880 0880 or using CARS RBOS Internet Bank, or alternatively send a Cheque or Postal Order , quoting your reference number at all times and made payable to C.A.R.S. If you require a receipt then please include a S.A.E.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

 

So Vanquis have sold my debt to another DCA. Any advice please?

[surprise]

Write to them and say that you are surprised to receive their letter as this matter is already subject to investigation by the FOS. I would suggest therefore that you return any documentation to Vanquis unless you wish to receive a complaint against you for harassment.

[bangbang777]

Should I just ignore this letter and just leave it, see what happens?