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    • I found that the parkin attended has a car with CCTV camera on it, however as I stated earlier, it seems that he did not take video of my car otherwise they would have stated so in the SAR. parking car .pdf
    • The rules state that "approved devices may only be used in limited circumstances"  I was not a threat. I was not present. I did not drive away. I think he has not fulfilled the necessary requirements justifying issuing me a PCN by post therefore the PCN was issued incorrectly and not valid.  What are your thoughts?  
    • I have also found this:  D.2 Service of a PCN by post: 54) There are some circumstances in which a PCN (under Regulation 10) may be served by post: 1) where the contravention has been detected on the basis of evidence from an approved device (approved devices may only be used in limited circumstances) 2) if the CEO has been prevented, for example by force, threats of force, obstruction or violence, from serving the PCN either by affixing it to the vehicle or by giving it to the person who appears to be in charge of that vehicle 3) if the CEO had started to issue the PCN but did not have enough time to finish or serve it before the vehicle was driven away and would otherwise have to write off or cancel the PCN 55) In any of these circumstances a PCN is served by post to the owner and also acts as the NtO. The Secretary of State recommends that postal PCNs should be sent within 14 days of the contravention. Legislation states that postal PCNs must be sent within 28 days, unless otherwise stated in the Regulations. This from London Councils Code of Practice on Civil Parking Enforcement.  The question is what is an approved device? Certainly, he had the opportunity to place the ticket on my car and I didn't drive away.  I looked further and it seems that an approved device is a CCTV camera - It seems that the photos taken were not actual film but images and it is not clear if they are taken from a video or are stills. I'm guessing if it was moving images then the SAR would have stated this.    From the Borough of Hounslow website: "There are two types of PCN issued under the Traffic Management Act 2004, which governs parking contraventions. The first is served on-street by a Civil Enforcement Officer, who will observe a vehicle and collect evidence before serving the PCN either by placing it in a plastic wallet under the windscreen wiper, or by handing it to the driver. The second is a PCN served by post, based on CCTV footage taken by an approved device, which has been reviewed by a trained CCTV Operator."   From Legislation.gov.uk regarding approved devices: Approved Devices 4.  A device is an approved device for the purposes of these Regulations if it is of a type which has been certified by the Secretary of State as one which meets requirements specified in Schedule 1. SCHEDULE 1Specified requirements for approved devices 1.  The device must include a camera which is— (a)securely mounted on a vehicle, a building, a post or other structure, (b)mounted in such a position that vehicles in relation to which relevant road traffic contraventions are being committed can be surveyed by it, (c)connected by secure data links to a recording system, and (d)capable of producing in one or more pictures, a legible image or images of the vehicle in relation to which a relevant road traffic contravention was committed which show its registration mark and enough of its location to show the circumstances of the contravention. 2.  The device must include a recording system in which— (a)recordings are made automatically of the output from the camera or cameras surveying the vehicle and the place where a contravention is occurring, (b)there is used a secure and reliable recording method that records at a minimum rate of 5 frames per second, (c)each frame of all captured images is timed (in hours, minutes and seconds), dated and sequentially numbered automatically by means of a visual counter, and (d)where the device does not occupy a fixed location, it records the location from which it is being operated. 3.  The device and visual counter must— (a)be synchronised with a suitably independent national standard clock; and (b)be accurate within plus or minus 10 seconds over a 14-day period and re-synchronised to the suitably independent national standard clock at least once during that period. 4.  Where the device includes a facility to print a still image, that image when printed must be endorsed with the time and date when the frame was captured and its unique number. 5.  Where the device can record spoken words or other audio data simultaneously with visual images, the device must include a means of verifying that, in any recording produced by it, the sound track is correctly synchronised with the visual image.
    • Hearing took place today.  Case dismissed with costs awarded. Neither UKPC or a representative turned up.  Apparently they messaged the court on 7 May asking for their case to be considered on paper.  Never informed me, which was criticised by the judge as not following procedure.  I was really annoyed as I would have preferred for the case to be thrown out before the hearing, or at least face them in court and see them squeal.   They are just playing a numbers game and hope you blink 1st!   Ended up having to change my flight, but  the costs awarded softens the blow. Was asked to confirm it was my signature on both the witness statement and supplementary statement.  Wasn't asked to read them, said she could see my arguments made and the signs were insufficient and no contract formed. Took maybe 10 mins in total.  Judge did most of the talking and was best for me just to keep quiet or confirm any statements made. Happy to have won as a matter of principle and have costs awarded. Maybe not worth all the time and hassle for any newbies or the technologically challenged.  But if you are stubborn like me and willing to put in the time and effort, you can beat these vultures! I big shout out to everyone who helped on the thread with their advice and guidance, special mention to FTMDave, thank you sir!  Really appreciate everyone's efforts. All the best!
    • I plan to be honest to avoid any further trouble, tell them that the name should be changed to my official name
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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OH v Cap 1 & Rob Way *** WIN ***


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Hi car, the court order states that judge considers case suitable for mediation and there is a mediation form to be returned to mediation service.

 

I had read a post about costs and mediation, but don't know where.

 

Okey dokey, so they are recommending mediation, but not ordering it? I can't see how this links in with costs, but if we don't know where you've read it then we can probably park that.

 

You can try mediation, but aren't being forced in to it.

 

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There's a few ways you can go now. You can either;

 

* keep this to yourself, until you win, then pull this out of your pocket to show just how unreasonable they have been. If you're going to do this, I think a Without Prejudice letter is in order, pointing out the flaws in their claim, highlighting that you have 'grounds' to believe that they have acted unreasonably in bringing the claim and that you will bring all this to the attention of the Court when they are considering the question of costs when you go on and win/

 

By doing this will I not be giving them a run down of my defence?

Will this not prejudice my case?

Do I not mention the CO letter?

 

Sorrry if these are obvious, trying to think which always seems to raise more questions than answers!

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By doing this will I not be giving them a run down of my defence?

 

You don't have to give them chapter & verse - just refer to the defence you have submitted already eg. for the reasons stated in my defence of xxxx, I consider that you have no grounds for making this claim

 

Will this not prejudice my case?

 

How? You are sending it 'without prejudice'. It will not be shown to the court until after the outcome of the hearing when costs are to be decided.

 

Do I not mention the CO letter?

 

Of course. Isn't that why you are sending the letter?

You just need to mention that unless there is a CCJ in place they have no legal rights to apply for a CO & also draw their attention to the OFT Guidance. Then point out that you consider their behaviour in (a) bringing a unsustainable claim & (b) following up with an application for a CO is unreasonable & vexatious & that they may wish to discontinue. If they do not respond positively to your letter you will show it to the court when costs are to be decided.

 

If you are unsure about the wording, post it up here for comment before sending.

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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You'll need to tell them what's in your defence sometime, so sooner or later doesn't really matter as it won't change things

 

What you're doing by doing it this way is taking the game to them - hopefully they will capitulate.

 

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Hi everyone

Does a letter before action i have include any specific information?

Is this sufficient

'our client advises that you have ignored many requests for payment; they are now considering Court Action against you, unless you pay etc within 10 days.

Do not ignore, court action may increase amount owed plus court fees and costs.'?

This is the only reference to court action and was posted 16 days before court action began.

Thank you

Edited by cymruambyth
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Was it headed as a Letter before Action. I think it is usually the solicitor acting on behalf of the Creditor/claimant that sends them out.. not a DCA ?

 

TBH, DCAs, usually threaten Court action as a matter of course so how would you differentiate a genuine LBA from one of the usual template letters they send out.

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I would say no, not a LBA. I described something very similar in one of my witness statements as the first time the claimant intimated court proceedings (picked up wording from some case law that I can't think of which one at mo but let me know if it becomes relevant). Sure you are aware that Pre-Action conduct is found here. http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/practice_directions/pd_pre-action_conduct.htm

Hi everyone

Does a letter before action i have include any specific information?

Is this sufficient

'our client advises that you have ignored many requests for payment; they are now considering Court Action against you, unless you pay etc within 10 days.

Do not ignore, court action may increase amount owed plus court fees and costs.'?

This is the only reference to court action and was posted 16 days before court action began.

Thank you

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Hi cb

 

It was the solicitors acting for the DCA.

 

robway

I have read the Pre Action protocols and thought that the letter should be more specific, but as you are aware, this lot seem to get away with quite a lot that us LiPs are unable to!!!!!

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  • 5 months later...

Thank you to everyone whose help has been invaluable, bute especially foolishgirl who has guided me, educated my and held my hand!

WE WON today, due to the greed of Rob Way who would not accept our 2 offers of a full and final.

The point we won on was missing prescribed terms, assignment and DN were ignored though the DJ agreed that s69 interest was at the court's discretion and should not have been added earlier. I will give loads more information later today in the hope that they may help someone.

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First of all a big CONGRATULATIONS to Cy for today's result but let me just say, shadow, 'cos she's too modest to say so herself

 

congrats on winning the judge lottery this time

 

This was not down to drawing the right straw in the judge lottery, this was a determination by Cy to immerse heself in the CCA & the case law so she understood every point & then she could stand in court & throw any rubbish they flung at her straight back at them with knobs on it.

 

Cy will no doubt tell you the full story in due course but she should not just feel pleased with the result but immensely proud of herself.

 

You have my admiration Cy for triumphing in the face of adversity

 

:whoo:

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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Some bits that I learnt today that may help.

This was my OH's case but I had done all the work and had applied to be his Lay Representative; this was rejected as it only applies to people who are vulnerable; however when the DJ saw how useless OH was she let me present the case.

I had sent a N268 notice to prove but this was not applicable because the court order had not stipulated the production of documents.

 

The secret was that all the prescribed terms were not present. The opposition kept on mentioning Carey, but the DJ had read this and kept mentioning the prescribed terms. Anyone who goes to court needs to know Carey and have marked the relevant sections to both support their argument and counter the opposition.

Take copies of all cases and mark them I had quoted but was able to give copies of the cases to the DJ; this was Small Claims.

I had copies of all the relevant sections of the CCA and associated schedules which I gave the DJ to save her looking them up.

 

When you present your case, have each section as a seperate document, mine flowed nicely, unfortunately the DJ flowed differently from me, so my presentation could have been smoother.

 

I had all the arguments about DNs but Rankine was quoted to counter charges in the DN, 10 days was a mute point (I think because the DJ already knew the agreement wasn't enforceable), finally we differed on how the DN was laid out and the emphasis that was needed.

Finally the NOA, you do not need them for name changes, only company changes. Once again I think my DJ may have pushed this further but didn't need to.

S69 interest, I used the argument it is not applicable to the CCA, however it was countered that as the agreement was terminated it could be applied.

Following my recent failures, my strongest argument was the lack of prescribed terms. If this is applicable know it well and have supporting evidence. Either through ignorance or desperation, Rob Way kept on pointing out different things, you had used the card etc but the DJ kept saying BUT WITHOUT THE PRESCRIBED TERMS this does not count.

Also remember s127(3) applies to all agreements pre 2006, and although the solicitor wanted leave to apply for enforcement she was told this would fail.

I will post statements and letters when I have deleted personal information.

I hope that thi will help someone.

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Well Done Cym, really pleased for you and your other half :-)

 

Hadituptohere

I'm far from an expert, but learning all the time!!!!!

 

If i've been at all helpful please click my star.

 

Hadituptohere OH V Capital One, **WON**

Hadituptohere V Cabot, (providian/Monument/Barclaycard cc) - ** claim struck out ** due to non complaince of CPR, Wasted Costs applied for, Default Cost Certificate issued by Court, Warrant of excecution and CC Baliffs instructed...lol 😎

Hadituptohere V Cabot, (morgan stanley dean witter/barclays cc) - account in dispute, LBA sent to barclays, awaiting responce, no responce.

Hadituptohere V RBS, default removal x 2, case dismissed, judge used Balance of Probabilities against hard Evidence.

Hadituptohere OH v Santander, Santander issue claim in court, settled out of court via Tomlin, less solicitors fees and interest.

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First of all a big CONGRATULATIONS to Cy for today's result but let me just say, shadow, 'cos she's too modest to say so herself

 

 

 

This was not down to drawing the right straw in the judge lottery, this was a determination by Cy to immerse heself in the CCA & the case law so she understood every point & then she could stand in court & throw any rubbish they flung at her straight back at them with knobs on it.

 

Cy will no doubt tell you the full story in due course but she should not just feel pleased with the result but immensely proud of herself.

 

You have my admiration Cy for triumphing in the face of adversity

 

:whoo:

 

Fair enuff, I'm more than happy to be corrected :-)

 

S.

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Congratulations. I'm so pleased for you, especially after last time.

 

Did you ask for wasted costs?

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