bailiff Andrew James Enforcement CTAX debt at my door a few weeks ago

[hallowitch]

e-mail the council tell them that your offer of £10 per week has been refused tell them they want £80 per week and that if you don't pay this amount they said the will come and remove your goods

tell them that they will not put it writing that you have made this offer and that if you don't pay £80 they will remove your goods remind them that this levy may indeed be unlawful and they are using it against you to to try to make you pay an extortionate amount of money weekly and you know that if you agree to that amount your account will go into default ask them to send you a breakdown of your account including bailiff charges

 

if you don't want anyone to know i understand

 

but if you want to

how much was the liability order for

how much are the bailiffs charges if you know

 

1st visit

2nd visit

walking possession fee

levy fee

Edited June 1, 2009 by hallowitch

[tottys]

hi hallowitch dont realy mind ppl knowing how much i owe..

it started off at £841

visit 1 £22.50

levy fee £48.00

walking possesion £11.00

brining it to £922

i paid £80 off this but on the second letter there is no notice of further charges but the amount owing on this one is £1065..

hope you can understand this!!!

[hallowitch]

when the council send the breakdown of bailiffs charges you can bet that there are van fees on it tell them you offered £10 wk but at a push you could offer £15 remind them you are on benefits working tax credits are you one parent family

[hallowitch]

ask them for a copy of there code of practise when using bailiffs to collect council tax arrears

[Man in the South]

I think you have to be very very careful on this one... it seems that when the goods were levied your probably signed a walking possession - hence the added fees. If this is the case the bailiff can enter the property (by force if necessary) to remove goods that you have signed the walking possession for. Additionally, a levy in part is a levy in full and additional items CAN be taken exscept those exempt by statute - such as chairs to sit on, table to eat off etc. My advice would be to try to come to some kind of payment plan with the bailiff on a reasonable amount that you can afford to pay without going into default.

[tottys]

I think you have to be very very careful on this one... it seems that when the goods were levied your probably signed a walking possession - hence the added fees. If this is the case the bailiff can enter the property (by force if necessary) to remove goods that you have signed the walking possession for. Additionally, a levy in part is a levy in full and additional items CAN be taken exscept those exempt by statute - such as chairs to sit on, table to eat off etc. My advice would be to try to come to some kind of payment plan with the bailiff on a reasonable amount that you can afford to pay without going into default.

thanks for that so does it mean that they can take the chairs but not the acctual table ?????

as for coming to an aggrement i have tried today all i can afford is £10 or £20 and that is leaving me with nothing at all i know they say that the bailiffs bill has to come first but im sorry but my kids come before any of them....

[tottys]

when the council send the breakdown of bailiffs charges you can bet that there are van fees on it tell them you offered £10 wk but at a push you could offer £15 remind them you are on benefits working tax credits are you one parent family

sorry for not replying earlier but have spent all day in the drs....

right i do get child tax but that is very little and i mean that its sad what they awarded me..and i work 8 hours a week so all in all i dont get that much a month but my ex pays my rent and all the clothes for our children..but as he sometimes stays its easier not to claim anything as we have a few nosy neighbours...but i will be e mailing the council now

[tottys]

A claim is a little known document that when i worked in the business managed to stop nearly every job in it's tracks. It would mainly come from people who's ltd company was at their home, or if just the debtor didn't live there. It must contain amongst other things the important sentence: "I personally own all the goods at this address, nothing is owned by the company, it has no assets and is ceasing to trade" (Make sure name of owner of goods and address is on it plus signature and case number).

 

I would call this a Statutory Declaration. Am I right?

 

Most Stat Decs are witnessed by a solicitor. Is this a requirement with a Claim?

hi tomtubby you wrote on my thread about putting in a letter about all the things i had on hp is this what it is a claim letter???

[hallowitch]

yes tottys its proper name is a statutory declaration

[hallowitch]

did you ask the council to send you there code of practice for bailiffs collecting council tax

 

i found this its a post by B.A.Ts from 20th September 07

don't know if it will be any help to you but is an interesting read

 

The bailiff must at all times carry and provide photographic proof of their identity (County Court general certificate issued under Section 7 of the Law of Distress amendments Act 188:cool: when visiting a property to distrain. The bailiff must at all times make clear to the debtor the purpose of his visit and the fact that he is acting on behalf of, and, as agent of the Council. Visits to be after 8am and before 9pm, no visits on Sundays or bank holidays.

The bailiff must at all times carry the written authorisation of the Council, to be shown on request and must hand to the debtor or leave on the premises the relevant documentation including details of costs incurred and procedure, legislation (Reg. 45) relating to distress and any additional guidance notes. The debtor will be invited and is required to sign any walking possession agreement (which lists all goods distrained upon) at the time that the distress is levied, in presence of the debtor or the partner only after its meaning has been explained and understood by the debtor.

Only a bailiff properly vetted and trained by the authorised firm and under the control of a bailiff who is certificated by the County Court may levy distress or remove goods in respect of liability orders on behalf of the Council. At least 2 partners or directors of the firm must be members of Certified Bailiff Association (CBA) or Association of Civil Enforcement Agents (ACEA).

Bailiffs and employees, contractors and agents of the bailiff firm must be aware that they represent the Council in their dealings with debtors. They should at all times act lawfully and in accordance with the provisions of the Local Government Finance Act 1992. They should also act in a responsible, professional and courteous manner and be aware that their behaviour, appearance and attitude have a great influence on the success of the debt recovery process.

The bailiff must adopt a firm but correct attitude when dealing with the public, they must be polite and courteous and avoid being provoked by vexatious debtors. In the event of a breach of the peace occurring as a result of a bailiff visit, the Council must be debriefed of the circumstances as soon as practicable.

The bailiff must comply with Data Protection legislation where applicable and should be aware of the relevant Articles in Human Rights legislation.

Upon receipt of any instruction to levy distress, the contractor shall ensure that a visit is made to levy distress within 14 days from receipt of the instruction.

Where more than one Liability Order is held for a debtor, the bailiff where practicable will attend the property for all liability orders at the same time, with only one set of costs being made. 'First Call' and 'second call' visits must be made on different days.

If on attendance, contact is made with the debtor, the bailiff should attempt to recover the amount as quickly as possible, taking into account the circumstances of the debtor. Wherever possible, if payment is not made in full at the time of the first visit, the debtor should be given the opportunity to enter into a walking possession agreement or instalment arrangement (instalment arrangement at no cost to the debtor other than the direct cost of making a payment). Enquiries should be made as the eligibility of discount or rebate. Information regarding employers or benefit details should be requested.

Arrangements for payment of the total amount due can be agreed at the bailiff's discretion over a period of up to three months for Business Rates. Council Tax arrangements should be made over a period of up to six months but a period of up to 52 weeks can be considered if the debtor's circumstances warrant this. If the arrangement for payment offered is beyond these timescales and the bailiff considers it inappropriate to remove goods or there are exceptional circumstances the bailiff should refer back to the Council before agreeing to an arrangement exceeding these timescales.

The bailiff must take no action if it appears that no responsible adult is present at the debtor's address. If an adult is present the bailiff must attempt to establish their identity. If the debtor is unavailable the bailiff must ascertain when they will be available. No reference will be made to the nature or purpose of their visit. The bailiff should be aware of the sensitive and confidential nature of this work and should take care to ensure that information regarding the debtors circumstances are not passed on to or discussed with a third party. If children are present the debtor should be encouraged to ask them to leave the room. Any documents must be left, marked private and confidential, in a sealed, clearly addressed plain envelope.

 

The bailiff should at all times use his professional judgement to refer back to the Council if he considers that, due to the personal circumstances of the debtor, it would be inappropriate to proceed to levy distress. In particular, cases such as:

1. appears to be over 70 years of age and it appears may be easily confused
   
2. appears to be severely physically or mentally ill, severely disabled or suffering mental confusion
   
3. has young children and severe social deprivation is evident
   
4. is disputing liability or claims to have paid, applied for rebate, discount or any other relief not yet granted, recommend, levy distress and then report to the Council
   
5. is heavily pregnant
   
6. is in mourning due to recent bereavement (within three months)
   
7. is having difficulty communicating due to profound deafness, blindness or language difficulties
   
8. is unemployed and provides proof that they are in receipt of Income Support or Job Seekers Allowance (Income Based), payments from the Department of Works and Pension (DWP) and details are obtained of the debtors National Insurance number
   
9. is consulting his or her local councillor or Member of Parliament
   
10. long term sickness or serious illness including the terminally ill
    

Please note: Points 3, 5 and 8 do not apply to Business Rates.

Before attending with a van in order to remove goods, the bailiff must send to the debtor, a letter warning of the intention to send a van and also warning of the costs involved in such a van attendance. However, if there are circumstances that indicate the giving of prior notice may compromise the ability to remove goods (that is company about to go into liquidation or debtor about to abscond) then attendance with a van can be made without a letter being issued.

ln the event of the need to force entry to the debtor's premises, the bailiff must obtain the express permission of the Council's Representative before doing so.

When the debtors goods are removed and sold at public auction, the Council and the debtor must be provided with a full statement itemising the goods sold, the amount realised, a breakdown of the costs incurred and a statement of the amount subsequently outstanding or overpaid as appropriate. The debtor should be notified of the date, time and place of sale, to give the opportunity to make payment and return their goods. Any goods uplifted must be transported and stored with due care and attention whilst in their care, with relevant security and insurance provisions. The bailiff should not remove goods for sale unless it is anticipated that the sum realised will be sufficient to settle a reasonable proportion of the account outstanding to the Council (30% to 50%), including costs. Rule of thumb is that the value of the goods can be divided by 5 to give an approximate auction value.

Please note: For Business Rates in some cases you may still wish to proceed to remove if the value is less than 30 - 50%, i.e. so that ongoing trading ceases or if it is likely to become insolvent.

 

ln the case of Council Tax debts, no goods should be removed from sale which fall within the categories listed in (The Council Tax Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 (as amended) being:

1. basic clothing, beds, bedding and household linen
   
2. the main form of cooking - if the debtor has a cooker and a microwave oven, it would be in order to seize the microwave oven. If the debtor only has a microwave oven, this must not be seized
   
3. fFridges, freezers and essential room heaters
   
4. dining table and chairs
   
5. Washing machine, vacuum cleaner and iron
   
6. toys primarily for the use of any child who is a member of the debtor's household
   
7. articles reasonably required for the care or upbringing of a child who is a member of the debtor's household
   
8. medical aids or medical equipment reasonably required for the use of the debtor or any members of the debtor's household
   
9. articles which are required for safety reasons in the home
   
10. any goods bought with a Social Fund loan or grant
    
11. any items of a personal nature with a nominal or no cash value, for example, videos of family occasions, family photographs or pictures, etc.
    
12. any other items protected by law
    
13. such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary to the debtor for use personally by him or her in his or her employment or business
    

Please note: in the case of Business Rates 13 does not apply.

Only goods belonging to the debtor may be seized, goods subject to higher

[iwwahceo]

yes tottys its proper name is a statutory declaration

 

I really don't think it is, but oh well, call it what you will, a claim's a claim!

 

tomtubby, i'm upset about my PMs. I would have liked a response from you on that particular PM. :(

[tottys]

hi all had an e mail from the council and you was right hallowitch they have charged for a van £225...

am waiting for a means of earnings form off them now so with a little bit of luck even if they dont take the debt back maybe they can get the bailiffs to agree to £10 per week as they can see i simply cant afford £80

thanks so much for all you help you are all absolute stars on here!!!!;-)

[hallowitch]

have the council made any comment yet about the table and chairs on the Levey if you can get them to agree that they should not have been on the levy then they must remove all charges connected with it

if you cant i would question the amount they are charging for the van fee

it should be reasonable costs £225 is not reasonable costs

[tottys]

have the council made any comment yet about the table and chairs on the Levey if you can get them to agree that they should not have been on the levy then they must remove all charges connected with it

if you cant i would question the amount they are charging for the van fee

it should be reasonable costs £225 is not reasonable costs

no they have not said anything they were supposed to be contacting the bailif comp to see what they had put on the levey but nothing regarding that matter..i to think thats way to much for van fees i was thinking of phoning a few hire comps and seeing how much they charge to hire a van out..it said in the reply i got from the council it was with the intention of removing goods so i personaly think that unless they remove the goods they should not charge as that means that if they do come back and then remove the goods they are more than likely going to slap on another £225!!!

[hallowitch]

if they do come back they can charge this again but they must remove goods

 

getting that levy removed is you best bet ask the council why this has not been dealt with

if you can e-mail them a copy of the levy

[tottys]

dont know if its just me being dumb but i thought that the bailiff could not put on a van fee unless they actually took the goods...so please correct me if im wrong someone does this make the charges on my bill unlawful as they have charged £225 for a van fee they said it was for intention of removing goods..

need a reply as i have had another letter from them saying they are coming to take things now but i was hoping the council were helping me out as i have been speaking to them they have sent out a means to earnings ~(i think its called this) and they have told the bailiff that they had to enter in to another payment plan with me but they told me that my offer was not sufficient enough and that i had to pay the £80 per week which i just dont have what are my next steps i think that if i can prove that the charges are unlawful then i can get the Levey removed and the council will take it back...

please help again many thanks...

[tottys]

morning all .

have sent a means of earnings in to the council along with a photocopy of the levey that the bailiff done as i am still waiting for a reply about the table and chairs...im getting very mixed replys over this some ppl are saying that no way can they take the table and chairs and some are saying corse they can..

starting to get fed up now its realy starting to make me ill....

what would happen if i was to pay the council minus the £306 bailiff charges are the bailiff still entiteled to break in to my house and remove goods?????

how many times do you think i can e mail the council regrding this matter before they start saying i am harassing them??????

[tottys]

have just recived an e mail from the council and have been told that it is ok for them to take the table and chairs!!!!

so why would it say on nearly all the sites i have seen that they are exempt????

but at least the council are trying to help me now they have put everything on hold for 7 days untill they get my means of earnings form...

[catalice]

have you tried paying the council direct?

if you pay over the phone on the automatic thingy it can not be rejected

 

good luck

Cat x

[BlurredFX]

As I understand it, the bailiffs can levy on table and chairs, as long as they are not the only chairs you have to sit on. i.e. if you have a couch, they can take the dining room furniture.

[tottys]

am now trying to pay the full amount that i owe so the bill is for £1065 but that is with £306 bailiff charges so if i just pay the amount minus the bailiff charge staright to the council anyone knows what happens then will the bailiff still come and take my things of will the council deduct the first £306 and pay them?????

[hallowitch]

the council will send the bailiff his charges i know you never got a reply from your m.p. send him another e-mail and e-mail your local councillor

[Gravy Train Driver]

my advice is to hit him over the head with something hard and tell him to get a life, **** bags. No, really i am in the process of being threatened with "a visit" for a debt i owe, so all the best!

[tottys]

my advice is to hit him over the head with something hard and tell him to get a life, **** bags. No, really i am in the process of being threatened with "a visit" for a debt i owe, so all the best!

hahahaha like this one.....will wait for him upstairs and then say i thought it was a burgular lol...

(only joking)

[tottys]

morning all..

just a quick note to let you all know how im going had a e mail from the council this morning regarding my means of earnings form that i sent into them and they have said that as i smoke and have a tv that is rented and have to pay for a tv license they do not consider these to be priority debts (which of course i know) and as i can not be sent to prison for any of these i should stop paying for them so i can afford to pay the bailiff instead but he has told the bailiff company that i will now be paying £50 instead of the £80 and i have to phone them to arrange this....

this is not something i am looking forward to doing as every time i have phoned them they treat me like a piece of dirt and talk down to me and try and bully me in to paying more which they know i cant....

ahh feel a little better after that little rant lol